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In my experience panhards with leaf springs have been a bandaid for too thin leafs and crappy bushings and TRE’s. Think Jeep.
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Think ford super duty f250 f250 trucks with big thick wide leaf springs they come factory with a panhard bar and cross over steering not that i am a ford fan at all but.In my experience panhards with leaf springs have been a bandaid for too thin leafs and crappy bushings and TRE’s. Think Jeep.
I'm not saying that this is the gospel or anyone here is wrong, I'm just putting this information out there.
From this post - when is a track bar needed.
"You need a track bar ANYTIME you have crossover steering, meaning the gearbox is on the opposite side from the drag link attachment point. The reason most leaf spring vehicles do not have them is they utilize a push-pull steering setup where the pitman arm it perpendicular to the frame rail and the drag link attaches to the knuckle on the same side of the frame as the gear box. Newer leaf spring Ford trucks all have track bars since they switched to crossover steering in recent years. "
"actually, death wobble on leaf rigs with crossover steering is quite common especially with front shackles and kingpins that are springloaded..
most oem crossover steering straight axles, will have a trac bar. the bell crank inline style steering systems dont need them.
you can get away without a panhard with crossover, i dont always run mine. but properly setup, having a panhard with the crossover makes a huge difference in steering response. and many times strengthens the system. "
Here ya go random pics of the internet.... what year is your f250A random post on a random forum is not a reliable source, nor are we. That is a ranger forum, so they're probably putting jeep axles in their trucks. LCs use larger (stiffer) frames, with larger (stiffer) springs than jeeps and rangers. If what he's saying is true, that "you need a track bar anytime you have crossover steering..." then Toyota built all of their land cruises "the wrong way" from the 1950s until 1997.
@tmxmotorsports what year leaf spring F250 came with panhard bars? Can you give me a year and picture? I own a leaf spring superduty and it doesn't have a panhard bar. I searched around and only found panhard bars on 05+ trucks, which came with factory front leaf springs.
My leaf spring Dana 60 front land cruiser has crossover steering with no panhard bar, for 40k miles now, and don't have death wobble. Why is that if a panhard is "ALWAYS needed"?
Just because you don't run one on your rig doesn't mean its not needed
Can we move this back to talking about antirock sways? Matt, what if we put the swaybar inside the front leaf springs, with maybe 6 or 8" arms. That would keep everything away from the tires. Might be able to get a mount in there in between the bumps and shocks.
Well of course the 2wd won't have one lol
Toyota shipped my truck with 0 degrees caster - which was ridiculous - but since the truck was available in other parts of the world without power steering, that's what they did. It was a time in which handling wasn't considered that important in a rig. It had a front stabilizer bar. But my '84 is the worst driving vehicle I'd ever driven. Worse than the 26,000 lb truck I used to won. It was that way stock - vague, under steer, wandering. I don't think that because it became from the factory that way is much of an argment. And it's not gotten any better with the changes I made
I wonder if this would fit around the 60 steering box/pitman and clear big tires... this is a stock width 60 front axle so tire clearance shouldn't be an issue. 2500 Dodge Ram sway bar. With tighter frame mounts should fit between the springs and frame (I have about 3" on mine) It's a 1.25" bar though so I think it would almost certainly have to be disconnected offroad with leafs.
View attachment 1996633
Hard to tell with the pic angle, but would that interfere with tires at full lock? I'm assuming not.
This location is what I had in my head originally, but then you brought up the pitman arm problem. This pic doesn't show a fj60 steering box
Zero degrees is what the alignment shop said was the stock specification for an '84 LandCruiser (years ago) and they wouldn't add any caster to my rig. That's where that came from.
It's at 4 degrees now with the new axles. Didn't help much.
And everyone keeps telling me I'm expecting too much, like it's not driving like it's driving. I've got 37's on my FJ40 (on FJ60 axles) and it drives like a dream - tracks straight, no under steer, no over steer, no weird hopping at odd moments. I've had Excursions, Surburbans, commercial trucks, '53 Chevy's - none has driven as badly as this. I've driven enough vehicles in my life to know what a car should drive like. And this thing has always driven like crap. Before and after the SOA and the 37's and with and without front sway bar installed (so, before and after the new axles).
I'm finally putting the effort in to figure out why and just collecting information before I go to the considerable effort and expense of putting sway bars in the thing only to find out that wasn't the problem. Although I appreciate all the input and experience, no one here has actually said anything about why sway bars are the right solution - front or rear - or why the track bar isn't. Every time I bring something in from the outside world, it's like I accused Woody of being a communist - or of driving a Jeep.
I'm just trying to understand.