Excessively underpowered 1HZ + poor fuel economy (2 Viewers)

[Jan-78FJ40]

If anyone thinks this is salvageable, by all means don't be shy. Otherwise, I guess I'm on the hunt. The last core I could find with a quick search had Crushers selling a few seized and unseized engines last year. Not sure what is left of those and if it's worth the money/risk, or if I'm really just better off trying to source something that runs from Australia. Those seem to hover between 2k AUD and 5k AUD plus shipping, which I hear is anywhere from 500-1000. Honestly, at this point I'm guessing that to replicate my previous work (assuming a useable core for 1500 at my door) would put me around 4500-5000 with machining and parts. Seems like a replacement could be the better deal...

I do not think it is salvageable. First, you are already .5 over. You could go to 1 over, but will need it bored, honed, new pistons, rings...lots of work and expensive. And that still does not address your problem, and you'll still not know whether some internal blockage will cause the exact same thing once you are done with the engine.
It reminds me very much of the cursed 1HDT I had. That engine was fully rebuilt, but never ran right and vibrated a lot. Then it burned pistons 5 and 6. We rebuilt it fully again, then the head cracked, and we put a brand new head on. Then ist started to mix oil and coolant. At that point I had enough and threw it out-there was likely some internal damage that was impossible to see. You are in a similar boat.

I agree that you should either get a new or (proven) good short block, and swap your good stuff over. If you can get a good 1HDT, perfect, otherwise go for the 1HZ. The blocks are identical with the only difference being the turbo oil supply and drain being there and a boss being tapped for the turbo stay.

Your pistons are probably good, but the 05 over won't help you, likely.

Good luck,
Jan

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

I agree with @Jan-78FJ40 . If you don't find the smoking gun on tear down then you could be rebuilding the same problem with a new block and head... For the time and money you could upgrade to a new engine and drop it in and save the funds for a future rebuild...

 

[OGBeno]

Hmm, that is interesting that 2LTE has bearings...Sure wish the 1HZ shared that already. Unfortunately, I don't think it's worth measuring right at the moment as my trouble is running deeper...Just read on! Thanks for looking into this, the information and camaraderie is appreciated right now!




So I've been reaching out to various folks to get some info and it seems much has changed in the last year and a half. Beno is gone, G&S are not really into 1HZ's much anymore and I'm not sure how active Akella is anymore since his number has changed and his website is down...

All of this is disappointing as I'm starting to come to grips with the idea that I may need a whole new core. Pulled the pistons today and here's how they looked. Still need to get them mic'ed of course, but definitely some scuffing or scoring on a few.


#1

#2

#3

#4

#5 (cylinder with the oil in the intake)

#6 (cylinder with the problem rod)

Oh yeah, and every once in a while there's some discoloration like this, mostly on the rear two pistons. Good times.

So, maybe not atrocious, but some of those scores I can feel with a fingernail. Next up I got some clearer images of the bores. I won't post all of them as there isn't much point. I'm already bored to O/S 0.50 and there is no way I can imagine getting by with just a hone.

Given all of the above, the condition of the head, cam, pistons, rods, crank (I do already have a replacement for that at least thanks to @ClemsonCruiser), cylinder walls and the already over bored condition...It sure seems to me like I may need to find a different engine to move forward with. All that, and I still haven't checked the state of the brand new Grunter turbo I put on.

If anyone thinks this is salvageable, by all means don't be shy. Otherwise, I guess I'm on the hunt. The last core I could find with a quick search had Crushers selling a few seized and unseized engines last year. Not sure what is left of those and if it's worth the money/risk, or if I'm really just better off trying to source something that runs from Australia. Those seem to hover between 2k AUD and 5k AUD plus shipping, which I hear is anywhere from 500-1000. Honestly, at this point I'm guessing that to replicate my previous work (assuming a useable core for 1500 at my door) would put me around 4500-5000 with machining and parts. Seems like a replacement could be the better deal...

I'm not gone.

I'm right here, at your service.

Happy to ship to Canada.

 

[ForealBoreal]

He is in NW USA I believe....

 

[Leitrum3]

Swap in a 1hd-t put the grunter on it bolt the engine in and go.

Agreed with above, if your block is toast, and you need a new head, you're no longer married to the 1HZ. Find a 1HD-T, slam it in there with the G-turbo, and get back to enjoying your truck.

Leitrum3: Keep your eye out for a 1HDT donor truck from Canada. With our super low dollar now, an $8000CAD donor truck will be $6000USD for you. And you can part out the rest to recover some of that money (like axles, old turbo etc.). I'm sure you could recover some money out of your 1HZ still in parts also. At the end of the day the direct injection motor is more efficient and robust than it's IDI brother anyhow.

I do not think it is salvageable. First, you are already .5 over. You could go to 1 over, but will need it bored, honed, new pistons, rings...lots of work and expensive. And that still does not address your problem, and you'll still not know whether some internal blockage will cause the exact same thing once you are done with the engine.
It reminds me very much of the cursed 1HDT I had. That engine was fully rebuilt, but never ran right and vibrated a lot. Then it burned pistons 5 and 6. We rebuilt it fully again, then the head cracked, and we put a brand new head on. Then ist started to mix oil and coolant. At that point I had enough and threw it out-there was likely some internal damage that was impossible to see. You are in a similar boat.

I agree that you should either get a new or (proven) good short block, and swap your good stuff over. If you can get a good 1HDT, perfect, otherwise go for the 1HZ. The blocks are identical with the only difference being the turbo oil supply and drain being there and a boss being tapped for the turbo stay.

Your pistons are probably good, but the 05 over won't help you, likely.

Good luck,
Jan

I agree with @Jan-78FJ40 . If you don't find the smoking gun on tear down then you could be rebuilding the same problem with a new block and head... For the time and money you could upgrade to a new engine and drop it in and save the funds for a future rebuild...

I'm pretty amazed right now, first in the amount of PM's I've received as well as the general support this place provides for people like me who try their best to contribute - even if it's only in what not to do sometimes! So in short, thanks to all who make this place rad.

As for everything I just quoted above, your advice hasn't gone unheeded and I've done a lot of thinking. I agree that starting over is the best thing to do at this point and hey, look at all the parts I have if I ever need to attempt a rebuild again in the future! Well, at least I have some moderately scuffed pistons I could use. And a crank I already bought. And a valve cover....That's probably good still too.

Honestly, there are better parts than that left and I'll start a thread somewhere down the line to offload some of it, but there are bigger things in the works already. For now, I won't say too much but I may have a very productive (and slightly expensive) weekend in turning this whole thing around...Passport is in my wallet and I've got a truck gassed up and ready! Wish me luck!

Leit

 

[Leitrum3]

So, this totally just happened.

Well, not just, it was a 14 hour day comprised mostly of highway driving. Thank god for podcasts!

But the end result was worth it.

It's a little dirty and in need of some routine maintenance, but nothing I can't handle with the plethora of spare parts I have. 475 compression in all cylinders, super clean in terms of any leaks, drips, seeping, etc. Turbo and IP look to be rebuilt and several modded/upgraded parts as well as a handful of other differences unique to 1HD-T's I'm sure I'll have questions about soon. I have a store opening this week in Seattle so I'm traveling and won't be able to touch it until the weekend, but there's a good chance I can get it whipped into shape and installed in an afternoon or two. Honestly. I. Can't. Wait.



Hardest part of my day is the photo below. Note the hoist pinned to the garage door. I was about ready to air down the tires on my rental truck, but using a hi-jack lift I was able to push the pallet over the edge and hoist it enough that it wouldn't swing when it was finally in the air.

I love problems that require some ingenuity. Today was a pretty good day.

 

[BCR4619]

Congrats! I was wondering why that add was gone and thought u may have come to pick it up!

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

Congrats! Nice score! I'll be in line for some spares from your HZ to help cover some of the damage! I can't wait to hear about this engine and watch it go in!

 

[mudgudgeon]

good call champ!

I currently have a 1hz in bits with a cracked head, and cooked engine with unknown condition of the bottom end (looks ive git lucky though). If i had the spare cash, a bolt in 1hd-t would definitely be ahead of any kind of rebuild.

I had a tuned up 1hd-t in my 80, they are a completely different animal to the 1hz, you wont regret it. let the fun begin!

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Very happy to see this turn of events! I'm glad the US-Canadian exchange rate was in your favor too. Looking forward to seeing everything come together.

 

[Leitrum3]

"Bolt-in". Not always what it seems. Well, I could've made it as simple as that, but honestly, that's just not how I'm wired. I have a tremendous amount of clean and/or new parts that are an exact match so why would I not potentially extend the life of the engine by cleaning and re-sealing everything I can reach while it's out of the car? It's also a good chance to go through the engine and inspect things I won't otherwise easily get the chance to see. On a quick side note, I spent the better part of the day working on getting the #1 crank pulley off to no avail. And I caused my compressor to have an untimely demise. Soaked it in PB blaster all afternoon. Maybe by tomorrow it'll crack free???

While I would still like to more or less bolt it in and go, a few things have come up I'm curious about. Some facts for starters, I'm told by the PO that compression reads 475 across and I can see that there are no actively visible oil leaks on the exterior. There are several areas which appear to have had mild leaks previously and are now caked with dirt/oil mix -- nothing I wouldn't really expect on a 185k engine that's seen offroad use.

It's when I pulled the turbo and manifolds that I've started to have some questions and am trying to think this through. Exhaust manifold and valves were dry with slight exception in two cylinders.

Most looked like this.

Two looked like this (not connected).

Then looking at the turbo, there were traces of oil on both the intake side from the airbox as well as the output. Not sure if this is normal blowby for this engine or not, or if it has to do with the turbo in any way? The one thing I'm considering is if I want to wait to reinstall the engine for my gturbo to return from Autralia. I spoke with Grame and he said he would look it over and repair as necessary. Long way to ship for a rebuild, but if it's in perfect shape, I was hoping I could talk him into upgrading me to an Extreme...I can dream can't I?

Perhaps the most alarming thing and what has me the most perplexed is the amount of carbon build up on the intake valves. This wasn't the worst of them but it was the best picture I managed to take.

Is this amount of carbon normal for these engines? I searched but couldn't a lot of info here on this. Seems like wherever the oil is coming form is creating a feedback loop of some kind where the more oil that makes it to the valves causes them to leak more oil and so on and so forth. It would stand to reason that the source of the oil is from blowby, and valves seem likely. With DI, there also doesn't seem to be any easy way to clean the back side of the valves like with a seafoam treatment or something. I have a brand new set of valves, springs, etc. on the spare head I could theoretically swap onto this, but that would be getting in deeper than I hoped. Open to suggestions and thoughts!

Leit

 

[ForealBoreal]

The crank case ventilation fed back to the airbox is the culprit on why the intake system is oily. Run a good quality catch can to help alleviate this.

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

Leit, Foreal is right. I'm searching for a good catch for my HZ but in the meantime I am just venting to atmosphere. I really hate the thought of putting oil into the intake side of a turbo. I'd much prefer to isolate that so if the turbo is having problems I'll see oil and know that there is only one place or could be coming from.

 

[BCR4619]

Yea like Karter sys it would be blow by. I am running a catch can that is capturing most of it... Obviously some vapour is still getting through but I don't think 100% can be captured. When I bent the flaps in the rocker cover and added the catch can my turbo has stayed clean on the outside

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I would not worry about it.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Yup, good ol' pcv build up. I had 3/8" layer of that in my intake mani and on the back of my valves; real PITA to clean up (mixed with EGR soot on my engine). I tried a PCV catch can for a while, but just vent to atmosphere under the truck now. Stink pipe FTW; just like a tractor.

 

[Douglas S]

There's no EGR. It's what everyone else has said, normal amount of oil from venting the crank case into the intake pre-turbo.

Mine was similar until I disconnected the crank case vent from intake and ran it to atmosphere.

 

[ForealBoreal]

Stink pipe @GTSSportCoupe

 

[IanB]

I've been looking around for a good catch can for mine, and it feels like I'm reading everyone else is just venting to atmosphere? Is this really the case?

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

I want a catch can too, but want to continue venting to atmosphere. I just want to both keep from dripping oil from my vent tube (happens only once in a while) but also want to be able to see how much oil is coming out with the vapor.