Experiencing the RadFlo 2.5" on LX450

[Delancy]

The remote reservoirs are not absolutely necessary unless you're doing sustained high speeds off road.

It's a 450, not a 40.

Radflo's on sale at Metaltech

 

[sleeoffroad]

So the above posts summarize why I was motivated to find a solution. I talked to Slee few months back, but Christo wanted me to measure stuff, take the spring off and I just didn't feel like doing it.

Ramni, I am happy you found a solution, but I feel I just need to clarify this a little. You spent a lot of time working on a custom bump stop solution on your truck to maximize travel. You even put those bump stops out for sale. Since I knew this, when we spoke about shocks we wanted to get the measurements what the maximum compressed length is that you could have for a shocks installation given your specific setup. Hence the request for measurements.

I just felt your would be better served by optimizing the shock dimensions if you are going to buy a set of custom shocks. We could have just supplied generic length shocks for a 4" lift, but given that you spent all the time tuning the suspension I thought you would like to get the best shock setup in terms of length.

Are your Radflo's matched to your suspension travel or are they just a standard length?

Our request for more information was simply to provide a better solution and not just do be difficult.

 

[rhyary]

Christo,
Duly noted. It was not meant to comment on your shop, but on my willingness to go measure.
Your comment about my brackets is interesting and does show how we, the consumers, are not consistent with our purchasing habits.

When I did the work on my brackets, I had the time to spent on designing a product, finding manufacturing facility and even had the time to paint those brackets in my basement (multiple coats of paint)

When I was looking for solution for the OME harshness, I had the time to be annoyed by the ride, but not the time to go out and do all the work requires to get it right.

So although I am very happy with the ride, I still have to do the articulation test on it. Since I have not been as thorough about that part, I am hoping for the best.

The good news: I still love your 4" springs 3 years and counting.

 

[NateZ]

The remote reservoirs are not absolutely necessary unless you're doing sustained high speeds off road. The IFP smooth body is just as good and will give the same performance on and off road. We are also a Radlo dealer and have worked directly with Radflo to get the shocks developed for the 80 series

Did you mean to say that in your experience the 80 series "Emulsion" shock is as good as a remote reservoir in performance and comfort?

Correct me if I am wrong, but you do not offer an IFP for an 80 (probably because of lack of room for 10"+ travel). My understanding is that they are quite different and that emulsion does not really compare to an IFP (body or remote) for off road use.

 

[Delancy]

IFP=internal floating piston. Freeflow is what Radflo's is coined. Similar to emulsion, except the piston provides a barrier between the oil and N2.

In the second statement, I believe you're referencing an "IBP" or internal bypass valve, which is marketed by King, but don't know that the function of is proprietary to only King.

This should direct to portions relating to shock design, terminology, blah, blah, blah. Doesn't include all aspects being discussed here, but enlightening, nonetheless.

Excerpts from Billa Vista's Coil Over Bible

 

[rhyary]

This is a stretch of a 30mph Road I do everyday on the way to work. It is continuously broken up for 300 meters.
The OME would absorb the bumps in a soft way, like going up and down with the wave in the ocean. The bigger imperfections, not quite pot holes, would transmit a very harsh shudder into the cabin. I hated starting everything like that. To add insult to injury, toward the end of the road where the light is, even smaller bumps would give me the wake up call (fade??).

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[rhyary]

Detail of one horizontal bump that every morning would shake my teeth.

Now with the RadFlo, again at 30mph, there is no wave motion on the small bumps. They are being more heard then felt. And the sensation is of a small thud. The big imperfections are been felt same way. A lauder thud, a rubbery feeling, done and over with in one instance.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[rhyary]

This road is just as bad as the 30mph road. But it is a 55mph. Again, it is something I drive everyday to work.
The OME would punish you continuously on this road. The bumps will throw you up and down in your seat and the cabin would shudder on those bumps. In other words, at a faster speeds, the OME were not fast enough to absorb the same bumps it did OK at 30mph. I played with tires pressure from 32psi to 40psi to get better ride but it did not help.

Now with the RadFlo it is a continuously rubbery thud, thud, thud, thud. No drama.

Please take into consideration, I listen to public radio in the morning. So if you are into Heavy Metal at full volume, the OME might be just fine for you.

Hope this help any one making their own decisions. Some are into turbo and supercharging. I am into suspension.

 

[Delancy]

I am into suspension.

Me, too.

With the OMEs did you ever notice a bucking during the butt dyno test? Has that subsided?

 

[LT]

Did you mean to say that in your experience the 80 series "Emulsion" shock is as good as a remote reservoir in performance and comfort?

Correct me if I am wrong, but you do not offer an IFP for an 80 (probably because of lack of room for 10"+ travel). My understanding is that they are quite different and that emulsion does not really compare to an IFP (body or remote) for off road use.

I was making a general reference about IFP shocks versus remote reservoir. But in the case of the 80 series you are correct it is an emulsion shock for the smooth body. For comparison both on road and rock crawling/technical trail use you will find they perform the same. Where you will see a difference is the high speed bumpy roads, desert, etc where the remote reservoir/IFP will out last the emulsion hands down. That is due to the fact that the emulsion shock mixes the nitrogen and oil together while the IFP/Remote Reservoir keep the nitrogen and oil separate.

IFP=internal floating piston. Freeflow is what Radflo's is coined. Similar to emulsion, except the piston provides a barrier between the oil and N2.

In the second statement, I believe you're referencing an "IBP" or internal bypass valve, which is marketed by King, but don't know that the function of is proprietary to only King.

This should direct to portions relating to shock design, terminology, blah, blah, blah. Doesn't include all aspects being discussed here, but enlightening, nonetheless.

Excerpts from Billa Vista's Coil Over Bible

The internal bypass valve that King developed (Walker Evans uses it as well) is a needle that inserts through the top of the shock piston at max compression. In the piston shaft there is a hole drilled for the oil to escape when the needle is entering the piston shaft which effectively creates the same affect as an air bump stop.

 

[NateZ]

Emulsion vs Remote Reservoir and Installation

I was making a general reference about IFP shocks versus remote reservoir. But in the case of the 80 series you are correct it is an emulsion shock for the smooth body. For comparison both on road and rock crawling/technical trail use you will find they perform the same. Where you will see a difference is the high speed bumpy roads, desert, etc where the remote reservoir/IFP will out last the emulsion hands down. That is due to the fact that the emulsion shock mixes the nitrogen and oil together while the IFP/Remote Reservoir keep the nitrogen and oil separate.

Thanks... That helps to confirm my decision .

I was considering the emulsion option to keep things simple and to avoid the mounting hassles/worry that some are experiencing. Because, honestly, most of my driving is slower and technical (speed limited by obstacles, narrow desert trails, cliffs, etc) and I'm not even sure if I would notice much difference with an emulsion mono vs a cheaper twin-tube (OME Nitro) with this type of driving.

However, to get there, I will sometime have to travel 10-30 miles of heavily wash boarded roads. Sometimes they are so bad, I just don't go because I have to travel at 10mph (on a perfectly straight open road) and it takes half the day. So, if possible, my goal is to smooth out those washboards and bumps so I can drive 40-45 on them with the wife and kids, enabling me to get out more often

Anyway, it sounds like the emulsion might not be able to keep up on the "out and back" roads, so I'm back to the remote resi version. How are they installed on the MetalTech trucks? Any issues with fitment, reservoir movement/twisting (when installed piggyback), or close tolerances when flexing? Any chance you could post up pics of some installed shocks to help us customers do a proper install?

Thanks,
-Nate

 

[LT]

Thanks... That helps to confirm my decision .

I was considering the emulsion option to keep things simple and to avoid the mounting hassles/worry that some are experiencing. Because, honestly, most of my driving is slower and technical (speed limited by obstacles, narrow desert trails, cliffs, etc) and I'm not even sure if I would notice much difference with an emulsion mono vs a cheaper twin-tube (OME Nitro) with this type of driving.

However, to get there, I will sometime have to travel 10-30 miles of heavily wash boarded roads. Sometimes they are so bad, I just don't go because I have to travel at 10mph (on a perfectly straight open road) and it takes half the day. So, if possible, my goal is to smooth out those washboards and bumps so I can drive 40-45 on them with the wife and kids, enabling me to get out more often

Anyway, it sounds like the emulsion might not be able to keep up on the "out and back" roads, so I'm back to the remote resi version. How are they installed on the MetalTech trucks? Any issues with fitment, reservoir movement/twisting (when installed piggyback), or close tolerances when flexing? Any chance you could post up pics of some installed shocks to help us customers do a proper install?

Thanks,
-Nate

I'll have to get Mark to put the photos on the server but here are a couple of pictures of how we did the front. Since we were the first to get these we received them in the remote reservoir version. I had made a custom weld on mount to the upper coil tower and for the rear we used weld on mounts on the outside of the frame right above the bump stop. However, since we have 3" back spaced rims we could clear the remote canister, this might not be the case for some people.

For the piggyback shocks we haven't had any reports of fitment issue, I can see a potential issue for the rear due to the limited clearance but the front should be just fine with how much space there is.

Here are a couple photos of the front
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=6720171&postcount=110

 

[alia176]

LT,

who does the purchaser need to contact for coming up with the correct valving for a set of the RadFlo shocks - Metaltech or RadFlo? Is metaltech doing the valving setup or do you folks have RadFlo do that work before shipping them to you or are they drop shipped to the end user?

Sorry for the hijack but hopefully this info will be beneficial.

 

[rhyary]

I strongly recommend calling RadFlo and communicating to them directly and specifically what you want when they built the shocks for you. Really, for that kind of money I wouldn't take a chance with someone conveying the information and misinterpret what you said and what you meant.

 

[george_tlc]

Thanks... That helps to confirm my decision .
...

However, to get there, I will sometime have to travel 10-30 miles of heavily wash boarded roads. Sometimes they are so bad, I just don't go because I have to travel at 10mph (on a perfectly straight open road) and it takes half the day. So, if possible, my goal is to smooth out those washboards and bumps so I can drive 40-45 on them with the wife and kids, enabling me to get out more often

...

Thanks,
-Nate

We have lots of nasty corrugated dirt roads in oz (100's of miles of them). Lowering tyre pressure makes a huge difference to driving those roads. Let the rubber take some of the beating versus relying only on the springs/shocks.

cheers,
george.

 

[alia176]

I strongly recommend calling RadFlo and communicating to them directly and specifically what you want when they built the shocks for you. Really, for that kind of money I wouldn't take a chance with someone conveying the information and misinterpret what you said and what you meant.

Will RadFlo sell direct to the end user?

 

[rhyary]

I am not sure if RadFlo will sell direct.
I like to support the vendor community and I don't think it is more expensive to buy through a vendor.

For example I bought the RadFlo from IPOR and my friend bought them from MetalTech. However, I talked extensivly with RadFlo's Mike and Glenn as to what I want and explain what I have.

 

[LT]

Here are the photos of the Radflo shocks mounted on our 80 series. Since we worked directly with Radflo they originally sent them up to us as remote reservoir so we came up with weld on mounts. We felt that the piggy back front and rear would work best for the end consumer versus having to weld brackets to their frames. Keep in mind for the rear reservoir we have 3" back spaced MRW bead locks so we had space between the tire and reservoir can at full flex, this set up might not work depending on which back spacing you have.

*Side note on the first picture, shorty after this was taken the sector shaft decided to sheer off in the golden crack in Moab. Made for some good times.

 

[LT]

LT,

who does the purchaser need to contact for coming up with the correct valving for a set of the RadFlo shocks - Metaltech or RadFlo? Is metaltech doing the valving setup or do you folks have RadFlo do that work before shipping them to you or are they drop shipped to the end user?

Sorry for the hijack but hopefully this info will be beneficial.

We can help you with the valving for your 80 series. The valving Radflo has come up with works really well and we honestly feel it doesn't really need to be tweaked but if you want something softer or stiffer we can certainly get it taken care of. Radflo also offers a compression adjuster now that has 36 settings that has a slight additional cost.

I am not sure if RadFlo will sell direct.
I like to support the vendor community and I don't think it is more expensive to buy through a vendor.

For example I bought the RadFlo from IPOR and my friend bought them from MetalTech. However, I talked extensivly with RadFlo's Mike and Glenn as to what I want and explain what I have.

Radflo is moving away from selling direct and referring to their dealers such as ourselves. Not only are we a whole sale distributor but we are officially sponsored by Radflo on our 2011 4Runner.

 

[NLXTACY]

LT, more info on the Compression Adjuster please!