Diesel Swap In California (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter daddyo
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maybe...
I don't know for sure, but here in WA that would only be okay if the rig was older than 25 yrs. In general, CA seems to have generally stricter emissions laws... not to say people don't do all kinds of swaps and never have any trouble... here in WA, the law says that vehicles must have an engine installed that was an option for the vehicle when it came from the factory, regardless of in what country. This is why swapping a 3-B into an FJ60 is legal... here in WA in any case.
I don't know for sure, but here in WA that would only be okay if the rig was older than 25 yrs. In general, CA seems to have generally stricter emissions laws... not to say people don't do all kinds of swaps and never have any trouble... here in WA, the law says that vehicles must have an engine installed that was an option for the vehicle when it came from the factory, regardless of in what country. This is why swapping a 3-B into an FJ60 is legal... here in WA in any case.
ChuckB
SILVER Star
In short No if the truck is 1976 or newer. If its older I'm not 100% sure. If you do a search on conversions you can read for many hours on this subject. HTH.
Sorry guys...gotta call BS on this. I've looked into it extensively and it's perfectly legal. I know of several late model (ie later than '76) Cruisers that have had diesel swaps done in CA. Do a little more digging with DMW. Where they get thier tit in a knot is when you try to put an older engine in a newer truck
ChuckB
SILVER Star
I was told by TLC that the newest cruiser they could legally put a diesel in was an '85. I think the reason I mentioned '76 was because if its older than a '76 then its smog exempt and it "shouldn't" matter anyway. You are right about the engine, it has to be newer than the vehicle its going into. The Cummings isn't legal because you also have to consider emission/weight class. The Cummings and Gm 6.2/6.5 are in a heavier weight class and thus its not legal to put in a Cruiser in CA. I have already called CARB on this. The options that I know of are very limited. Hopefully, someone else can share some more insight.
Curious1 - What's the story on your 1HD-T??
Curious1 - What's the story on your 1HD-T??
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I did some research on this last year. The rules say no. But if you get a referee to OK your plans then bring it to him when you get your first inspection then you are good.
If you call SOR Marv will tell you that he knows of people who just take the car to the DMV and they look at it and issue a new VIN, and at that point forward you are basically smog exempt since Cali doesn't smog diesels. He told me this while informing me of the half cut HJ-60 he had for $6000, and that people near him were installing the setup into a 60 and getting it smogged by just going to the DMV. I would love to believe that. I also know of somebody in Palo Alto who dropped a UPS diesel in his FJ-60 last year legally using the referee method. Just what I have heard......
If you call SOR Marv will tell you that he knows of people who just take the car to the DMV and they look at it and issue a new VIN, and at that point forward you are basically smog exempt since Cali doesn't smog diesels. He told me this while informing me of the half cut HJ-60 he had for $6000, and that people near him were installing the setup into a 60 and getting it smogged by just going to the DMV. I would love to believe that. I also know of somebody in Palo Alto who dropped a UPS diesel in his FJ-60 last year legally using the referee method. Just what I have heard......
ChuckB
SILVER Star
curious1 said:I would agree that if a referree looks at your plans and says o.k. go with it. At the same time you have to be very careful. Follow this bad scenerio.
A cruiser owner goes to a referree and or CARB and asks if it would be legal to swap in a toyota diesel engine. They say yes. The owner installs the diesel and takes it to the referee only to be told it is not legal and the car gets black listed until the original motor is installed. The reason given is that now that they look at it they realize that the exact diesel motor that was installed was was never available in the USA. Therefore not legal. The CARB and referee never imagined that someone would import a non USA motor for install.
Yes there are instances of people that know someone who knows someone that have done all kinds of installs. There are lots of diesels that have been installed and have made it through the system in some way or another. Most people will do there homework and are willing to take a chance that they may run into a problem.
The CARB requires the following for a diesel swap to be legal.
The donor motor needs to be from the same weight class as recipient vehicle. A heavy duty drivetrain can't be installed in a vehicle rated as light weight.
You can not use an industrial diesel engine. i.e. out of a fork lift
The diesel engine needs to be the same year or newer than the recipient vehicle.
The diesel engine needs to have been available in the USA from the dealer.
FYI... The DMV does not issue new VIN's on diesel conversions. They only change the motive power on the registration from gas to diesel. This is first hand knowledge from three conversions.
So the MB 300TD (om617) will work, patiently waiting for someone to figure out the adapters... I have zero mechincal skillz
Curious1 is that 80 legal in CA, if so I would be interested in that conversion
ChuckB
SILVER Star
Thanks for the info. Fortunately time is on my side with this project so I can afford to wait a while... Its looking like I may have to start researching the importation from Canada route.
I knew it was too good to be true!!
So say I have a FJ55 which is pre-1976, being that its smog exempt already in CA, could you put a 4bt or a GM6.2/6.5 in it even though its not a medium duty vehicle?? I would like to think that the smog police would not have a problem with that...right?
Aseif007 said:
You know what color? I've seen a tan fj60 in nice shape around Atherton/Redwood city (near Palo Alto) that sounds like it's got a diesel in there.
For CA regardless of legallity if it's old enough to not need to be smoged you can do pretty much what you want with the engine, no one is ever going to know.
However, I think if you want a 60 series diesel improtation from canada is probably the easiest way to get it done legally in CA, if you use an RI. This is the route I hope to take sometime next year.
daddyo said:
Yes you can. Regardless of what other people on this board say, you can. All you need to do is fill out one form at the DMV. I forget which one it is....
HZJ60 Guy
Tank Buster
fe sus said:
Sorry to bust in on your topic, but I live in Washington too. You can legally change the engine in any vehilce as long as the engine is the same year OR newer than the vehicle your installing it in. That goes for gasser and diesel.
I have 1987 HJ60 cruiser with a 1994 1HZ in it and it was no problem titling and registering it.
From the WA dept of ecology
While I don't doubt that you had no trouble titling your rig here in Seattle, the fact remains that it's not legal. As I'm sure you know there are tons of guys all across the country who have registered their cruisers with no issues with all kinds of engines in them. Just because we may have pulled it off doesn't make it legal. The OP asked about legality, not feasability.
Here is the communication I had with the WA DOE regarding this topic. Maybe the guy there was wrong. I somehow doubt it.
Subject: engine change
Hello-
I'm in the process of replacing the gasoline engine in my 1984 toyota with a diesel engine from another 1983 toyota. The vehicle recently passed it's emissions test with the gasoline engine, but when it's due for re-inspection (2008?) what is the procedure? I plan to run it on bio-diesel so I expect it will pass just fine... but the engine I'm installing wasn't an option for this vehicle in the US. Just curious and thought I should prepare... Also wondering what the rules are for engine changes in general. Were I to put a Chevy V8 in a Ford, what are the testing requirements?
Thanks,
Hello ,
I will answer your second question first. NO brand X engines in a brand Y vehicle. This is not a legal swap and is in violation of Section 203 of the Clean Air Act of 1990. However, if you do this anyway to a pre-1996, make sure it passes the tail pipe test. No wavers for non-stock vehicles.
On your diesel swap. You did not indicate what body types are involved. If as you indicate, the receiving body could not have been ordered with a diesel, then the same anti-tampering laws apply. Again, if you do this to a pre-1996, make sure it passes the tail pipe opacity diesel test.
No wavers for non-stock vehicles
Remember that when you convert to diesel you need to consider
the differences of dash wiring (glow light) fuel tank (lines, venting,
pick-up etc) and most importantly, vacuum requirements for power assist brakes. Diesels do not produce vacuum and require pumps and reservoirs.
When using Bio-Diesel, keep in mind the solvent characteristics. This product also may be highly variable in quality.
When you are done, you will need to go through the re-registering process with WSP and DOL to have it designated as a Diesel powered vehicle.
Contact me if you have
any questions.
Washington State Department of Ecology
NWRO AIR Programs - I/M Section
3190 - 160th Ave SE
Bellevue, WA 98008-5452
While I don't doubt that you had no trouble titling your rig here in Seattle, the fact remains that it's not legal. As I'm sure you know there are tons of guys all across the country who have registered their cruisers with no issues with all kinds of engines in them. Just because we may have pulled it off doesn't make it legal. The OP asked about legality, not feasability.
Here is the communication I had with the WA DOE regarding this topic. Maybe the guy there was wrong. I somehow doubt it.
Subject: engine change
Hello-
I'm in the process of replacing the gasoline engine in my 1984 toyota with a diesel engine from another 1983 toyota. The vehicle recently passed it's emissions test with the gasoline engine, but when it's due for re-inspection (2008?) what is the procedure? I plan to run it on bio-diesel so I expect it will pass just fine... but the engine I'm installing wasn't an option for this vehicle in the US. Just curious and thought I should prepare... Also wondering what the rules are for engine changes in general. Were I to put a Chevy V8 in a Ford, what are the testing requirements?
Thanks,
Hello ,
I will answer your second question first. NO brand X engines in a brand Y vehicle. This is not a legal swap and is in violation of Section 203 of the Clean Air Act of 1990. However, if you do this anyway to a pre-1996, make sure it passes the tail pipe test. No wavers for non-stock vehicles.
On your diesel swap. You did not indicate what body types are involved. If as you indicate, the receiving body could not have been ordered with a diesel, then the same anti-tampering laws apply. Again, if you do this to a pre-1996, make sure it passes the tail pipe opacity diesel test.
No wavers for non-stock vehicles
Remember that when you convert to diesel you need to consider
the differences of dash wiring (glow light) fuel tank (lines, venting,
pick-up etc) and most importantly, vacuum requirements for power assist brakes. Diesels do not produce vacuum and require pumps and reservoirs.
When using Bio-Diesel, keep in mind the solvent characteristics. This product also may be highly variable in quality.
When you are done, you will need to go through the re-registering process with WSP and DOL to have it designated as a Diesel powered vehicle.
Contact me if you have
any questions.
Washington State Department of Ecology
NWRO AIR Programs - I/M Section
3190 - 160th Ave SE
Bellevue, WA 98008-5452
ChuckB
SILVER Star
PVCruiser said:
So, what you're saying is that all of your troopys are legally registered in CA and once registered are smog exempt? If that's the case then I may be paying you a visit and coming with some $$$$
I just spoke to CARB and what sounded like a very knowledgeable gentleman. He basically said there are three basic rules that make up their policy toward engine changes in CA, and if you fail any one of these, the referee will fail your conversion (sometimes they'll fail it anyway because they don't want to have to deal with the vagaries):
1.) Donor engine must come out of the same year or newer vehicle.
2.) Donor vehicle must be in the same weight class as the receiving vehicle (this rules out the Isuzu 4BD1 as those were all put in medium duty trucks with higher weight classes). The CARB guy said that a lot of times the referee will ask for the donor vehicle's VIN or registration, to prove that you didn't get it out of a delivery truck, or a boat! However, he did say that (in California at least) you CAN put brand X engine into brand Y vehicle, as long as you meet these three criteria.
3.) The donor vehicle and engine must have been certified as a California-legal vehicle when sold new. This pretty much rules out everything else except maybe some of the Mercedes diesels in the passenger cars, some Volkswagons, and the domestic diesels, none of which I personally would consider (well, maybe the Merc if they were still bringing in the diesels in 1994, the year of my 80 Series that would be the conversion candidate - but they weren't ).
However, to the original poster, the Cummins might be OK if it meets these criteria. However, my first choice, a 1HD-FT, is no longer a possibility for my intended truck.
1.) Donor engine must come out of the same year or newer vehicle.
2.) Donor vehicle must be in the same weight class as the receiving vehicle (this rules out the Isuzu 4BD1 as those were all put in medium duty trucks with higher weight classes). The CARB guy said that a lot of times the referee will ask for the donor vehicle's VIN or registration, to prove that you didn't get it out of a delivery truck, or a boat! However, he did say that (in California at least) you CAN put brand X engine into brand Y vehicle, as long as you meet these three criteria.
3.) The donor vehicle and engine must have been certified as a California-legal vehicle when sold new. This pretty much rules out everything else except maybe some of the Mercedes diesels in the passenger cars, some Volkswagons, and the domestic diesels, none of which I personally would consider (well, maybe the Merc if they were still bringing in the diesels in 1994, the year of my 80 Series that would be the conversion candidate - but they weren't
).However, to the original poster, the Cummins might be OK if it meets these criteria. However, my first choice, a 1HD-FT, is no longer a possibility for my intended truck.
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ChuckB
SILVER Star
The Cummings is medium duty, so it's a no go....
ChuckB said:So, what you're saying is that all of your troopys are legally registered in CA and once registered are smog exempt? If that's the case then I may be paying you a visit and coming with some $$$$
Yes. All of my rigs are legally registered in CA. I plan to stay in business for while... Cutting corners would only catch up with me.
one other way it is legal in Calfornia...
If you have a swap done in another state, any state it the union (of the USA) and that is titled and registered as a diesel, they you can legally title and register it in California. The exclustions to this would be if it is a new model year and has less than 700 miles on it.
Cheers,
Michael
If you have a swap done in another state, any state it the union (of the USA) and that is titled and registered as a diesel, they you can legally title and register it in California. The exclustions to this would be if it is a new model year and has less than 700 miles on it.
Cheers,
Michael
ChuckB
SILVER Star
PVCruiser said:
I'm not in the market yet, but I will email/pm you when I am. In the meantime I'll be keeping on eye on your stock of vehicles. thanks for the info!!!
tlcruiserman said:
I have heard this before, but not from anyone who has actually done it. My understanding of the sytem is that you would have to show that the engine that was in it was California legal at some point. Have you or someone you know used this method?
