[Chaldaean]

Firstly, compliments to IPOR for a great product. I had been thinking about ordering one for about a year, but was hesitant to shell out all the cash as I was thinking about making my own. However, when it arrived, I quickly recognized that I wouldn't be able to fabricate a skid of such quality for the money spent; well worth the investment as far as I'm concerned. Good stuff, IPOR

Here are two pictures of the installed skid......and one of the bolt that I broke off in the frame during the removal of the crossmember (luckily, after heating the broken shank to cherry-red, I was able to grab it with Vise Grips and twist it out).

I wrote "New Design" in the thread title as this is the first IPOR skid that I've seen with the protective border around the transmission mount nuts.

[Chaldaean]

I did run into a hiccup during install, though. The arm that extends from the skid to the frame interfered with the dyamic damper on the transfer case. I had to drill another hole in the arm on the frame end in order to clear it. I called IPOR to let them know and pointed them to this thread for the illustration.

From looking at other threads, I think that my arm may be assembled opposite to others. The flat stock that is welded to the side of the bent section of the arm is on dynamic damper side in my case. In other cases, I see the flat stock welded on the opposite side.

The first picture shows the interference.

The second picture shows the new hole.

The third picture shows the clearance between the damper and the arm.

[jonheld]

I have the same one installed on my 91. The transmission plate makes contact with the OEM skid plate on the bottom of the tranny pan. It causes some vibration to be transmitted through the frame. Not a big deal as I can't see it moving much. Also there is too much relief between the bottom of the transfer case and the skid plate. I'm not sure if that is to accomodate different models, but it can be raised by a good 2" on mine.

I should have trimmed off the trans mount bolts on mine the way you did. I will have to do that before my next trip out.

[concretejungle]

THe rubber mount you are pointing at also touches my IPOR skid arm. I haven't even thought about it really. Been like that for a few years.

[teejnut]

Originally Posted by jonheld

I have the same one installed on my 91. The transmission plate makes contact with the OEM skid plate on the bottom of the tranny pan. It causes some vibration to be transmitted through the frame. Not a big deal as I can't see it moving much. Also there is too much relief between the bottom of the transfer case and the skid plate. I'm not sure if that is to accomodate different models, but it can be raised by a good 2" on mine.

I should have trimmed off the trans mount bolts on mine the way you did. I will have to do that before my next trip out.

Yeah I just removed the stock tranny skid plate when I installed mine.

[80t0ylc]

Nice skid plate. Creepersleeper & his Dad fabbed one of their own design - check out his thread for another slant. http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-finished.html
Can you drop tranny oilpan for tranny maintenance with skid plate still in place?

[wearsabrowncoat]

Other than the hole you drilled was it all bolt on and did it come with hardware? The IPOR site didn't go into details.

[teejnut]

Originally Posted by wearsabrowncoat

Other than the hole you drilled was it all bolt on and did it come with hardware? The IPOR site didn't go into details.

Yep it comes with all the hardware. You do have to re-use the washers/nuts for the two bolts of the t-case.

[S4Cruiser]

Originally Posted by concretejungle

THe rubber mount you are pointing at also touches my IPOR skid arm. I haven't even thought about it really. Been like that for a few years.

Mine too - Talked to Cam at IPOR and he said it was fine to remove the rubber dampner...so I did.

[landtank]

I love my ipor skid. The only complaint was the supplied hardware. I ended up sourcing flange bolts and washers to mimic the factory hardware. But I'm a little OCD in that department.

[80t0ylc]

Good idea to protect the tranny mounting hardware. they should've finished the job by doing the same for the crossmember to frame bolt heads. IMHO you could shear off or damage these bolt heads same as the tranny mounts.

[IPOR]

Wow guys, great feedback. I never got the message about this thread, just found it while checking SEO on the new IPOR website. Let me see if I can address some questions here:

The tcase support leg should not contact the damper - if you have this problem then you have a leg with support brace on the wrong side. We thought we caught all of them, guess a few got out that we were not aware of. It's okay to remove the damper, most of us running off road tires would never notice any additional vibration - HOWEVER, if you would like I am perfectly happy to replace any incorrectly assembled legs for free. Just send us an email.

Crossmember support bolt protection - in our experience this hasn't been a problem. If anyone shears one please let me know, we can certainly look into adding that feature.

Trans Maintenance - there really isn't much of a need for this except maybe filter and shift cable change, both of which are extremely rare. In this rare case we recommend using appropriate jack stands. There are fluid drain holes for routine maintenance. We could have made the skid two piece but that adds unnecessary cost, weight, and complexity. It also takes precious ground clearance from an already long wheelbase vehicle. That the IPOR 80 skid plate yields better ground clearance than the factory crossmember is no mistake - it's done to help with the breakover angle on the long 80 wheelbase. The skid is made this way intentionally.

Jon - your skid is lower than everyone else. This is also intentional. Seriously, we have made minor modifications to the skid several times over the years to acheive the optimal balance between ground clearance and protection. The one I put on my FZJ40 recently has about 3/4" between skid and tcase - this may vary slightly depending on trans/tcase model.

Hardware - great suggestion, duly noted!

Thanks!

[CycloSteve]

Quick question Lance. Are all of the units now shipping with the trans bolt-protection shown in the first post? Asking since the pics and description on the IPOR website don't mention this great design change...hint, hint.

[luk4mud]

All those exposed bolt heads would worry me. Any chance you could use a flush mount bolt design rather than surrender more ground clearance by building donuts around the bolts? Most of the jeep skids I am familiar with use a flush mount design.

[IPOR]

Originally Posted by CycloSteve

Quick question Lance. Are all of the units now shipping with the trans bolt-protection shown in the first post? Asking since the pics and description on the IPOR website don't mention this great design change...hint, hint.

Yes, and thanks for the not so subtle hint! LOL! I haven't taken any new pics since we made the change.

In fact, they're currently on special - free shipping to continental USA! (sorry AK and HI - you can have $65 off instead, just call to work it out)

Seriously, these kinds of comments are how we manage product improvements, like our new FJ80 tire carrier, so this is very helpful. We used to have all countersunk hardware in this skid but people found it extremely difficult to install in their driveway, thus the large slots and bolt protection.

[luk4mud]

"Seriously, these kinds of comments are how we manage product improvements, like our new FJ80 tire carrier, so this is very helpful. We used to have all countersunk hardware in this skid but people found it extremely difficult to install in their driveway, thus the large slots and bolt protection. "

Glad to see you guys have already visited that issue. Skids are not easy to install in the driveway. Just one view, but I would rather wrestle the thing for an afternoon in my driveway and have flush mount hw when I'm done I guess.

[concretejungle]

I have had a pig skid on for a while now and love it! My support leg touches the damper but that's OK with me. I can try more aggressive lines knowing i have that extra protection under there.

[80t0ylc]

Originally Posted by luk4mud

....... Just one view, but I would rather wrestle the thing for an afternoon in my driveway and have flush mount hw when I'm done I guess.

The IPOR skidplate is simplicity in action, but I agree on your concept for the hardware protection idea, luk4mud, - I mean we're talking skidplates here. They're gonna get hammered - no 2 ways about it. I'm sorry Lance, but those 8 exposed bolt heads would worry me. One of the reasons I chose another skidplate. As you can see in the pic, a little ground clearance was sacrificed, but IMHO the protection for all the hardware is superior.

[96r50]

I have one of the IPOR skids from a year or so ago (prior to the transmission mount stud protector), and my support leg also touched the transfer case dampener. I ended up taking it to a local welding shop and having them cut off and remount the side piece on the other side to correct the problem. I figured the IPOR guys would have taken care of it (they were a great help in getting my Metaltech sliders) but shipping/customs baloney would have been too much work/extra cost for one little piece I could deal with locally.

As for the skidplate itself, it has taken a number of decent hits and bumps (do you ever get used to the feeling of smacking your truck into a rock?) with no damage. I have done a couple transmission drain/fills as well as changing out the transfer case oil and the skid has never hindered me. It actually gives you a nice place to rest the drain/fill plugs I see no reason to drop the transmission pan (it is a Toyota trans after all, with a screen and not a filter) so that is not a concern to me. If you wanted to drop the pan, just do it before you install the skid.

[IPOR]

Here's an example of an 80 that probably sees more action than most running the IPOR skid. Rich likes to run the red trails with the buggys, and sometimes as you all know the 80 just doesn't fit. In this case the wet PA mud and rocks got the better of him and put this pointy rock between the transfer case and gas tank. Of course, forward progress at this point would have led to disasterous consequences for the fuel tank. The transfer case was well protected by the IPOR skid plate, but getting out was another thing entirely.

The obvious solution is to go straight up, so we stacked rocks but the big truck just spit them out any time the wheels turned. The only remaining option was to winch the 80 backwards. This meant putting the 8 bolts in question in full shear with the full weight of the 80 (approx 6500 lbs) on them and draging the truck up onto the IPOR skid. It's important to look closely at the pictures below - this meant pulling against the crossmember portion, not the ramped portion of the tcase skid.

The recovery was successful and we were back on the move.

[IPOR]

Rich was kind enough later that day to show off the IPOR skid plate... (and roll cage!)

As you can see from the second pic Rich has and earlier version of the skid plate that used countersunk hardware at the trans mount. We got feedback from 80 owners here on ih8mud that using the countersink hardware (required drilling and tapping trans mount) was difficult to do in the driveway so we changed to slots that would accomodate the factory trans mount studs and received a very positive response to it. We added the protective ring later, and given the feedback received in this thread may add a similar mod to the crossmember bolts as well.

It's important to note that doing so would make it subject to the same interference problems as the other skid shown above, when mounting any one of the many aftermarket sliders that use these bolts as attachment points. Compatibility with multiple aftermarket sliders is no accident, we designed it that way.

Toyota saw fit to slot these holes in the factory crossmember to allow for minor production differences, and certainly after 10 years of fender benders and wheeling incidents using these slots ensures fewer fitting problems for the end consumer. Unfortunately countersinks cannot be used in the slotted holes. I'm a big fan of using countersunk hardware - I run it on my FZJ40, but it's a modified version of our 80 skid and involved custom frame mounts and significant added expense. I don't think countersinks are the answer for the crossmember bolts.

It may be difficult to see in the reduced size of the images here, but even under severe use like this the bolts on this skid are fine. While I recognize the need to moderate the risk of damage to the bolts, I disagree that this is a significant enough concern to make the IPOR 80 skid a bad choice. The IPOR 80 skid is still the best protection on the market for the 80 series Land Cruiser.

I am always interested in making our products better. When a solution becomes available that doesn't increase cost to the end user, doesn't make it more difficult to install and doesn't interfere with mounting other aftermarket equipment you can bet we'll incorporate it in the design!

[CycloSteve]

Lance, thanks for the heads-up on the free shipping...ordered!

Ouch to the above shots.

[80t0ylc]

Originally Posted by IPOR

....... We added the protective ring later, and given the feedback received in this thread may add a similar mod to the crossmember bolts as well.......

Good idea, IMHO

Originally Posted by IPOR

.....It's important to note that doing so would make it subject to the same interference problems as the other skid shown above, when mounting any one of the many aftermarket sliders that use these bolts as attachment points. Compatibility with multiple aftermarket sliders is no accident, we designed it that way.....

I see your point, but have not seen sliders that use these as a mounting point, although it looks like a logically good choice, except for the shape of the OEM crossmember, which is not flat like yours.

Originally Posted by IPOR

...... I don't think countersinks are the answer for the crossmember bolts......

Agreed! Much rather have flange bolts here.

Originally Posted by IPOR

.........While I recognize the need to moderate the risk of damage to the bolts, I disagree that this is a significant enough concern to make the IPOR 80 skid a bad choice.......

Disagree, emphatically! While these bolts are just your skidplate mounting bolts, let's not forget this is also a crossmember that supports the rear of the tranny and center diff. Any weakening or failure of this very important structure could have serious and disasterous consequences to the drive train.

Originally Posted by IPOR

....... The IPOR 80 skid is still the best protection on the market for the 80 series Land Cruiser.......

This could be true, with a slight mod to protect hardware, again IMHO.

Originally Posted by IPOR

....... I am always interested in making our products better. When a solution becomes available that doesn't increase cost to the end user, doesn't make it more difficult to install and doesn't interfere with mounting other aftermarket equipment you can bet we'll incorporate it in the design!

While I understand what IPOR is striving for here, Lance, I think the priorities are mixed up. IMHO, the integrity of the crossmember should be paramount followed by the protection that the skidplates provide second followed thirdly by compatibility. Leaving those crucial bolt heads exposed seriously jepordizes the basic crossmember strength, once again IMHO.

[CreeperSleeper]

Lance, if I wasn't such a cheap redneck with a welder I would have an IPOR skid on my 80! I do think (especially with the new bolt protection) that it is the best skid available through a vendor. I have seen it in person and in action and I am impressed.

That being said, I agree with Tom. When building my skid, I desided that loosing aprox. 1.5" of ground clearance was worth protecting the bolts. I think it's safe to say I wheel my 80 harder than most and I know that I will be on the skidplate, even if I was to build a flat bottom for my 80. Knowing this, my design was focused on protection first (knowing that I would be resting on my skid) and ground clearance second. Two different approaches to the same problem and I think we both acomplished the goal!

[bkfj40]

Originally Posted by 80t0ylc

The IPOR skidplate is simplicity in action, but I agree on your concept for the hardware protection idea, luk4mud, - I mean we're talking skidplates here. They're gonna get hammered - no 2 ways about it. I'm sorry Lance, but those 8 exposed bolt heads would worry me. One of the reasons I chose another skidplate. As you can see in the pic, a little ground clearance was sacrificed, but IMHO the protection for all the hardware is superior.

a little ground clearance? come on, that tube is gonna get hung up on rocks like a fat kid eating a cupcake. We all like Toyotas for one reason, they are overbuilt....just like the skidplate connection system.

they are running 8 M10x1.5 grade 8.8 fasteners. 8.8 is the equivalent of ASTM A325M and then ASTM A325, which, according to my AISC manual has 21ksi allowable shear strength and 44 ksi allowable tensile strength. Using a bolt area of 0.12 in^2 ( 10mm bolt ), you end up with an allowable shear strength of 2.5k per bolt and an allowable tensile strength of 5.3k per bolt.


How much do you think that rear cross member supports? 500 pounds, say even 1000 pounds...ah hell, lets use 2,000 pounds

Using an interaction equation and 2,000 pounds total tension (that's probably 4 times what is on there) on the bolts, you end up with about 19.98 k (damn near 20,000 pounds! ) shear capacity.

If you think that you are going to shear all those bolts at once, you must have a worse spotter than anyone I've seen...or a worse driver. Granted, the bolts heads might get all bent up and you might not be able to wrap a socket around them....but I'd rather have a set of bolt heads down low than a big ol 2" piece of tube steel that I could've used for a driveshaft.

I wheeled an 80 back in 2003 thru 2005 or 6. I had the old style ARB sliders that were more of tank trap road graders than anything....I wish I would've had an IPOR skidplate on that baby....

There are quality vendors out there for the 80 series that all put a little different spin on stuff, no different than the minitruck market. Take a look at the skid plates that marlin and budbuilt make for the minitruck. Yeah, the truck is lighter, but your design is similar to what everyone is trying to avoid...loss of ground clearance.


anyone got a job number for this so I can bill someone for this ?

[80t0ylc]

Originally Posted by bkfj40

a little ground clearance? come on, that tube is gonna get hung up on rocks like a fat kid eating a cupcake....

My, what a vivid picture! Is this an issue with you? Many things are at or below the bottom surface of the tube, so don't give me the ground clearance routine. Yes, it's not as smooth and large a surface as the IPOR. But so what? Are you going to tell me that those bolt heads aren't going to catch on rocks or objects sliding on skidplate?

Originally Posted by bkfj40

....they are running 8 M10x1.5 grade 8.8 fasteners. 8.8 is the equivalent of ASTM A325M and then ASTM A325, which, according to my AISC manual has 21ksi allowable shear strength and 44 ksi allowable tensile strength. Using a bolt area of 0.12 in^2 ( 10mm bolt ), you end up with an allowable shear strength of 2.5k per bolt and an allowable tensile strength of 5.3k per bolt.
How much do you think that rear cross member supports? 500 pounds, say even 1000 pounds...ah hell, lets use 2,000 pounds
Using an interaction equation and 2,000 pounds total tension (that's probably 4 times what is on there) on the bolts, you end up with about 19.98 k (damn near 20,000 pounds! ) shear capacity.
If you think that you are going to shear all those bolts at once, you must have a worse spotter than anyone I've seen...or a worse driver. Granted, the bolts heads might get all bent up and you might not be able to wrap a socket around them....but I'd rather have a set of bolt heads down low than a big ol 2" piece of tube steel that I could've used for a driveshaft......

Yawn...all your figures still don't help how my "gut" feels. No one can predict how real world situations can all of a sudden spin out of control. You may be in your comfort zone with the present IPOR design, but don't try to convince me that protecting those bolt heads is a bad idea.

Originally Posted by bkfj40

......I wheeled an 80 back in 2003 thru 2005 or 6. I had the old style ARB sliders that were more of tank trap road graders than anything....I wish I would've had an IPOR skidplate on that baby....
There are quality vendors out there for the 80 series that all put a little different spin on stuff, no different than the minitruck market. Take a look at the skid plates that marlin and budbuilt make for the minitruck. Yeah, the truck is lighter, but your design is similar to what everyone is trying to avoid...loss of ground clearance.....

I'm not even going to try and argue with you, 'cause I don't play in the rocks, unless I have to. I've been wheeling for 45 years and I try to stay out of trouble. The only reason I installed the skidplate was to protect my investment and be prepared for some brutal terrain. I'm building for expedition - not rock crawling.

Originally Posted by bkfj40

......anyone got a job number for this so I can bill someone for this ?

Send me your bill - I'd love to tell you where to put it

[IPOR]

Okay guys, let's try to keep it civil here.

Tom, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you're reacting to what your gut tells you. There's nothing wrong with that, sometimes our instincts are right on the mark. I think the point BK is trying to make is that with a more objective viewpoint you may find that the risk is overstated.

The simple fact is that we have had literally hundreds of these skids in use for years on some of the most hardcore 80's on the trail today without a single report of bolt failure. There are 8 bolts holding the crossmember on and you'd have to lose at least 4, all on the same side at the same time to compromise the crossmember. We have field tested this skid under severe circumstances (the example above is just one of many) with no such problems. What appears to you as a weak point has thus far proven through actual use to be a non-issue.

That doesn't mean I disagree with protecting the bolts wherever possible, but a statement like, "serious and disasterous consequences" implies that failure is likely when it is in fact NOT likely and grossly overstates the result.

You make a good point and I appreciate your input. Let's try to stick with constructive criticism and move on.

[IPOR]

Originally Posted by CreeperSleeper

Two different approaches to the same problem and I think we both acomplished the goal!

Right on Chad. I like your approach, in fact I built many just like it before settling on the current IPOR design. One of the requirements as I'm sure you have found in building these is repeatability. For this reason I like to keep the number of pieces in a single assembly to a minimum, and to leave as much as possible to the laser - it's accurate to .004".

There are certainly other ways to build a great skid for an 80, and there's no better place to acid test a design than here on Mud where people really use their 'cruisers. Hopefully this thread will lead us to further advances with both.

"redneck with a welder" he says...

[CreeperSleeper]

Originally Posted by IPOR

Right on Chad. I like your approach, in fact I built many just like it before settling on the current IPOR design. One of the requirements as I'm sure you have found in building these is repeatability. For this reason I like to keep the number of pieces in a single assembly to a minimum, and to leave as much as possible to the laser - it's accurate to .004".

There are certainly other ways to build a great skid for an 80, and there's no better place to acid test a design than here on Mud where people really use their 'cruisers. Hopefully this thread will lead us to further advances with both.

"redneck with a welder" he says...

I tell ya what... If I was mass producing these and had access to a lazer cutter, it would look a lot like yours!

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by IPOR

"redneck with a welder" he says...

And the sad part? His skid plate is prettier than mine!