EMS Exhaust replacement question? (1 Viewer)

[BRKLYN1]

Here are photos notes to follow

to the left of the 2 down pipes .... notice the 2 holes with AntiSeeze thats the place to attach hoop for the hook that is in the photo above... this takes the weight off of the flex joints...that said the flex joints also benefit from the slip fit play.... i think 3 years so far.... and EMS did send me a replacement !! F-ING miracle!!! so i have a front replacement for that looming day... ill be chopping the new one also, its so much easier to install!!

 

[BRKLYN1]

measure 10 times then once more then cut.... but it is easy enough to do.

 

[jcarter]

So you got ahold of EMS? Thanks for the pics, but it's on the wrong side, mines a '92 with the almighty 3FE, downpipes on the driver's side.

I didn't replace it back to factory like the last exhaust shop I had it to. I'm on my 4th shop getting a gameplan and a quote. I'm asking them to use the "original" downpipes as a template to make new ones without the cats using stainless steel as opposed to aluminum. Then build a new y-pipe and hang it with flexible hanger.

I told the guy my most important thing is longevity! I've been dealing with this dad-gummed exhaust system for years now and am done with it!

 

[mickeyt]

My exhaust shop is usimg EZMC ypipe and conecting it to rest of the oem exhaust system. He is cutting the end of ems ypipe where cat is though.

 

[SM Racing]

I don't understand what the problem is? Cut the current leaky flex sections out of the EMS down pipes and replace them. I used these bellows style stainless steel flex joints in my down pipe. (yes I know its not a 3F)


Take your down pipes off and send them to me and I will replace the flex sections. Then rubber mount the rest of the exhaust system and it should be fine. There is no reason to build new pipes and replace flanges, etc. You simply need to remove the bellows and replace them. I am not sure I see a problem with the EMS system beyond the solid mounting crap. Mount the system with rubber hangers and it will be fine.

 

[mickeyt]

I fat fingered my last post but I meant EMS. Brett, what you described must be what my guy is doing I imagine.

 

[SM Racing]

Why is he connecting to the stock system? What was wrong with the EMS system beyond the solid mounting and leaking joints?

BTW the EMS system is 304 stainless and needs to be TIG welded for proper strength. A muffler shop without proper fabrication facilities will only screw it up badly.

There is no reason to change anything beyond the two flex joints in the down pipe and so rubber mount the exhaust system. Why change cats and all the other parts if they aren't broken?

 

[mickeyt]

I only own the ypipe which I bought a few years ago from a mudder. I am keeping everything oem accept ypipe so he is removing the cat on the ems

 

[treerootCO]

I don't know what the problem is. Polished stainless is supposed to rust like that.

 

[scottryana]

Haha, yeah sucks, looks like every one of the made overseas sets were bad stainless. You can tell the difference from the made overseas exhaust to the made in EMS's shop O2 sensor cover. One is completely rusted the other pretty clean still.

 

[SM Racing]

I won't necessarily call it bad overseas stainless, if you look at the Stainless components I used in my down pipe it looks much different now that it has been in use for a few years. The water exposure, the high heat, dirt, etc all contribute to the failed appearance. I should take a pic of mine now that it has been in action for a few years. I am pretty sure I used components from the same company as EMS.

 

[SM Racing]

Here you can see the condition of my downpipe and it is two years old now, I think.

 

[treerootCO]

Making some progress. I still don't think stainless steel is supposed to rust like that...

 

[scottryana]

So I have done quite a bit of research on this since I am getting ready to build new turbo manifolds for another project. And 409 stainless absolutely will rust like that. It is the cheapest type of stainless and provides just a tiny bit more corrosion resistance than mild steel. It really should be coated. 304 is the next grade of steel and will provide quite a bit more resistance to rust to me all exhausts even at cheap price point should be at least 304. After 304 is 316 and it is very resistant to rust and will provide a nice golden color after heat. The most expensive of the materials used for exhaust is 321 and it is as resistant to rust as 316, stronger and less resistant to changes in size with heat.

Good link with descriptions
http://www.nks.com/stainless_steel_distributor.html

 

[SM Racing]

304 is what I used in mine. Part of its corrosion, part of it is just dirt and road grime. I have used 409 and its going to develop a layer of surface "rust" that is what protects the material. Most stock Exhaust systems these days are 409 stainless. Its cheaper than the 3 series stainless and meets the 50K mile federal limits. I use 321 in all stainless turbo manifolds and race headers where tubing wall thickness is thinner than .049.

I would be surprised if EMS used 409 as its harder to get in mandrel bend form than 304. I still think the mix of heat, moisture, and oxygen will fight hard to increase the corrosion factor of stainless steel. Stainless is really rust resistant when you don't mix high heat and moisture. I am figuring the combination of road grime, water, and heat contribute to the deterioration in finish on 304. If you look at my downpipe that is what it looks like after two years. I know for a fact that it is 304 as its non magnetic. 409 is magnetic, so that is a quick check for the OP. Many of the components that Magnaflow sells are made of 409.

It would be interesting to heat a piece of 304 stainless to 800deg and then toss it in water repeatedly and see how that changes the corrosion resistance.

 

[MikePL]

I wouldn't call this rust. It is more like a layer on the very top of the metal which does not go further. My exhaust is probably 5 years old (with salt on roads during winter) and it looks rusty but after brushing it, there is an even smooth layer of metal and not a porous surface typical of mild steel. It is just appearance and I would not worry about failure.

 

[jcarter]

I ended up bringing it to the nearby Car-X. I don't think they're "experts" but just wanted it done and figured they're close so I can easily bring it back if issues.

$750 to fix it. I'll get pictures later. Put on a new Cat.

Drove it far last weekend and felt like I was dragging a boat anchor. Acceleration is really bad and getting up hills on I-44 near Pacific, MO is a 50 mph endeavor as opposed to the standard 60 mph. I'm bringing it back and they're going to do a test to see if there is a blockage.

LEAK BEFORE O2: The funny thing is when the flex pipe was leaking before the O2 sensors, it ran great (although a little loud). Also, after it warms up a little say I drive it for 10 minutes, I'll stop and idle, the RPMs will go down like they should until about 800, then quickly kick back up to 1100, like it gets a signal "OOPS, ain't hot enough yet". I thought if you had a leak before the O2 sensors the sensors wouldn't work properly?

 

[henrymski]

I'm late to this thread, for sure but I have a couple comments: First is why does anyone do business with EMS? There are countless threads on numerous forums detailing how awful they are to deal with. Second is regarding why the shop the OP discusses says welding can't be done. If I'm reading all this right, you are wanting them to weld where there is interference from the O2 bung so welding the pipe above is difficult. EMS likely put the bung on after doing the "around the pipe" welding on the pipe above.

If you all search the site you'll find my lengthy thread on the all the problems I had with EMS. I actually still have the system on my truck, though it's about to get the boot for diesel conversion, and I've had an idling problem with the truck ever since I put the EMS system on that I have yet to diagnose. I've done all the trouble shooting the factory manual outlines to no avail. I've had "professionals" look at it and they could not fix it either. Such is life and as I said the system is going away. Before any one asks, I didn't replace the EMS system because I didn't want to spend the money as I don't put many miles on the truck a year and it's not a debilitating issue, just annoying.

 

[Golgo13]

I'm late to this thread, for sure but I have a couple comments: First is why does anyone do business with EMS? There are countless threads on numerous forums detailing how awful they are to deal with. Second is regarding why the shop the OP discusses says welding can't be done. If I'm reading all this right, you are wanting them to weld where there is interference from the O2 bung so welding the pipe above is difficult. EMS likely put the bung on after doing the "around the pipe" welding on the pipe above.

If you all search the site you'll find my lengthy thread on the all the problems I had with EMS. I actually still have the system on my truck, though it's about to get the boot for diesel conversion, and I've had an idling problem with the truck ever since I put the EMS system on that I have yet to diagnose. I've done all the trouble shooting the factory manual outlines to no avail. I've had "professionals" look at it and they could not fix it either. Such is life and as I said the system is going away. Before any one asks, I didn't replace the EMS system because I didn't want to spend the money as I don't put many miles on the truck a year and it's not a debilitating issue, just annoying.

most of these people(myself included) DID business with EMS when they were the latest/greatest thing going. We all found out at about the same time how bad things really were. I don't think EMS is even in business anymore.

 

[scottryana]

No, no one is doing business with EMS any longer. They closed down shop. He sold all of his inventory and jigs to an MR2 shop. He is not even in the car business any longer.

Very real case of good ideas, good intentions, and execution that fell short because of inexperience. Great example is the 80's exhausts. The first few were handmade in house using high quality stainless, the next 100 were done by a shop in Portland Oregon that specializes in mandrel bent tubing, and then after a trip to SEMA an overseas company said they could provide the same product for less, and the rest is history. I spent a lot of time with the EMS guys and I do not think it was anyone's intention to screw over communities of people he was being told he was buying stainless etc but when things started to go bad it went quickly.

There are those on here that found out early and several times he replaced their entire exhaust, but as it continued to go downhill there were no resources to make people whole and his absence from the forums just made it worse until the point he had to go out of business.

EMS was only 4 people. I still use the fabricator they had for my projects, as the guy is a metal wizard and incredibly talented. Their mechanic was a solid 6.5-7 out of 10, their gopher was a hard worker and 8 out of 10, but the management and experience was sadly a 4 out of 10.