F and 2F engines: Chevrolet influence?
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brian
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Close but not quite.
They are based on a Chevy engine from the 30s.
They are based on a Chevy engine from the 30s.
thebigredrocker
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middlecalf
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I didn’t know they made FJ’s back in ‘72. I would have thought that’d impacted market share for their FJ40’s.
AZMoonshadow
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I own an '70 FJ-40 and a 1953 International R-110 PU. Both have straight six engines. They are almost a mirrored copy of each other. The R-110 had a 100 hp and 6.5:1 compression. According to Wikipedia, "the F engine was loosely based on the 1939-63 G.M.C. L6 OHV 235 engine but with a taller deck (rather than the similar but smaller Chevrolet 1937-63 Gen-2 L6 OHV engine), and built under license. The cylinder head and combustion chamber is derived from the Chevrolet L6 OHV "stovebolt" engine, slightly scaled up. The general idea was consumers would feel comfortable with the engine since it was a familiar design and had a proven track record. None of the bottom end of the engine is interchangeable with these engines."
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The BJ auctioneers are hucksters whose sole job is to maximize bids.
The F engine is based on the 270 GMC inline six, not the ubiquitous 235 Chevy 6.
The F engine is based on the 270 GMC inline six, not the ubiquitous 235 Chevy 6.
I was at the machine shop and had a Chevy 292 block side by side with an F block........Toyota6 Looks ALOT beefier all around than the big Chevy truck6.
If you read history , somewhere they made the F engine for military mechanics to readily understand it. The details are the difference. Metric sizes and better overall construction. Ever wonder why USA never got diesel FJ40's ?
brian
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Because there was no need for them here.
Clean gas was and is available everywhere. no one was going to buy a truck that was nearly twice as expensive as a jeep and have it be twice or better slower than one.
There is truth to that, however, if they were OFFERED here , believe me , some would have been purchased. Back in those days , even up until 2000, diesel was always much cheaper that gasoline. Today, diesel is actually more expensive than gasoline. For some reason I think there was more to this than the consumer. A consumer will always buy things no matter what. Since Toyota was already making them , why not offer them here. Also, Canada got them and they sold a lot. Some more here than that.
Living in the Past
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Wasn't until 79 when Toyota introduced the 4X4 mini truck and Toyota started to phase out the FJ40 did Toyota go crazy with pricing to the point it was double that of a CJ7. During the seventies and eighties Toyota was big on being a fuel efficient car company in US market. The mini 4X4 fit the bill better than the FJ40. Besides good clean gas we had plenty of paved roads verses third world countries. Toyota kept the 60 series that has evolved to the 200 series today. But it's was as their flagship not a vehicle that it marketed to the masses. Average person could not afford one much less risk damaging it off road.
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The 292 is a tall deck 250, which is the "modern" Chevy inline six that replaced the archaic 235 & 261. It is a very lightweight, modern casting, uses lightweight SBC rods, lifters, stamped rockers, etc.
No answer to the "why did Toyota not sell BJ40's here". There must be an answer to this, other than we have clean gas and no need. Most of the Earth , Europe, Canada, etc.. was as we were , and they have the Toyota diesels. Somehow I think insider stuff.
Perceptions of US consumers. Diesels were seen as slow, under powered and smokey. Americans wanted to zip around on the new interstates in cars that looked like they were form the future where as many Europeans were a) living modest lives amidst the recovery from WW2 and b) largely did not have anything close to the infrastructure of today until after the formation of the EU so top end speed was not as much a concern. This is even more true in South America, Asia, Australia and Africa where roads were often not as developed. Also US emissions regulations were for a long time skewed against diesels on less heavy vehicles and it was not worth the modifications over and above Euro and Asian regs to comply for a customer base that had a negative perception already. That is what happens when you appoint lobbyists to regulatory commissions.
Personally I love diesels. To this day one of my favorite vehicles was a torquey 6 speed corolla diesel RHD I rented in Ireland. It was absolutely perfect for those old narrow roads.
When the six in my 70 FJ40 gave out I considered a 292 but a guy with a lot more knowledge than me said the 292 did not hold up well.
Any credence to that?
I had a friend back in the day who had a 63 and he swapped in a 292 Chevy six. I was told it was essentially a bolt in exchange but that was many years ago so I may be wrong. He ran the 292 for many years without problems.
Living in the Past
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Believe the lack of a BJ40 goes back to the same reason we haven't seen a diesel Tundra, emissions. California was leading the way and by 76 the 2F had it own manifold in California. Leaded gas was on it's way out. I bought a 73 Monte Carlo with California emissions so emissions were already around when the first BJ40 was made 2/74.
Yup. And the ones we did get turned a lot of people off to them, especially naturally aspirated.
i dont think it was patterned after the chevy my opinion is the gmc 270 .i have both engines and they are close .years ago i used the water proof ignition from an m211 on a 65 fj40 bolted right in plugs and all. in 64 or so the engines were almost identical timing cover and valve cover .just my opinion based on having both engines the 270 gmc engine was used in the 6x6 trucks during ww2
Living in the Past
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What diesels were those? Only remember a few in the small pickups that were never good for towing. My parent bought mini motor home on a Toyota one ton chassis that to me was a dead trap. Have a trailer made from a early seventies Hilux. The spring in the rear as very light duty compared to a FJ40 from the same period. Had a friend who bought a new Datsun pickup in 1974. We went wood cutting and is rear spring inverted before the wood was piled to the top of the bed. My 68 FJ40 was stacked to the top and springs never moved. He traded it in on a new 75 FJ40. He bought one of the first ones imported to LA. Think it was the whole truck not just a weak diesel why it wasn't popular. I remember there was the Toyota pickup, Datsun pickup, Ford Courier made by Mazda and the Chevy Luv made by someone company in Japan (Mitsubishi?). Toyota won out and has ruled the now mid size truck market. But those trucks do not even compare to the Tacoma today. But if you count Hino Motors Toyota has had diesels here for a long time.
