- Thread starter
- #81
Sounds good. Packig up the truck right now.
Doing SOA over Christmas Break! The never ending saga!!!
- Thread starter Randy88FJ62
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Well I got there at 9 this morning and after making a donut run because Randy didn't, him and I got to work. Seth, Alf, Mark, Dave and an old TrailCrew member Joel came by to assist. By the time I left at 1pm we had successfully taken out both axles and had the rear axle already stripped down.
How far did you guys get by the time you all left? Everything done so that we don't have to head out there tomorrow?
How far did you guys get by the time you all left? Everything done so that we don't have to head out there tomorrow?
- Thread starter
- #83
The front perches are welded on. I still need to rebuild the front and put the discs on the rear. Then put both axles under the truck. Springs are in on front and ready to go in on rear.
I'll be there around 9am until dark.
I'll be there around 9am until dark.
I couldn't make it today, and I only have one cellphone pic from yesterday --
All I can say is thank God somebody (don't remember who) realized, as Seth was getting ready to torch off the old perches, that the two drums being used as stands contained flammable stuff! Now who gave us those stands... ???
Now that woudda been FUN!
Hope Sunday went well for you guys!
All I can say is thank God somebody (don't remember who) realized, as Seth was getting ready to torch off the old perches, that the two drums being used as stands contained flammable stuff! Now who gave us those stands... ???
Now that woudda been FUN!
Hope Sunday went well for you guys!
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Many more pics needed. Is it drivable?
Freaking Randy AGAIN with those drums. There is a REALLY funny story about those stupid drums.
I just left Randy after I put in my few hours and the truck is a rolling chassis where it was stuffed into a corner. I did something for him that he would never do for himself. I fixed his wiring issue and potential his starter issue forever, and I took notes on what he needs to still do in detail. Its a long list and he has time to attack everything while the front axle is out being cut-n-turned.
yes we should have taken pics....but its not my truck so
I just left Randy after I put in my few hours and the truck is a rolling chassis where it was stuffed into a corner. I did something for him that he would never do for himself. I fixed his wiring issue and potential his starter issue forever, and I took notes on what he needs to still do in detail. Its a long list and he has time to attack everything while the front axle is out being cut-n-turned.
yes we should have taken pics....but its not my truck so
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Freaking Randy AGAIN with those drums. There is a REALLY funny story about those stupid drums.
I just left Randy after I put in my few hours and the truck is a rolling chassis where it was stuffed into a corner. I did something for him that he would never do for himself. I fixed his wiring issue and potential his starter issue forever, and I took notes on what he needs to still do in detail. Its a long list and he has time to attack everything while the front axle is out being cut-n-turned.
yes we should have taken pics....but its not my truck so
So rather than being coy, just post up what happened. Is the truck spring over? What is the resulting caster? Can it be driven on the road? What problems did you run into that you didn't expect?
What exactly did you do to the wiring and the starter, and what was wrong with it beforehand.
How about a pic or two?
Unfortunately Randy was asking me through this forum to take pics but it was just me and him to start yesterday and just me and him to end today and a few people in between slamming away at it. So there was no time to work the camera in. And to be honest I didn't think about it because we were all trying to power through it to get it a rolling chassis before his dad tanned his hide for not getting the truck out of the way in time.
The truck as it sits is FAR from complete. I had a long talk with Randy about planning and organization and I think after this project he is getting the idea.
The truck is ONLY a rolling chassis at this point. He has another housing that he is sending out to be cut-n turned. See that could have been done months ago be eh.
The pitman arm needs to be replaced to fit his new 4X Labs hi-steer and tie rods/linkage. The driveshaft needs to be redone. The new parking cable system with the S-10 rear calipers needs to be worked out. The shocks need to be figured out after the Ford towers get welded in. The rear perches need to be welded in. The sway bars need to be done up along with extending the bump stops.
The wire issue he had was first that the ground cable from the battery was shrink tubed in red and the positive side was shrink tuned in black so that has been a cause of some of his issues in the past. He can tell you about his shop experience. So I marked them appropriately. Then I noticed that the ground strap was connected to the battery over a tiny little connector. The ground lug was barely touching the small connector. Turns out that small connector was the ground for the headlights that he redid. Well it doesn't need to be on the battery at all but it was preventing the ground strap from making a good ground. I checked with a volt meter on the connections and now I was getting 12.4V. He started the truck right up. No problems at all. When I check it before he was getting just around 11V at the connections.
From what I can see and his work schedule and the time to get the axle back, I think it will be about a month to get it drivable.
I will say that Randy took a lot of abuse from all of us but he learned a lot and he worked his ass off. I also went over the theory of dual battery systems and explained fully how an alternator works and why having a stadium full of lights on his truck may not be the best idea with his stock single battery and stock alternator.
If you were to ask him now, I am pretty sure he would say that he should have gone with a SUA lift instead.
The truck as it sits is FAR from complete. I had a long talk with Randy about planning and organization and I think after this project he is getting the idea.
The truck is ONLY a rolling chassis at this point. He has another housing that he is sending out to be cut-n turned. See that could have been done months ago be eh.
The pitman arm needs to be replaced to fit his new 4X Labs hi-steer and tie rods/linkage. The driveshaft needs to be redone. The new parking cable system with the S-10 rear calipers needs to be worked out. The shocks need to be figured out after the Ford towers get welded in. The rear perches need to be welded in. The sway bars need to be done up along with extending the bump stops.
The wire issue he had was first that the ground cable from the battery was shrink tubed in red and the positive side was shrink tuned in black so that has been a cause of some of his issues in the past. He can tell you about his shop experience. So I marked them appropriately. Then I noticed that the ground strap was connected to the battery over a tiny little connector. The ground lug was barely touching the small connector. Turns out that small connector was the ground for the headlights that he redid. Well it doesn't need to be on the battery at all but it was preventing the ground strap from making a good ground. I checked with a volt meter on the connections and now I was getting 12.4V. He started the truck right up. No problems at all. When I check it before he was getting just around 11V at the connections.
From what I can see and his work schedule and the time to get the axle back, I think it will be about a month to get it drivable.
I will say that Randy took a lot of abuse from all of us but he learned a lot and he worked his ass off. I also went over the theory of dual battery systems and explained fully how an alternator works and why having a stadium full of lights on his truck may not be the best idea with his stock single battery and stock alternator.
If you were to ask him now, I am pretty sure he would say that he should have gone with a SUA lift instead.
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Well at least progress is being made. The electrical issue sounds pretty convoluted but at least it's figured out. As for the front axle, it's rolling but is the caster not right on the front? Is the housing he sent out a 62 housing or a 60 housing?
My rig is sitting waiting on the rear axle, so I feel your pain. Hopefully the end result will make all the pains worth while.
Good luck with the rest of the build!
My rig is sitting waiting on the rear axle, so I feel your pain. Hopefully the end result will make all the pains worth while.
Good luck with the rest of the build!
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Hmmm...I sent him a Pittman that will get the truck drivable and will not hit even with fairly significant flex. It's already reamed for the 1 ton ends.
So if you welded on perches, are they on the old housing, or the one that will be cut and turned? It seems a shame to build an axle twice.
I tried to talk him out of the rear discs awhile back, especially given that the stock drums are so good, but I can see wanting to have discs. It's just that the parking brake cable ends up being a hack, and the GM parking brake mechanism has a bad reputation for actually working. Stock FJ60 stuff works surprisingly well if you take the time to free up the bellcranks.
The rear axle is cake. Literally a 2 hour job start to finish. The hardest part is deciding how to do the lower shock mount.
I can send some part numbers for Bilstein shocks that work great in SOA 60s. I also recommend NOT welding the Ford towers until you have the shocks in hand, to avoid mis-aligning the top.
The VERY LAST step is the driveshafts. Get the spring over done, then measure flange to flange, and have the shop size them to the right length. Dave or Mark will know a good driveline shop down there.
Looking forward to Randy's comments and a pic or two.
So if you welded on perches, are they on the old housing, or the one that will be cut and turned? It seems a shame to build an axle twice.
I tried to talk him out of the rear discs awhile back, especially given that the stock drums are so good, but I can see wanting to have discs. It's just that the parking brake cable ends up being a hack, and the GM parking brake mechanism has a bad reputation for actually working. Stock FJ60 stuff works surprisingly well if you take the time to free up the bellcranks.
The rear axle is cake. Literally a 2 hour job start to finish. The hardest part is deciding how to do the lower shock mount.
I can send some part numbers for Bilstein shocks that work great in SOA 60s. I also recommend NOT welding the Ford towers until you have the shocks in hand, to avoid mis-aligning the top.
The VERY LAST step is the driveshafts. Get the spring over done, then measure flange to flange, and have the shop size them to the right length. Dave or Mark will know a good driveline shop down there.
Looking forward to Randy's comments and a pic or two.
He just needs a pitman puller to get it swapped out.
Well the rear that is being used, the perches were not welded. The front that is NOT being used has welded perches. So yeah, pretty much going to have to redo it over again. Its easy enough at this point.
We ALL tried to talk him out of it. Me, Mark Algazy, Dave West, Spike Strip, Seth, Joel, Randy's mom, the donut shop owner...
But he says he "might as well install them since he has them". Ranyd knows best but he really needs to find out what what works for him. He needs a point of reference.
Talk to him again, he is worried about the location of the UPPER shock mount
Me too but I dont think he took pics either.
Pretty sure he is using the 62 housing. Nothing about castor has been worked out.
It's gonna be a while folks.
1. Within 5 minutes of putting the truck back on the ground sprung over, the rear springs were already inverting.
2. I told Randy I wouldn't weld the rear perches in place until I dealt with getting the springs to the height and position he planned on, which would involve adding the approximate weight of the full size spare and camping gear to the back of the rig as well.
3. And of course, you're not gonna settle on a driveshaft length until you've rotated the pinion, which you're not gonna do til you set the spring pack. AND....he's probably gonna change the shackle length as well!
4. AND he's still toying with a shackle reversal for the front, which is going to change front lift yet again, and if it lifts the front any more [and I have a strong suspicion it will] then that's gonna throw more weight to the rear, and change the geometry of the spring pack yet again.
5. Andy, Randy never bothered to ask me to bring a pitman arm puller along, and I'm not a mind reader, sooo..................
6. Of course, he didn't ask me to bring a rear axle bearing puller with me yesterday, which is why I ended up taking the housing back to my shop to install new rear axle bearings for him. And yeah, if I were doing this at the shop, I'd have welded the rear axle perches on BEFORE changing the axle bearings and seals.
I think he was glad I was there.
1. Within 5 minutes of putting the truck back on the ground sprung over, the rear springs were already inverting.
2. I told Randy I wouldn't weld the rear perches in place until I dealt with getting the springs to the height and position he planned on, which would involve adding the approximate weight of the full size spare and camping gear to the back of the rig as well.
3. And of course, you're not gonna settle on a driveshaft length until you've rotated the pinion, which you're not gonna do til you set the spring pack. AND....he's probably gonna change the shackle length as well!
4. AND he's still toying with a shackle reversal for the front, which is going to change front lift yet again, and if it lifts the front any more [and I have a strong suspicion it will] then that's gonna throw more weight to the rear, and change the geometry of the spring pack yet again.
5. Andy, Randy never bothered to ask me to bring a pitman arm puller along, and I'm not a mind reader, sooo..................
6. Of course, he didn't ask me to bring a rear axle bearing puller with me yesterday, which is why I ended up taking the housing back to my shop to install new rear axle bearings for him. And yeah, if I were doing this at the shop, I'd have welded the rear axle perches on BEFORE changing the axle bearings and seals.
I think he was glad I was there.
'Drew, the 5000 series billies I've heard haven't worked to well. Either they weren't firm enough or they leaked after a year or so. The 5125's were ok but the 5150's leaked so boots4 is about to run the 7100's. I'm waiting on his report until I buy mine.
The driveshaft can be lengthened by using your stock shaft as a reference. Make it to the same specs and you'll be ok.
I've been told 4-5* caster is the money shot.
You guys sound like you're having as much fun as I am doing my SOA,
The driveshaft can be lengthened by using your stock shaft as a reference. Make it to the same specs and you'll be ok.
I've been told 4-5* caster is the money shot.
You guys sound like you're having as much fun as I am doing my SOA,
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
He just needs a pitman puller to get it swapped out.
Well the rear that is being used, the perches were not welded. The front that is NOT being used has welded perches. So yeah, pretty much going to have to redo it over again. Its easy enough at this point.
We ALL tried to talk him out of it. Me, Mark Algazy, Dave West, Spike Strip, Seth, Joel, Randy's mom, the donut shop owner...
But he says he "might as well install them since he has them". Ranyd knows best but he really needs to find out what what works for him. He needs a point of reference.
Talk to him again, he is worried about the location of the UPPER shock mount
Me too but I dont think he took pics either.
Well-In the rear, the #1, most important, paramount, extreme thing, is getting the pinion angle just right. So waiting to burn in the perches is probably a good thing. Then set it up properly with the DC shaft that was mentioned in another thread.
The GM ebrake is going to suck, but you can always go back to stock later I think.
The upper shock mount-I just used the stock one and it works fine. No need to re-invent the wheel. Some tip the shock in and redrill the upper mount, but that puts the shock at a mechanical disadvantage and it doesn't damp the spring as well.
If the perches were welded in the front, how did you set the caster without installing the axle back under the springs? It's pretty important to get that spot on. It's perfectly acceptable to do it that way, but caster still has to be 2-4 degrees.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
It's gonna be a while folks.
1. Within 5 minutes of putting the truck back on the ground sprung over, the rear springs were already inverting.
2. I told Randy I wouldn't weld the rear perches in place until I dealt with getting the springs to the height and position he planned on, which would involve adding the approximate weight of the full size spare and camping gear to the back of the rig as well.
3. And of course, you're not gonna settle on a driveshaft length until you've rotated the pinion, which you're not gonna do til you set the spring pack. AND....he's probably gonna change the shackle length as well!
4. AND he's still toying with a shackle reversal for the front, which is going to change front lift yet again, and if it lifts the front any more [and I have a strong suspicion it will] then that's gonna throw more weight to the rear, and change the geometry of the spring pack yet again.
5. Andy, Randy never bothered to ask me to bring a pitman arm puller along, and I'm not a mind reader, sooo..................
6. Of course, he didn't ask me to bring a rear axle bearing puller with me yesterday, which is why I ended up taking the housing back to my shop to install new rear axle bearings for him. And yeah, if I were doing this at the shop, I'd have welded the rear axle perches on BEFORE changing the axle bearings and seals.
I think he was glad I was there.
Alright-some solid info from a trusted source.
The rear springs inverting is weird. I added 2 leafs to mine before starting the project and they are the same height now that they were in November. This is just opinion, but the springs need to be significantly beefier than stock-either a long AAL or extra leaves from other stock springs. This has a side benifit of helping to control axle wrap. Funny-when I set mine up, I threw a whole bunch of old parts in the back to simulate the weight of a bumper-2 H42s, a complete 40 series rear axle, some Subaru seats, basically all the junk I had close at hand in the garage.
Randy--DO NOT DO A SHACKLE REVERSAL. Seriously, it is not needed and adds a bunch of undesirable characteristics to your build. I did one on my 40, and it works well, but you will need an expensive long travel front shaft, and it really screws with the geometry of the cut and turn which you would need to take into account before the "turn" is welded. It's hard to explain, but I could show you in an instant on my truck. It does not make the truck drive any better at all, and you loose the desirable anti-dive characteristics of the front end. BTDT, DON"T DO IT. And use the stock shackles. They are the right length to use with stock springs and they are free and extremely strong.
THe Bilstein shocks rock. If you have money, get the 7100s. If you are trying to fly under the radar, use the 5125s. The 5150s have a bad rep for leaking. Don't use them.
I had Rancho 9000s on the 60 for a month, and went to the Bilsteins. I don't know how or why but the Bilsteins are great-they totally get it. Over small stuff they are soft and controlled and over big stuff they are very firm and controlled. That variable load sensing thing must be real because I can't say enough good about them, and I've used Everything from stock Toyota to OME to Ranchos and now Bilsteins. 5125s = HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
Your comment about the shafts is simply, well, wrong.
The final flange to flange distance is what matters. In Randy's case, the spring over makes it too short, tipping up the pinion gets some of it back. the suspension is more flexy, so you need to preserve the available slip in the slip joint. You can't just guess at a length, there are too many variables.2-4 degrees is the sweet spot with big tires. Beyond that the steering can get heavy. I usually aim for 4 with bigger tires and I'm sure 5 would be Ok too, just not optimal. Remember stock Cruisers come with 1-2 degrees of caster.
THe Bilstein shocks rock. If you have money, get the 7100s. If you are trying to fly under the radar, use the 5125s. The 5150s have a bad rep for leaking. Don't use them.
I had Rancho 9000s on the 60 for a month, and went to the Bilsteins. I don't know how or why but the Bilsteins are great-they totally get it. Over small stuff they are soft and controlled and over big stuff they are very firm and controlled. That variable load sensing thing must be real because I can't say enough good about them, and I've used Everything from stock Toyota to OME to Ranchos and now Bilsteins. 5125s = HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
Your comment about the shafts is simply, well, wrong.
2-4 degrees is the sweet spot with big tires. Beyond that the steering can get heavy. I usually aim for 4 with bigger tires and I'm sure 5 would be Ok too, just not optimal. Remember stock Cruisers come with 1-2 degrees of caster.
Well crap. Dirtgypsy has the same setup as I do and he had the shop lengthen the DC shaft to the same specs as the stock shaft. It worked for him. Hopefully it works for me, but not much I can do about it now. It's already at the shop being done as we speak
