Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
WES1977 I have been using chains after seeing that pic.[/QUOTE said:
Dumb Recovery Strap Question
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Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
And yep, chains do stetch. Not to the degree that a strap does, but enough to make it jump pretty good when a link snaps.
A chain by itself will not propell itself through a rig the way the trailerball/shackle on the end of the strap did in the picture above. It an certainly give you a good whack if you are standing beside it when it lets go. Chains do'nt normally have the damage potential that a strp WITH A CHUNK OF STEEL STILL ATTACHED does. A strap by itself is not all that bad either. It doesn't have enough mass to cause a lot of damage and the drag of the air slows it quickly as well (again do to the lack of mass).
The bad situations are not usually caused by straps or chains them breaking. They are caused by the attachment points breaking off of the rig when the strap yanks on them. Then you get all the energy of a strap with a weight on the end. Attaching a chain to a strap is a problem if the chain is rigged so that it can come flying back with the strap pulling it if it breaks. The only way I use a chain and a strap together is when the chain is wrapped multiple times around a frame, axle,bumper or whatever. That way if a link does break, the chain doesn't come flying free of the rig on the end of the strap.
Mark...
A chain by itself will not propell itself through a rig the way the trailerball/shackle on the end of the strap did in the picture above. It an certainly give you a good whack if you are standing beside it when it lets go. Chains do'nt normally have the damage potential that a strp WITH A CHUNK OF STEEL STILL ATTACHED does. A strap by itself is not all that bad either. It doesn't have enough mass to cause a lot of damage and the drag of the air slows it quickly as well (again do to the lack of mass).
The bad situations are not usually caused by straps or chains them breaking. They are caused by the attachment points breaking off of the rig when the strap yanks on them. Then you get all the energy of a strap with a weight on the end. Attaching a chain to a strap is a problem if the chain is rigged so that it can come flying back with the strap pulling it if it breaks. The only way I use a chain and a strap together is when the chain is wrapped multiple times around a frame, axle,bumper or whatever. That way if a link does break, the chain doesn't come flying free of the rig on the end of the strap.
Mark...
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Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
Rich said:
Buying and carrying a strap with a 50,000 pound capacity just to be able to have it function at 30,000 pounds is... ineffecient at best. Not to mention the difficulty of untying any knot after a good hard yank or five of them. And the reduction iun length is usually nothing to be ignored.
Carry rigging gear and don't tie knots in you straps.
Mark...
What about hooks on the end of straps???
I posted a pic of one of my "ropes" with hooks but didn't get any answers on why it was more dangerous then shackles...Is it just the potential of that hook coming off?
I posted a pic of one of my "ropes" with hooks but didn't get any answers on why it was more dangerous then shackles...Is it just the potential of that hook coming off?
thats why you place a blanket over the strap after you place tension on it BEFORE you start to pull....that way IF it breaks, the weight of the blanket will prevent it from becoming a whip.....a cheap 9 or 10 dollar furniture blanket from uhaul, wally word...ect is the best....serves dual purpose should you get stuck somewhere and its cold......
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If you need to loop two straps together, put a towel, shop rag, branch, etc. between them, makes getting them apart much easier. Never join them with a shackle or anything heavy.
I used a chain for years, until a buddy broke his putting the end through his tailgate. It hit so hard that the tailgate was caved into the bed, when he later got a new gate it wouldn't fit due to the bed sides being pulled together! I was standing way to close and it was very violent, he was lucky the tailgate was there to take the beating.
I have broken a bunch of straps with and without blankets and will take that every time over a chain! If there's not a solid, made for towing mount to attach to, I won't use a shackle. I prefer a possible bent spring from wrapping the strap around the axle or possibly pulling the bumper off, to being chased by a shackle, that's just not a race that your going to win!
Some good recovery reading;
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html
I used a chain for years, until a buddy broke his putting the end through his tailgate. It hit so hard that the tailgate was caved into the bed, when he later got a new gate it wouldn't fit due to the bed sides being pulled together! I was standing way to close and it was very violent, he was lucky the tailgate was there to take the beating.
I have broken a bunch of straps with and without blankets and will take that every time over a chain! If there's not a solid, made for towing mount to attach to, I won't use a shackle. I prefer a possible bent spring from wrapping the strap around the axle or possibly pulling the bumper off, to being chased by a shackle, that's just not a race that your going to win!
Some good recovery reading;
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html
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The point of using a bowline is it does not lock up. I have pulled a 15K lbs truck/trailer up hill out of the mud and had no problem at all untying the bowline knot. Ropes aren't much good without knots.Mark W said:Buying and carrying a strap with a 50,000 pound capacity just to be able to have it function at 30,000 pounds is... ineffecient at best. Not to mention the difficulty of untying any knot after a good hard yank or five of them. And the reduction iun length is usually nothing to be ignored.
Carry rigging gear and don't tie knots in you straps.
Mark...
Only time I used my strap was to pull out a another truck that had no suitable hooks up front. Tied the strap around the center member of the front suspension with a bowline and eased it right out with no problems.
We're not talking about "ropes", we're talking about straps that have loops in the end, so you can recover a vehicle. Senseless to tie a knot in a rope and reduce it's strength when you can use a shackle and retain all the strength. Why would you choose to do that? Yes, I have used plenty of bowlines, but don't think I would be tying one for a vehicle recovery.Rich said:
Super Strap?
Since we're on the subject...
Have any of you tried the Super Strap? http://www.superstrap.com/
It looks like a good idea beacuse you can shorten it to any length you need and you don't need shackels, hooks, etc.
I was pretty convinced, but then in their video they show the strap attached to a tow ball
.
It seems similar to the constrictor strap that Scott reviewed. But it looks like that one in no longer available though.
Anyway, I'd be interested in any feedback. I'd probably get a long one inch one. For easy pulls I could just make it what every lenght I need and for diffucult pulls I could loop it back for double the strength.
Since we're on the subject...
Have any of you tried the Super Strap? http://www.superstrap.com/
It looks like a good idea beacuse you can shorten it to any length you need and you don't need shackels, hooks, etc.
I was pretty convinced, but then in their video they show the strap attached to a tow ball
.It seems similar to the constrictor strap that Scott reviewed. But it looks like that one in no longer available though.
Anyway, I'd be interested in any feedback. I'd probably get a long one inch one. For easy pulls I could just make it what every lenght I need and for diffucult pulls I could loop it back for double the strength.
Knowing how to tie a bowline is just another tool in the inventory to get the job done with what is at hand and is a useful skill to have.firetruck41 said:
It's not senseless to use a bowline if that is the only way to get done what needs doing with what is at hand. Perhaps you missed the real world example I gave where there was no option to fasten a shackle to the vehicle needing recovery. Tying the strap was the better option. Another option would have been to pass on by and leave the guy stuck on the side of the road, as did everybody who had passed before me.
Shahram
I ain't got herpes no more.
I know this is gonna sound kinda dumb, but I just used a tow strap to pull one of my 15k lb. bobtail trucks up a driveway when it wouldn't start. I didn't use my shackles, because I was worried that they wouldn't hold up under the stress. I sat there and fretted about how I was going to tie both ends. Ended up looping it through itself on my Cruiser's closed-loop recovery points, then looped it through the bobtail's tow point. The Mexican dude who drives the truck was like "Screw those shackles, man, that stuff is too dangerous. Just loop the strap around itself a few times. The material on the strap is grippy enough to bond to itself under pressure. Plus, you don't have some projectile flying all over if the strap breaks." He was right. I just looped the strap through the tow point until it wouldn't fit anymore, and it worked like a charm. When I was done, I expected the strap to be cinched in there, but it came right out with very little effort.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
I think something that some folks are missing here is that these are "snatch straps" that we are talking about. You don't ease the slack out 'til you have tension and the start to pull. You back up, leave a bunch of slack onthe ground between the rigs and stand on the throttle. This is why you don't use chains in conjuction with a strap and why you don't ty knots in straps. You're usually pushing the strap up close to it's limits. And I don't care whaT kind of knot you use. When you are talking about a wet and muddy strap that strecthes and then shrinks while under heavy load... It will be hell to untie a knot. IF it can be done at all. And IF the knot doesn't cause the strap to break anyway.
RE: passing the strap repeatedly through a fixed loop on a rig like mentioned in the post right above this one... Yep, that works well if you have the length of strap to do it. I would not snatch with a strap rig this way unless the end was also secured to something. But if you do wrap it like this, it doesn't take a real strong attachment point to secure the end. Most (virtually all) of the stress will be taken up by the layered wraps.
But it takes a large loop to do this. A piece of heavy equipment might have a loop this size. A Cruiser probably won't.
Mark...
RE: passing the strap repeatedly through a fixed loop on a rig like mentioned in the post right above this one... Yep, that works well if you have the length of strap to do it. I would not snatch with a strap rig this way unless the end was also secured to something. But if you do wrap it like this, it doesn't take a real strong attachment point to secure the end. Most (virtually all) of the stress will be taken up by the layered wraps.
But it takes a large loop to do this. A piece of heavy equipment might have a loop this size. A Cruiser probably won't.
Mark...
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Doesn't anyone have tow hooks on their vehicles anymore 
Also, you can get shackles at your fastenal pretty cheap. The Made in the USA ones are like $17 and the chinese ones are like 12, but you can usually bargain with the guy and get them to give you the USA ones for the chinese price.
Last time I managed to buy 6 shackles for $8 a piece. I just went to my club meeting and said I was gonna be picking up some shackles and did anyone want any. Quantity = better discount
Ary
Also, you can get shackles at your fastenal pretty cheap. The Made in the USA ones are like $17 and the chinese ones are like 12, but you can usually bargain with the guy and get them to give you the USA ones for the chinese price.
Last time I managed to buy 6 shackles for $8 a piece. I just went to my club meeting and said I was gonna be picking up some shackles and did anyone want any. Quantity = better discount
Ary
Doesn't anyone have tow hooks on their vehicles anymore
Ary
Man...thats what I want to know too!
If your vehicle doesn't have "real live" recovery points, put some on it!
Flint Knapper take it from someone that has personally seen a pin type clevis straighten out and sail through the rear window and windshield of a pickup take the thing back to the farm where you are only doing steady pulling and only use the screw type clevis's
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You're not going to "straighten out" the one I have posted above.
I use that type specifically because of experience/confidence gained from on "the farm" use with these.
I can assure you...we have tested them...and I don't mean "steady pulling".
We have jerked on these things with log skidders, big 4X4 tractors, dozers, dump trucks....you name it.
Now...I have no doubt.. some "made in China" undersized clevis/shackle can be overworked and then your advice to use the screw type becomes applicable.
But, I promise you...you'll tear something else up before this one fails (the black one).
Chains are expressly forbidden in our SAR group. They offer no give and generally break whatever they are tied to. Plus they are heavy.
we use snatch type recovery straps. They stretch and have give to them.
IMO chains are dangerous and of no use to me.
I switched over to a super strap but i've had good success out of chains if your careful.
The Black one pictured is slightly smaller than the one I witnessed being straightened it was a 1" used by the military for their large 8 wheel drive trucks PLS system, and in a lot of situations should have been fine.
But what happens is when the strap has slack in it the end loop can move to appox. where the fingers are in the picture, and since rarely can you pull directly straight, the shackle becomes side loaded effectively shearing the hitch pin used to keep the pin from falling out.
I'd rather keep my head and use screw type clevises.
