In the first video, the engine sounds really rattly. Is that just the quality of the video or is it really that loud at idle?
How is the power?
How is the power?
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- Thread starter
- #362
It is loud at idle but the camera seems to like that frequency so it sounds louder. Everytime I start the engine for someone to tell them it's loud, it doesn't seem that bad so maybe I'm getting used to it but you won't mistake it for anything but a diesel. I don't have any curtains in place in the gaps between the fender well and the frame and I imagine that would block some sound. As for power I'm still not gunning it because of the tranny modulation but it doesn't feel anything like the old 2F, much less labored on acceleration. I'm starting to wonder if the injection pump had been turn up some already because doing that will increase the rattle sound from a diesel.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
Dude .. it sound great .. please more vid under heavy load .. ! ( I love the sound of turbo diesel engines )
Sweet! So we will get to see it at the meeting Thrusday?
- Thread starter
- #367
Not so quick answer: (It was actually a deep question)
I am getting engine braking when I decelerate. I've experimented a little with downshifting like I would if shifting a manual. I found that like a manual I would downshift when it was appropriate (i.e. don't downshift into 2nd going 50mph) but that downshifting into 1st was too harsh. The shifts are more direct because there is no clutch to feather engine speed, once I move the shift lever it shifts. So I plan to shift into 1st only after I am already stopped. I haven't gone on the freeway yet and I don't have the lock-up wired up either so an impression on those will be forthcoming. This is all with a set vacuum on the modulator in the tranny. The modulator controls the line pressure and that determines how hard of a shift and clamping power on the clutch packs in each gear; depending on which clutch pack(s) are activated will determine which gears are engaged.
I just got my parts today that I am going to use to get a vacuum source and regulate that source according to engine load. In other words, an electric vacuum pump will provide a vacuum source and a regulator valve will be hooked up to the throttle on the injection pump and will vary that vacuum depending on the position of the throttle arm. This vacuum signal will be hooked up to the modulator installed in the valve body that replaced the force motor and will mimick the engine being under load changing the line pressure to get the appropriate shift firmness while driving. This will require some tuning but I have some target vacuum numbers to start with. I originally thought I could run with full line pressure all the time but was told otherwise and now see that the shifts would be too firm for most of the driving. Once I get it dialed in I think I am really going to like it. There is only one other person who has done the same thing with his 4L80 that I know of and he really likes it. The experimentation continues.
I am getting engine braking when I decelerate. I've experimented a little with downshifting like I would if shifting a manual. I found that like a manual I would downshift when it was appropriate (i.e. don't downshift into 2nd going 50mph) but that downshifting into 1st was too harsh. The shifts are more direct because there is no clutch to feather engine speed, once I move the shift lever it shifts. So I plan to shift into 1st only after I am already stopped. I haven't gone on the freeway yet and I don't have the lock-up wired up either so an impression on those will be forthcoming. This is all with a set vacuum on the modulator in the tranny. The modulator controls the line pressure and that determines how hard of a shift and clamping power on the clutch packs in each gear; depending on which clutch pack(s) are activated will determine which gears are engaged.
I just got my parts today that I am going to use to get a vacuum source and regulate that source according to engine load. In other words, an electric vacuum pump will provide a vacuum source and a regulator valve will be hooked up to the throttle on the injection pump and will vary that vacuum depending on the position of the throttle arm. This vacuum signal will be hooked up to the modulator installed in the valve body that replaced the force motor and will mimick the engine being under load changing the line pressure to get the appropriate shift firmness while driving. This will require some tuning but I have some target vacuum numbers to start with. I originally thought I could run with full line pressure all the time but was told otherwise and now see that the shifts would be too firm for most of the driving. Once I get it dialed in I think I am really going to like it. There is only one other person who has done the same thing with his 4L80 that I know of and he really likes it. The experimentation continues.
- Thread starter
- #368
weekly update
DMV experience for the Portland OR metro area:
I showed up thursday morning and was at the counter within 5 minutes! I told the guy that I now have a diesel engine in my landcruiser and that I need to change the fuel type on my title. He wasn't sure how to do that so he disappeared for a couple of minutes to find out. He came back and then asked an older lady who probably had been working there for a while and she told him to fill out a "Title correction" form. He wrote on that to change the fuel type on my title from gasoline to diesel. I asked if he needed to see or hear the diesel and he said no. After that I needed to re-register to get tags. We filled out the normal form except he checked the diesel box instead of gas. I then had to go to the DEQ (portland's emission testing division) because I was not GVW8500 which are exempt. I drove to the facility and waited in line. I showed the guy the form I had that said to check for diesel emissions. There was a attendant there that was interested in my conversion and asked a few questions and ended up taking over the testing. They checked the VIN and then stuck a sniffer up the tailpipe. The attendant also asked what year the engine was. I told him it was a '92 and that I could open the hood if he wanted to see the EPA tag. He told me that all they care about in the conversion is that it's the same year or newer than the chassis. There seemed to be no problem with it going from gas to diesel. For the sniffer test he had me bump the rpm to ~900 and then to ~2000. I have no working tach yet so I guessed by sound. For the sniffer I was in the green the whole time, whatever they were testing for (I think it was for CO emissions). I was warmed up before I went so no visual smoke either and was running B5 that I got at a shell station so pretty much regular diesel. Then he said that it was kind of loud and that he was going to test for dBs. This is what I failed.
He tested right behind the front driver side tire and then behind the tailpipe. Permissible dB allowance is 93dB. I was running at 101dB. The test was done reving the engine and the bay did seem to amplify the sound some. So the part that I was worried about (changing gas to diesel) was not what I need to worry about now. I went back to the DMV and was told to hang on to the paper work for when I get it taken care of. I got a trip permit that lasts for 21 days so I could drive it to and from work.
I did some quick searching but will do more this week to find products that absorb sound inside the engine bay. A product called MotorMat looks promising. Then I'll need to find a muffler that is quiter. I used the stepvan's muffler and really don't think it quiets much. I had planned to do more soundproofing and run a different muffler anyways so this just moves those to the priority list.
I did not have skirts between the fender well and the frame so I made some. The old ones had fallen apart. About 2 years ago on a trail I came acoss what looked like a truckers mud flap that had been ripped off a trail rig. I picked it up for two reasons: 1 to clean up the trail and 2 because I thought I could use it for something later. This was the perfect use so I cut out some cardboard to get the shape, traced that shape and cut out a rubber piece.
Passenger side piece.
Passenger side skirt installed.
The driver side is in two pieces due to the steering box. Here's the front piece.
Here is the back piece.
Doing that probably dropped 2 dBs. If whatever product I use doesn't get me all the way I'll end up making a skirt to go around the bottom of the engine for dB testing.
I was thinking that my injection pump may have been turned up some but at the cruiser meeting last thursday night the other 4bt FJ60 was there and we parked side by side to do a sound comparison test and they sounded the same so I don't think my pump has been tweeked (I know his hadn't).
I did get my parts last week for the tranny. This is the vacuum regulator from a GM diesel that will vary the vacuum depending on the throttle position. Nothing has been hooked up yet so these are just product pics.
For vacuum I'll be using a 99-2000 ford powerstroke electric vacuum pump. It's just a positive and a negative wire to hook up.
To give me some kind of bumper since I am driving it around to find out what I need to address I slapped on the old one. Not pretty but I won't get to my front bumper built for a little bit so this will give cops one less reason to pull me over.
The brackets are super simple.
DMV experience for the Portland OR metro area:
I showed up thursday morning and was at the counter within 5 minutes! I told the guy that I now have a diesel engine in my landcruiser and that I need to change the fuel type on my title. He wasn't sure how to do that so he disappeared for a couple of minutes to find out. He came back and then asked an older lady who probably had been working there for a while and she told him to fill out a "Title correction" form. He wrote on that to change the fuel type on my title from gasoline to diesel. I asked if he needed to see or hear the diesel and he said no. After that I needed to re-register to get tags. We filled out the normal form except he checked the diesel box instead of gas. I then had to go to the DEQ (portland's emission testing division) because I was not GVW8500 which are exempt. I drove to the facility and waited in line. I showed the guy the form I had that said to check for diesel emissions. There was a attendant there that was interested in my conversion and asked a few questions and ended up taking over the testing. They checked the VIN and then stuck a sniffer up the tailpipe. The attendant also asked what year the engine was. I told him it was a '92 and that I could open the hood if he wanted to see the EPA tag. He told me that all they care about in the conversion is that it's the same year or newer than the chassis. There seemed to be no problem with it going from gas to diesel. For the sniffer test he had me bump the rpm to ~900 and then to ~2000. I have no working tach yet so I guessed by sound. For the sniffer I was in the green the whole time, whatever they were testing for (I think it was for CO emissions). I was warmed up before I went so no visual smoke either and was running B5 that I got at a shell station so pretty much regular diesel. Then he said that it was kind of loud and that he was going to test for dBs. This is what I failed.
He tested right behind the front driver side tire and then behind the tailpipe. Permissible dB allowance is 93dB. I was running at 101dB. The test was done reving the engine and the bay did seem to amplify the sound some. So the part that I was worried about (changing gas to diesel) was not what I need to worry about now. I went back to the DMV and was told to hang on to the paper work for when I get it taken care of. I got a trip permit that lasts for 21 days so I could drive it to and from work.
I did some quick searching but will do more this week to find products that absorb sound inside the engine bay. A product called MotorMat looks promising. Then I'll need to find a muffler that is quiter. I used the stepvan's muffler and really don't think it quiets much. I had planned to do more soundproofing and run a different muffler anyways so this just moves those to the priority list.
I did not have skirts between the fender well and the frame so I made some. The old ones had fallen apart. About 2 years ago on a trail I came acoss what looked like a truckers mud flap that had been ripped off a trail rig. I picked it up for two reasons: 1 to clean up the trail and 2 because I thought I could use it for something later. This was the perfect use so I cut out some cardboard to get the shape, traced that shape and cut out a rubber piece.
Passenger side piece.
Passenger side skirt installed.
The driver side is in two pieces due to the steering box. Here's the front piece.
Here is the back piece.
Doing that probably dropped 2 dBs. If whatever product I use doesn't get me all the way I'll end up making a skirt to go around the bottom of the engine for dB testing.
I was thinking that my injection pump may have been turned up some but at the cruiser meeting last thursday night the other 4bt FJ60 was there and we parked side by side to do a sound comparison test and they sounded the same so I don't think my pump has been tweeked (I know his hadn't).
I did get my parts last week for the tranny. This is the vacuum regulator from a GM diesel that will vary the vacuum depending on the throttle position. Nothing has been hooked up yet so these are just product pics.
For vacuum I'll be using a 99-2000 ford powerstroke electric vacuum pump. It's just a positive and a negative wire to hook up.
To give me some kind of bumper since I am driving it around to find out what I need to address I slapped on the old one. Not pretty but I won't get to my front bumper built for a little bit so this will give cops one less reason to pull me over.
The brackets are super simple.
Last edited:
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Got to see this last Thursday in person.... Man o Man... its perdy and is way nicer in person than the pictures can show.
- Thread starter
- #372
I think being in a band playing shows helps with it not being so loud!! i.e. hearing loss. Seriously, I think it is bearable and am more than willing to trade some noise for the kind of power and durability I'll get out of it. Again, I don't have any carpet in the cab and while the sound deadener helps I'm sure a combination of deadener and carpet would make most happy. If you can't stand the sound of a diesel, this is not your engine. I like the sound so it's not a problem for me plus I really like hearing that turbo spool. Once I get the cab closed up I'll be able to give better feedback on interior volumn; I still have the tranny access panel open and a hole or two in the firewall and floorboard so sound leaks in through there. Besides all that, I still need to be compliant with DEQs testing so I will have to cut down the dBs. Frankly I was suprised to find out I hit 101 dBs and wonder if the drive through bay had any affect on the sound reverberating.
x2 Such a cool rig... Little noisy, tho
(BTW- I'm currently running no exhaust... at all. I'm a bit louder!)- Thread starter
- #374
I've been doing my research and found that good hood liners are expensive. I started looking into the marine application and found some promising products at a resonable price and found an outfit in Seattle, Washington that has some products I ended up ordering. These 4bts are also used in the marine application and when I called the place he knew the engine. I decided to follow his recomendation on products and dropped him $200. I'll be getting 10 sheets of dexdamp ($6 a sheet) and 2 sheets of Barrier 104 ($70 a sheet). That will bring me up to about $350 spent on sound control products. This is still below what can be spent on the amount of sound control that I'm covering so I don't think this is excessive at all. If it were a trail rig only then I probably wouldn't care but with long trips planned I don't mind spending a little $$ for a more comfortable cab.
HamiltonJet Noise and Vibration Control Products
Now on to finding a diesel silencer/muffler.
HamiltonJet Noise and Vibration Control Products
Now on to finding a diesel silencer/muffler.
Nice to know, How big is a sheet of either? Also, is the Barrier 104 what you plan to line the hood with? And do you plan to put the dexdamp on the floors/firewall/frontwheelwells?
Reason for asking is that i plan to get mine as quite as possible in my fj40 when the hard top is on, and i dont want to have carpet or anything in the cab thats going to hold moisture and remain wet.
Reason for asking is that i plan to get mine as quite as possible in my fj40 when the hard top is on, and i dont want to have carpet or anything in the cab thats going to hold moisture and remain wet.
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- Thread starter
- #376
It was recommended to use the dexdamp on flat metal surfaces. It just dampens the vibs. The sales guy originally suggested to line the engine bay with that and see how it turns out but I only want to go to DEQ one more time and pass the noise test so I got the barrier as well. The barrier 104 is what will absorb the sound. So the application goes dexdamp on the hood, fender wells, and sides of the fender (I already lined the firewall with other stuff or that would need to be done too); this is all in the engine bay. Once the dexdamp is down then line the hood with the barrier. If I have some barrier left over, which I should, I'll start adding it around the engine bay starting on the IP side since that's the loudest side.
The dexdamp are smaller and I don't know the exact size (I should by the end of the week
) but the barrier is 32"x54". I suspect I'll have some dexdamp left over too and will use the rest by lining the inside of the firewall (at least where I can reach without taking the dash out) and the inside of the doors. I still have the OE firewall mat so I'd try to put it under that. It just depends how much I'll have left over. He said that once the dexdamp is applied it takes some serious caustic stuff or grinding it to get it off so size the pieces first before sticking them on.
The dexdamp are smaller and I don't know the exact size (I should by the end of the week
) but the barrier is 32"x54". I suspect I'll have some dexdamp left over too and will use the rest by lining the inside of the firewall (at least where I can reach without taking the dash out) and the inside of the doors. I still have the OE firewall mat so I'd try to put it under that. It just depends how much I'll have left over. He said that once the dexdamp is applied it takes some serious caustic stuff or grinding it to get it off so size the pieces first before sticking them on.
Noise if gonna be an issue in Bob.
Most importantly is the noise that I am getting out of my fuel pump (intank, but the tank is inside the truck)
Please let us know how it turns out..
Most importantly is the noise that I am getting out of my fuel pump (intank, but the tank is inside the truck)
Please let us know how it turns out..
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
Dude .. question
How much for the powersmoke vacc pump . ?
If I will be in your boots ..
start with the sound proofing items for the engine bay, but let the mufflerr for the last .. I don't believe the muffler make any diference at all .. coz the Turbo absorb much ( or all ) of your exhaust sound ..
How much for the powersmoke vacc pump . ?
If I will be in your boots ..
start with the sound proofing items for the engine bay, but let the mufflerr for the last .. I don't believe the muffler make any diference at all .. coz the Turbo absorb much ( or all ) of your exhaust sound ..- Thread starter
- #379
Mace, will do. They will most likely do a dB check once I go back so I should have some actual numbers I can share. If you plan on running carpet in Bob then these dexdamp sheets might be up your alley. Maybe something like a marine engine box that's insulated is something you could build to cover up the tank.
Tapage, Good idea. I will just research mufflers/silencers but wait until I get my sound deadening installed before I buy anything. It's suppose to be here by thursday so I should be able to get the stuff in by the weekend.
Maybe I could get a little video for exhaust sound because it seems like a queiter muffler could help, might be fun to get a face full of diesel exhaust, I need a tan anyways. The Ford PS vacuum pump I got at a shops cost which was $95. It will cost more without a connection (someone who can get it at shop cost).
Tapage, Good idea. I will just research mufflers/silencers but wait until I get my sound deadening installed before I buy anything. It's suppose to be here by thursday so I should be able to get the stuff in by the weekend.
Maybe I could get a little video for exhaust sound because it seems like a queiter muffler could help, might be fun to get a face full of diesel exhaust, I need a tan anyways. The Ford PS vacuum pump I got at a shops cost which was $95. It will cost more without a connection (someone who can get it at shop cost).
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
Thanks .. I'm with the old idea of the electric vacc pump .. just to be free ( mine it's behind my alternator ) and place more amps alternator ..
If you check my turbo videos ( ya I know are not the same engine and not the same turbo .. but the same concept ) you will notice the low sound ..