Drivetrain issue at 75mph on I-89 tonight in NH

[bloc]

OP did say the wrecker mentioned oil under the truck.

Someone that knows what they are doing (Zuk comes to mind) could probably look at the gears and bearings and tell whether it was a lubrication issue or an actual failure of equipment. I can’t. Would be very curious to see pictures of the failed part though, if you can manage that @blackpaper

What I do know is failures of this part are EXTREMELY rare. Like this is probably one of a handful, ever, in 200s, that weren’t lubrication caused, if it is an actual part failure

 

[jivewalker]

Could a failed u joint maybe cause enough vibration/wobble to cause the diff bearing seal to fail and leak out the fluid? Just another possibility other than random failure.

 

[Sandroad]

OP did say the wrecker mentioned oil under the truck.

Someone that knows what they are doing (Zuk comes to mind) could probably look at the gears and bearings and tell whether it was a lubrication issue or an actual failure of equipment. I can’t. Would be very curious to see pictures of the failed part though, if you can manage that @blackpaper

What I do know is failures of this part are EXTREMELY rare. Like this is probably one of a handful, ever, in 200s, that weren’t lubrication caused, if it is an actual part failure

Post 33 shows the extremely loose pinion bearing in the video. It’s pretty much gone. And the undercarriage looks clean. Wouldn’t that be all covered in gear oil if the seal let go ?

 

[1world1love]

I’ll be interested to see how this turns out, but according to the Op, this truck was in a Toyota shop for 90k service. It would have been on a rack where presumably, somebody would have at least visually inspected the drivetrain.

Two weeks later an incredibly unlikely failure happens?

 

[linuxgod]

I’ll be interested to see how this turns out, but according to the Op, this truck was in a Toyota shop for 90k service. It would have been on a rack where presumably, somebody would have at least visually inspected the drivetrain.

Two weeks later an incredibly unlikely failure happens?

I would agree with that assessment. If the pinion bearing was starting to go it would wobble in the race and there would’ve been oil leaking past the seal. During the service the tech should have noticed that.

I don’t know if a lack of gear oil would cause the pinion bearing to give out but leave everything else ok. Id presume the entire rear is shot

$3300 is a lot of $ for the repair. I’m assuming they are rebuilding the entire rear wind and replacing the gears as well for that cost. I had an independent shop do new front and rear gears along with all bearings as well as lockers and the whole thing was under $6k for both diffs

 

[bloc]

Post 33 shows the extremely loose pinion bearing in the video. It’s pretty much gone. And the undercarriage looks clean. Wouldn’t that be all covered in gear oil if the seal let go ?

I had to get under my truck after the first day of snowpocalypse here in Austin, where we were driving in ~6” of soft powder snow at up to freeway speeds. The thing was absolutely immaculate. The snow had blasted all traces of dirt and 170k miles of road use right into oblivion. I’m not kidding, it looked brand new other than chips in frame and axle paint from my off road adventures.

So.. not necessarily. If the wrecker driver is to be believed I could imagine some gear oil or grease sticking to the back side of the axle housing.

Plus.. if the previous shop didn’t fill it, there wouldn’t be much oil to coat everything.

Could a failed u joint maybe cause enough vibration/wobble to cause the diff bearing seal to fail and leak out the fluid? Just another possibility other than random failure.

I doubt it… a major reason these things so rarely fail is the bearings are huge which to me seems like it would support a significant imbalance at least for a while. The shaft still seems mostly in-line. Plus there would be some evidence of the u-joint failure still present. Rust/orange dust coming from the cap seals, for instance.

To me it’s more likely that the dying pinion bearings killed the rear u-joint through vibration, but that would take a close look to see if it’s present.


@blackpaper have you established whether the 90k service included ANY work to the differentials? Even just verifying fluid level? Changing fluid is in the maintenance schedule, but often gets skipped.

 

[Moby]

If the bearing died from lack of lubrication likely the gears and everything else are toast. I got a few wire brush pieces in my FJ-62 third and it was enough to chew the face of the ring gear enough to make noise. If the diff is empty of oil I'd replace the gears even if they don't say to. But I'd rather have a 3rd party that does gears all day long set them up. Unless the tech is convincing that this is something that they do regularly. If you are on stock gearing I would definitely get a Toyota ring and pinion set however.

 

[blackpaper]

@bloc I called Wellesley Toyota about whether they changed the fluid in the differentials as part of the 90k service. Yes it was included. Unclear whether they refilled it after draining.

I am so upset about the $3300 cost. I got in touch with the Wellesley service manager who said he is in contact with white River Toyota about what may have gone on. Like most of you, I don’t believe things like this happen by coincidence right after a major service.

 

[bjowett]

If you end up having to eat this... The stock rear diff is part # 41110-60A10 and can be purchased new from Toyota for under $1500. Have an independent shop slam it home.... probably get out of it for under $2k.

 

[04UZJ100]

@bloc I called Wellesley Toyota about whether they changed the fluid in the differentials as part of the 90k service. Yes it was included. Unclear whether they refilled it after draining.

I am so upset about the $3300 cost. I got in touch with the Wellesley service manager who said he is in contact with white River Toyota about what may have gone on. Like most of you, I don’t believe things like this happen by coincidence right after a major service.

There’s your answer. Glad they put engine oil in your truck as it’s apparent they didn’t put any diff oil in it.

 

[CharlieS]

@bloc I called Wellesley Toyota about whether they changed the fluid in the differentials as part of the 90k service. Yes it was included. Unclear whether they refilled it after draining.

I am so upset about the $3300 cost. I got in touch with the Wellesley service manager who said he is in contact with white River Toyota about what may have gone on. Like most of you, I don’t believe things like this happen by coincidence right after a major service.

Wellesley Toyota needs to make this right. Hopefully they stand behind their work. Yes, mistakes happen, but changing diff fluid is no different on a 200 than it is on a Tundra, Tacoma, Sequoia, etc.

Diffs and especially bearings don't live long lives when run dry.

The part that makes me angry as I re-read this is that you had your two young kids in the vehicle and could have easily been stranded on the side of I89 in below zero temperatures the other night. That's no good. You should be able to trust in the dealer to do a normal service correctly, especially since they charge a premium for their work.

Please let us know how this evolves.

 

[bloc]

The part that makes me angry as I re-read this is that you had your two young kids in the vehicle and could have easily been stranded on the side of I89 in below zero temperatures the other night.

This part of the story should be highlighted.

Also even if the dealer installs it, absolutely follow @bjowett ’s advice about the whole diff as a unit. You do not want that dealer, or even a local shop, setting up diff gears if you want this thing to go as far as a factory Toyota diff.

Edit: the dealer's $3300 quote is probably largely based on the above part number retailing for $2156.

 

[1world1love]

There’s your answer. Glad they put engine oil in your truck as it’s apparent they didn’t put any diff oil in it.

Yep. Once they start looking, they'll find they have a surplus of diff fluid in inventory. No mystery what happened.

 

[CharlieS]

Yep. Once they start looking, they'll find they have a surplus of diff fluid in inventory. No mystery what happened.

I'd have the dealer that has the truck now recheck all the fluids and anything touched by Wellesley to make sure there weren't other things overlooked that you just haven't noticed yet. Maybe over the top, but better safe than sorry.

 

[linuxgod]

I'd have the dealer that has the truck now recheck all the fluids and anything touched by Wellesley to make sure there weren't other things overlooked that you just haven't noticed yet. Maybe over the top, but better safe than sorry.

I was going to suggest this as well. We're all assuming the rear diff was not refilled (which is possible) but perhaps it was filled with the wrong oil. Motor oil instead of gear oil, or something... I don't really know. Big shops often pump it out of a gun/wand from a central drum. If there was fluid it's possible they filled diffs, t-case, etc with the wrong fluid. I would definitely have the shop confirm everything touched was done correctly (all fluids topped off and gear boxes containing the right stuff) so you don't have the same issue with your front diff or transfer case on the way home...

 

[blackpaper]

I really appreciate all the comments on my situation. On my way back to Boston this morning, I stopped by White River Toyota to take some pictures of the underbody. I could not spend much time at White River Toyota as I had to get my 2nd-grader back to school. It does not sound like they see many Landcruisers at that dealership as the service greeter said they see "1 or 2 Landcruisers or Sequoias each month". Part of the reason I go to Wellesley Toyota for service is that they see a lot of Landcruisers. To get the car closer to me to better manage the repair, I asked about a tow and the first company said it'd cost $825. The White River's tech writing off this incident due to age makes me suspect of their ability to diagnose and repair problems.

 

[TLC2013]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the land cruiser. Total nightmare. Hope it all works out in your favor. How far is the tow you are looking at doing ? AAA platinum costs around $120 a year and you get one 200 mile tow included in the plan. Saved my hide plenty of times.

 

[bloc]

As long as they install the whole differential third member as a unit it is a pretty easy job, and not a lot to mess up. It is setting up the gears that requires a lot of precision and experience.

But, if the original shop having it in their hands can make holding them responsible more streamlined, not a bad idea.

Have they had anything to say about how coincidental this seems?

 

[blackpaper]

As long as they install the whole differential third member as a unit it is a pretty easy job, and not a lot to mess up. It is setting up the gears that requires a lot of precision and experience.

But, if the original shop having it in their hands can make holding them responsible more streamlined, not a bad idea.

Have they had anything to say about how coincidental this seems?

@bloc the Wellesley Toyota service manager, James, said on the phone that they have seen cases where the differential fluid was not replaced after draining it. He said he will be in touch with the White River Toyota service contact for this incident to understand what may have caused the issue. With many people being out these days, I expect that I will next get an update from either Toyota dealer sometime tomorrow, Wednesday.

 

[bjowett]

Looking at those pictures, I'd wager no/low fluid. Did anyone actually inspect the fluid level? With that much slop on the pinion yoke, it should be puking gear lube...