Builds dougbert's future 350 swap: How much torque is too much?

[Elbert]

We left the fenders on, removed the grill, radiator support middle brace, radiator, condensor and fan shroud. Removed all the emissions crap off the driver side fender well, removeda the coil and related wiring from the passenger fender well. I did not cut any wires...just disconnected them and taged them as to what function they did and labled the tag. I left all the hoses connected to the engine where possbile to save time and removed the other end where required. Also removed the fuel hoses from the engine compartment area and any other misc emssions crap. Kept a large can for storage of the misc bolts and hard fastners that came off. Removed engine,transmission and transfer case all at one time.

Also removed the hood.

 

[norsk]

We left the fenders on, removed the grill, radiator support middle brace, radiator, condensor and fan shroud. Removed all the emissions **** off the driver side fender well, removeda the coil and related wiring from the passenger fender well. I did not cut any wires...just disconnected them and taged them as to what function they did and labled the tag. I left all the hoses connected to the engine where possbile to save time and removed the other end where required. Also removed the fuel hoses from the engine compartment area and any other misc emssions ****. Kept a large can for storage of the misc bolts and hard fastners that came off. Removed engine,transmission and transfer case all at one time.

Also removed the hood.

thanks, at least all the emission **** is already gone.

 

[norsk]

UPDATE: Now that my fj60 is offline at the moment and I have gotten some needed cash infusion, I am reviewing my SBC build recipe, in order to push forward my new carb'ed Vortec SBC:

Parts completed and already purchased:

1) I have the completed short block as per above posts
2) My new CAM has shipped from www.atlanticspeed.com
https://www.atlanticspeed.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=7843
3) My new hyd roller lifters are also enroute
4) 1.5 inch block hugger headers to 2.5 inch combiner pipe
5) Rebuilt the donor QuadraJet, by myself

After more research and advice from others on this board (thanks BTW), I went with the smaller Comp Cams 4x4 cam, because it is reported to generate the best lower RPM torque, which is what I want for offroading.

Current recipe for future parts:

1) GM BowTie Vortec gen2 heads, from jegs which seems have the best deal in product and shipping $515 each, including the shipping
http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance/809/25534421/10002/-1

2) LEARNED I need self-aligning Comp Cams Ultra Magnum Roller Rockers $310 and free shipping, 1.52 ratio
http://www.streetsideauto.com/p/competition-cams-ultra-pro-magnum-1617-16/l

On rocker ratio, I found an article http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0101_roller_rocker_ratio_test/viewall.html which discusses the differences with 1.5 vs 1.6. From that, I believe for my target engine, the 1.5 ratio will generate better low end torage

3) Intake manifold
I have been looking at the Edelbrock 2116 Vortec for abt $190
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2116/10002/-1

Yet I have also found the Professional Products 52003 that is so "shiny" for $225
http://www.dragtimes.com/parts/5200...MANIFOLD-SBC-1966-AND-LATER_330634782945.html

Pondering if the shiny is worth it. I do have other shiny parts already or planned.


4) Proform TALL side mount, Valve covers $130
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proform-GM-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5aebda3223&vxp=mtr

plus other stuff


Thoughts and Opinions welcome, if there is any interest

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

I think you have made some reasonable choices. The performer dual plane intake is a good all around intake. The GM vortec 5.7 heads are known quality. I would not put any shiny items on the 4*4 ...offroad things don't stay shiny.
I think the vortec heads require a special rocker arm (?)

I like the dart iron eagle heads too, for old school setups.

I would stick to stock ratios and configurations where possible.

 

[lehiguy]

I think you have made some reasonable choices. The performer dual plane intake is a good all around intake. The GM vortec 5.7 heads are known quality. I would not put any shiny items on the 4*4 ...offroad things don't stay shiny.
I think the vortec heads require a special rocker arm (?)

I like the dart iron eagle heads too, for old school setups.

I would stick to stock ratios and configurations where possible.

Vortecs require 3/8" self-aligning rockers. They also require center-bolt valve covers and they have a unique intake manifold mounting arrnagement. There may not be any Vortecs with a large enough chamber to work on a 383. I would suspect that dished pistons would be the preffered way to go if Vortecs are on the menum but that looks like water under the bridge.

 

[Elbert]

Vortecs require 3/8" self-aligning rockers. They also require center-bolt valve covers and they have a unique intake manifold mounting arrnagement. There may not be any Vortecs with a large enough chamber to work on a 383. I would suspect that dished pistons would be the preffered way to go if Vortecs are on the menum but that looks like water under the bridge.

Did I miss something in the writeup...I thought the OP was talking about a 5.7? The intake he posted is of the vortec mount type...so he has the intake matched with the heads if he chooses to go that route.

Of course if you change cylinder heads you have to pay attention to the intake manifold as well.

 

[norsk]

The 383 reference came from the first post when I was pondering doing a 383. I went back to just do the 350 and as it turned out with .060 over, it is now a 360, with duel valve relief pistons.

The above listed intake is a spread bore vortec, as are the heads.

(I am investigating the self-aligning rocker issue vs using guides. That is still in investigation phase.)
Updated on rockers: Comp Cams 1617-16 are their self-aligning rocker, 3/8 stud
all is good, but won't fit center hole covers, so need edge cover mounts, and the
covers need to be TALL.

thanks, it is great to have someone to bounce things/ideas off of.

dougbert

 

[lehiguy]

The 383 reference came from the first post when I was pondering doing a 383. I went back to just do the 350 and as it turned out with .060 over, it is now a 360, with duel valve relief pistons.

The above listed intake is a spread bore vortec, as are the heads.

(I am investigating the self-aligning rocker issue vs using guides. That is still in investigation phase.)
Updated on rockers: Comp Cams 1617-16 are their self-aligning rocker, 3/8 stud
all is good, but won't fit center hole covers, so need edge cover mounts, and the
covers need to be TALL.

thanks, it is great to have someone to bounce things/ideas off of.

dougbert

I bought some aluminum valve covers on FleaBay and they clear my roller rockers just fine.

 

[norsk]

I bought some aluminum valve covers on FleaBay and they clear my roller rockers just fine.

we think alike.

Do you still have that 14 bolt diff?
I am still debating whether to keep the TLC TC with the adapter or do your way.


BTW, my lifters came in and the CAM is due in next tuesday - then I can finish the bottom end

dougberrt

 

[lehiguy]

we think alike.

Do you still have that 14 bolt diff?
I am still debating whether to keep the TLC TC with the adapter or do your way.


BTW, my lifters came in and the CAM is due in next tuesday - then I can finish the bottom end

dougberrt

I don't have the extra one, but I can tell you what to look for if you go that route so you can avoid the mistakes I made on the brakes.

 

[norsk]

Mid-way to pulling the 2F engine. Sold some items.

dougbert

 

[norsk]

What are good solutions to clean the frame and other items that have all the old road crud on them?
Solvants? High pressure wash? other? Combinations of those? Multiple applications?

Thinking of using Rust Bullet after cleanup and new mounts put in. Want to protect against rust at almost all costs

dougbert

 

[ntsqd]

What do you have access to?
I use a combo of purple cleaner and high pressure washer. Steam would be even better, but it was 5X more expensive than just a pressure washer. Run hot water thru the pressure washer if you can (just be careful not to get too hot for the pump).

 

[norsk]

thanks for the tips

Here are some pics of what I got done today:

New CAM Arrived and installed today along with the roller cam thrust button and 3 ARP bolts. Thanks to the couple of sets of DVDs (on SBC rebuilding), youtube and the reference books, I made a (small) step forward. I check then recheck what I am suppose to do, and then still made a mistake - put the crank sprocket on backwards. Easy to fix, had to go rent a pulley puller from OReilley's and then returned it.

Starting to make progress after a long dry spell. Now I need the timing cover.....Please Santa.....

dougbert

 

[norsk]

I forgot to take a pic of the cam prior to installing, and I am not taking it out, so here is a pic of the box, and then of the roller lifter - hey on a thread that takes this long, every forward movement is celebrated

dougbert

 

[norsk]

Got the timing cover, got it installed, oil pan buttoned up.

 

[norsk]

more pics

the thrust button was positioned at .005 inch, so within the spec for this roller cam and the timing cover

dougbert

 

[ntsqd]

What seals that cover's upper and lower halves where they meet each other?

 

[norsk]

What seals that cover's upper and lower halves where they meet each other?

Blue RTV.
No formal gasket at all for the front two pieces where they attach to the "block ring", as they called it. Instructions say to use the silicone RTV and carefully form them.
After a few minutes I did wipe the center line of excessive RTV, therefore you don't really see it. On the outter edge you can see the excess RTV which I have not
wiped off

Articles indicate that this cover can be a source of oil leaks, but that careful "gasket" forming can prevent that.

One issue I had was that I had previously bought the "thrust button" from comp cams, and when I first installed it the cover would not close - oops

after a few words, I went back to the instructions (very brief, no pictures to show what the names mean) and then to the packet of "parts". Low and behold, there was an included thrust button and it was shorter than what I had purchased prior - oh oh, there are different lengths? - the one in the packet fit and it came with 4 washer shims that fit under the button. So we experimented with different combinations of the shims until we got .005 inches which is in the limits of .001 and .005. One does need a dial meter, which I had picked up a few months ago.

I like the feel and the look of the cover, it works, but the instructions were brief and no diagrams or pictures. I spent some time re-reading it and experimenting with parts to get the mental model of how to put it together with the thrust, etc.

The parts packets comes with new screws to replace any on the future water pump. These new screws are a low head and will help give space between the cover and the long pump back face.

As I mentioned, I also got the oil pan put on. I took my time on this, with good adhesive on the gasket, black RTV silicone in the corners, allowed it to dry better, and slowly tightened bolts down to 12 ft-lbs (144 inch-lbs) on a 3/8 drive small torque wrench. SO MUCH better than the 1./2 drive BIG torque wrench.

The thrust measure hole is just above the crank shaft, with a button screw. After measuring, I applied some RTV to the threads and screwed it in until it bottomed out.
The parts kit comes with two different height marks, one for a small harmonic balancers and one for a larger balancer (I have an 8" one). They can be adjusted with a 10 degree range
I believe

Price: $242 with free shipping from Amazon, was the cheapest I found for this part

The cam, the cover, the button, etc are all COMP CAMs products, which gave me some assurance it would work AND a phone number to call
for advice if I ran into problems - which I didn't use.

It has the strength to handle the thrust button pusing on it and looks beefer than the original cover.

dougbert

 

[norsk]

ARGHHH!

the rented balancer tools from Oreillys was worn and the 7/16-20 tools bit, is short and upon installing the balancer, it stripped the outer part of the threads.
The ARP bolt fits well in the deeper part of the thread well

Afterward I measured the tool bit and it is .003 inch smaller than the ARP bolt I was putting in.

Options are:

1) Helicoil it, but the insert is only .6xx inches in length and the stripped threads are over 1 inch before the inner good threads. I want good threads the entire length

2) tap to 1/2-20 Big block chevy snout size bolt

I am working on option 2

Ordered a good (I hope) quality Proform SBC balancers installation tool, which works with SBC and BBC cranks, and a good removal tool (since my balancer is part way on)

oh well, that's the game we play

dougbert