Diesel smoke questions? Read this first! (1 Viewer)

[Clbeaty]

Black smoke is usually over fueling. Have you messed with the pump settings?

On the swap, are you running an inter-cooler? If yes, possible restrictions or it's too small.

Black smoke is usually over fueling. Have you messed with the pump settings?

On the swap, are you running an inter-cooler? If yes, possible restrictions or it's too small.

I have turned down fuel pressure slightly, do have inter cooler, slightly larger 7m Toyota turbo, currently fab/installing 3in stainless exhaust which Andrew at XXII in Brisbane, Australia recommended (btw for anyone local there they seam like a great tuning shop and I really appreciate the remote help he's provided) I'm using a factory air box w/ K&N but I'm told that's fine to 16psi w/ no snorkel. We are also installing egt and boost gauges for monitoring. I really didn't want to mess with fuel system without them...the original turbo needed rebuild when I bought motor so thought a little bigger would be better if I was going new anyway...

****The hood is vented for the intercooler and it has its own electric fan also.

 

[georgemcbride]

hello, It is very important to first check the gas and smell it. One of the first signs that a vehicle's engine is worn and may need to be replaced is blue smoke from the tailpipe on start-up or when accelerating after coasting. Blue smoke is caused by oil leaking past worn cylinder bores and piston rings or through worn valve guides and into the combustion chamber where it is burned along with the air and fuel mixture. You can learn about blue smoke from http://dieselgrossisten.no/.

Motor oil is basically a form of lubricant used for minimizing friction and maintaining the smooth movement of any moving parts in the internal combustion system, like those seen in motorcycle, car and truck engines.

​

 

[cheric]

That pretty much nails it and is exactly right. Putting larger injectors or juicing the pump alone and black smoke is inevitable.

There's been a lot of questions over the years about diesel smoke, and what the different colors mean. There have been some good data and input from different members. Just putting in a turbo (even with exhaust and intake changes) will often lead to white smoke. Won't hurt to run lean, but you are not getting any extra power above the help at altitude. Blue smoke usually means you need work, it is never right. I idle mine a LOT -- I'll let it idle for an hour and never worry, never cause smoke. I think my mode to put 13BT sized valve train into the 3B head (easy) made more difference than anything -- a 300 degree drop in EGT by itself. Note that a "puff" at times on a mechanical engine -- like when lugging and the flooring it -- is NOT a problem, and is normal. The mechanicals don't react like modern electronics. The things to keep in mind -- turbos only add air (O2) so they don't in themselves add power. Injectors and fuel pump add fuel which they cannot burn unless you have more O2. And all of it will get too hot if you don't have enough air flow (I did intake, 2.5" exhaust, bigger valves, injectors, fuel pump - mild - 15% increase of fuel and a 12lbs boost limit. Reliable, good economy, plenty of torque, and one of the few 40 series than will cruise all day long at 75 in 100+ degree weather and A/C on ... or sit in traffic and still be cool and fine. You have to match O2 and fuel to make the smoke "correct." Good news is unlike gassers, smoke is not terminal. On a gasser black smoke fouls plugs, white smoke is lean and creates way too much heat and knocking (our friend). So you can make changes and play -- without a lot of fear.

Maybe the mods can look at diesel smoke FAQ.

Here is the main data from the NZ link, without the hyperlinks. I think it jives with what some of the more experienced and knowledgeable folks have mentioned. What do ya'll think.


SMOKE COLOUR

Basically there are 3 types of smoke emitted from a diesel engine: black, blue and white.

Black smoke:

Black smoke is the most common emitted from diesel engines and indicates incomplete combustion of the fuel. Black smoke causes can vary widely and include ..
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Dirty or worn fuel injectors
· Over fuelling
· Faulty turbocharger, or turbo lag
· Faulty or dirty exhaust gas recycling (EGR) system
· Incorrect valve clearance
· Incorrect fuel to air ratio
· Dirty or restricted air cleaner systems
· Over loading the engine
· Poor fuel quality
· Cool operating temperatures
· High altitude operation
· Excessive carbon build-up in combustion and exhaust spaces

Black smoke can occur across the entire operating range, but is usually worst under full power, or during the lag before the turbocharger boosts air supply to match the fuel usage such as in the early stages of acceleration and during gear changes. Moderate turbo lag smoke is acceptable; otherwise black smoke should be hardly visible in a correctly running engine.

Blue smoke:

Blue smoke is caused by engine lubricating oil burning. The oil can enter the combustion chamber from several sources including:

· Worn valve guides, or seals
· Cylinder &/or piston ring wear
· Cylinder glaze
· Piston ring sticking
· Incorrect grade of oil .. too thin and getting past rings, or valves guides
· Fuel dilution of the oil, making it too thin.

Blue smoke is often evident at cold start, which can reflect reduced oil control due to carbon fouling deposits around the piston rings and/or cylinder glaze. Blue smoke should not be evident at any stage.
An engine may burn oil without the evidence of blue smoke, because good compression burns oil quite cleanly, however, it is not acceptable for any new engine, or engine in good internal condition to burn large amounts of lubricating oil.

White smoke:

White smoke is caused by raw, un-burnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream. Common causes include:
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Defective fuel injectors
· Low cylinder compression

Low cylinder compression may be caused by leaking valves, sticking piston rings, ring wear, cylinder wear, or cylinder glaze. When white smoke occurs at cold start and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing.
Continuous evidence of white smoke indicates a mechanical defect, or incorrect fuel timing.

 

[RockyMtnHilux]

I have a 3L, normally aspirated 4 banger diesel (2800 cc) diesel in my 1992 Hilux Double Cab 4x4.

I have been using Opti Lube XPD since I bought it, and highly recommend it. Not only does my engine seem to run better, it has decreased the amount of black smoke it belches out, and cleaned up any residual carbon deposits. Moreover, it has increased my gas mileage.

In cold nasty winter conditions, using winter spec diesel and partially using my 4 wheel drive, my Hilux delivered 38 mpg, or, 7.1 L /100 kms !!!

That's better fuel economy than a Toyota Corolla, or a Rav 4, in a 4WD pickup truck that weighs 3600 pounds, and I'm loving it.

 

[mudandrock]

I have a 3L, normally aspirated 4 banger diesel (2800 cc) diesel in my 1992 Hilux Double Cab 4x4.

I have been using Opti Lube XPD since I bought it, and highly recommend it. Not only does my engine seem to run better, it has decreased the amount of black smoke it belches out, and cleaned up any residual carbon deposits. Moreover, it has increased my gas mileage.

In cold nasty winter conditions, using winter spec diesel and partially using my 4 wheel drive, my Hilux delivered 38 mpg, or, 7.1 L /100 kms !!!

That's better fuel economy than a Toyota Corolla, or a Rav 4, in a 4WD pickup truck that weighs 3600 pounds, and I'm loving it.

What kind of mileage were you getting before you were using the supplement?

 

[RockyMtnHilux]

What kind of mileage were you getting before you were using the supplement?

When I first bought it, running with no additive, I was getting 9.0 L /100 km. Ater I replaced both air and fuel filters, changed the oil to synthetic Rotella, changed and all other transmission fluids, and ran many multiple tanks with Opti-Lube, the best I achieved was an amazing 6.9 L /100 km. in the city.

Recently my local retailer, much to my chagrin, stopped carrying Opti-Lube. He gave no reason why.

I'm now trying a new additive that is "allegedly" better . It's called XP3.

Link : Home page for Xp3 Canada

XpLab Inc. – Xp3

Here is an interesting video that convinced me to try some:

I'm using some right now for the very first time. Let me burn a few tanks of diesel with XP3, and I will let you know the if my fuel mileage improves. I have noticed a tiny bit more performance from the motor, knowing full well that my 92 Hilux cranks out a humble 90 bhp.

The 3L seems to rev smoother at speed than ever before. Moreover, I'm noticing a small reduction in black smoke when I accelerate.

 

[mudandrock]

When I first bought it, running with no additive, I was getting 9.0 L /100 km. Ater I replaced both air and fuel filters, changed the oil to synthetic Rotella, changed and all other transmission fluids, and ran many multiple tanks with Opti-Lube, the best I achieved was an amazing 6.9 L /100 km. in the city.

Recently my local retailer, much to my chagrin, stopped carrying Opti-Lube. He gave no reason why.

I'm now trying a new additive that is "allegedly" better . It's called XP3.

Link : Home page for Xp3 Canada

XpLab Inc. – Xp3

Here is an interesting video that convinced me to try some:

I'm using some right now for the very first time. Let me burn a few tanks of diesel with XP3, and I will let you know the if my fuel mileage improves. I have noticed a tiny bit more performance from the motor, knowing full well that my 92 Hilux cranks out a humble 90 bhp.

The 3L seems to rev smoother at speed than ever before. Moreover, I'm noticing a small reduction in black smoke when I accelerate.

Those are some crazy good numbers! The best fuel economy I ever got in a 3L Hilux was 26 mpg (US). I'm not getting near that with my Hilux I have now. I've got oversized tires, but I probably need new injectors too. I watched that video you posted. That Xp3 stuff sure acts a lot like alcohol, what's it smell like?

 

[Diesel dichotomy]

I just purchased a 1977 fj40 and it's burning oil. Putting in 2 quarts at fill up. I am trying to avoid taking it in to a mechanic, because where I live,there is a serious honesty void when it come to them. I am wondering if and where I should start trying t diagnose the problem. Also, if it turns out to need a ring job, is this something I could do myself. I am a decent mechanic with a good bit of tools,but mostly I have done brake work and drive train stuff. Never opened up an engine. Also, what is the best type of oil for this old bear? Thanks much.

 

[cruizerbuddy]

I always tell people to smell the smoke becuase far too often they mystake the colours - odor is a whole different ball game.

As for idling, I always idle up. If your truck has one, it's there for a reason. As for shutting down, I always do that a drive throughs and especially the border.

so what should the odor be? Someone once told me to check the temperature of the exhaust on a cold start...?

 

[JimmyPrado]

So, mine is a little different. hardly any smoke on startup, seems to run clean unless I have to idle at a long light or jump out for some reason and leave it. Maybe 60 seconds at most. It starts putting out white-ish smoke and it takes some time at speed to finally go away. Not using much oil. I haven't had a chance to test compression yet, and no info on when or if injectors have ever been re-built or new put in.

 

[mudandrock]

What model do you have?

 

[JimmyPrado]

1991 2l-te new updated head installed in 06 when imported 186000km

 

[Alva Cotton]

I have a NTC 400 new build two years ago has smoked (white) excessively since new. Bought as long block from Yonkers in Spokane WA. Noticed recently fuel dripping out of exhaust manifold. Pulled manifold and found all but 3 and 6 soaking went. New injectors, new pump, fresh rebuild, ran rack three times with no change. Ever time you talk to Yonkers they insist their engine is fine and you must be doing something wrong. Went back to them over and over seeking help since new. Now they say pistons must be glazed so not their fault. The only thing I haven't done is check the cam (they used worn out cam on their rebuild?) Or engine timing. I have worked on Cummins, Detroit's, and Cat motors since the early 1980s and with the exception of a 671 with a soft cam keyway, I have never ran into a problem like this. Any ideas?

 

[grocerygogetter]

Here's a detailed smoke kind and possible cause chart for turbo'd (got an HJ61 12HT) This could be pretty helpful.

 

[RockyMtnHilux]

I have been using xp3 for two full years now. I'm very satisfied with it, and gives me the same mileage that the Opti Lube I previously used. I usually add about 15 ml. per tank. My Hilux has a tiny 50 litre tank.

In nasty winter driving conditions, using 4WD only when needed, my last tank of fuel gave me 6.9L/100 km. Crazy, but true. For the record, I baby this truck, and rarely take the tach over 2500 RPM. For some reason. I get better mileage with winter diesel than summer diesel.

I love my Hilux, but I still find driving a RHD truck a bit weird.

 

[Greg_B]

There has been an interesting conversation in the Official 1HD-T Fuel Pump thread from this post onward about diesel smoke and thought maybe the conversation could move over to this diesel smoke thread.

I agree with a lot of the comments that have been made in regards to these being older tech and therefore will be more smokey and smelly then modern diesels. I've wondered if part of the smoke issue for these older engines (all things considered and in good repair) is our fuel quality in most of the market in North America. Specifically Cetane.

This report from 2008 lists for minimum: Canada 40, California 48, Australia 46, Japan 45 and EU as 51.

The Wiki site says California is 50 and most of the rest is minimum 40 with real world being between 42 and 45 "In North America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, with typical values in the 42-45 range."

Some threads where the diesel TDi folk have beat this up:

CETANE ratings in Canada Eh? - TDIClub Forums

Canadian "premium" diesel is mostly bogus

Which brings up the question of additives to increase cetane to assist with better starts, cold weather and less smelly stinky exhaust.

Anyone in California notice any difference when they travel to other States? Or anyone running a specific cetane booster and notice a difference? I've been considering trying this one.

gb

 

[asutherland]

I've been using Standadyne in mine, though only because I was concerned about lubrication.

Here's the truck this morning in -9C with a cold engine. One thing I have noticed, it takes a good acceleration for 2 or 3 seconds to clear up any lingering smoke from idling for a while. After that it's clear again.

 

[MonsterCruiser]

I've been following this discussion in the other thread as well. Most of the time the smoke from my exhaust will look similar to what @asutherland has posted. You can't see much smoke directly from the exhaust, but pan over a bit (as per the video) and it seems the smoke is more visible. In stop and go traffic (more idle time) the smoke from mine seems to get a bit worse. I've also found variance in the fuel and it seems the time of year as well. It seems like mine will smoke more on winter diesel, and seems especially bad when I fuel up in Blaine, WA rather than local. Maybe that's down to the station I go to (Shell)?

I haven't noticed any difference in smoke with the additive used. I've used Power Service, Stanadyne and 4+ Premium

 

[asutherland]

@MonsterCruiser honestly, try filling with petrocan diesel for 2 full tanks worth. Report back with findings if you can. I'm willing to bet it makes a huge difference. You're not on VI though are you? My understanding is that petro on the island is sourced from a different place. For me it didn't make an ounce of a difference compared to she'll, chevron etc.

 

[MonsterCruiser]

@MonsterCruiser honestly, try filling with petrocan diesel for 2 full tanks worth. Report back with findings if you can. I'm willing to bet it makes a huge difference. You're not on VI though are you? My understanding is that petro on the island is sourced from a different place. For me it didn't make an ounce of a difference compared to she'll, chevron etc.

Thanks for the suggestion. I might do it as an experiment at some point. In the mean time, the bit of smoke doesn't bother me...maybe just the people behind me. Keeps them off my tail!