Currie Anti Rock sway bars

[Cruiserdrew]

@MountNGoat

Will be interested in this. He has a rear sway bar only and it has changed his handling in an undesirable way. He's had the diameter machined down a couple of times to takes some of the stiffness out.

On my SOA 60, I have no sway bars, and I want at least the front one back in. Need to get on that before driving up to Rubithon.

 

[workingdog]

Do you what @MountNGoat's problems were? His was the rig that inspired me.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Do you what @MountNGoat's problems were? His was the rig that inspired me.

He'll have to check in and comment, but I know he feels the rear is overpowering the front and upsetting the handling. To the point he drove home from Utah and left the rear sway bar disconnected.

 

[cruisermatt]

He'll have to check in and comment, but I know he feels the rear is overpowering the front and upsetting the handling. To the point he drove home from Utah and left the rear sway bar disconnected.

So exactly what I predicted when he was having it put together... weird

You’re going to created a very inverted driving experience with only a rear sway bar. Name one OEM vehicle that only has a rear sway bar, or has a larger rear sway bar then front. Front sway bars are later diameter for a reason.

 

[MountNGoat]

Yep it's a work in progress. We've turned down the rear a couple of times as it was definitely too stiff to begin with. It's getting better but still needs some more shaving, and as @Cruiserdrew said I decided to leave them disconnected for the drive home from the Hole In The Rock trail in Utah, which made the drive about 10% better. The intent has never been to run without a front sway bar, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Running with the rear only was a purposeful experiment, and that experiment is over. Just as big a part of the handling issues is that the rear King shocks need their damping rates increased significantly, whereas the fronts seem to be dialed in about right.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

 

[workingdog]

So, if you look online at classic suspension stuff, it says a rear sway is supposed to help under steer. But, I understand that a SOA FJ60 is not a typical car.

So, here's where I'm at. I had the front sway on when I did the SOA and had the stock axles. But when it went to Dana 60 in front and 14 bolt in rear, the sway didn't go back on (because the shop didn't have it). So, I have mounts put on during SOA.

and I got the sway bar

And I got a bare axle

But I got no confidence in putting mounts in the right place to make the whole thing work.

I also got this - which I think is a rear sway. It's been in my parts bin for over 10 years.

And I've got less confidence about putting it in the where I have another bare axle and to mounts on the frame.

 

[cruisermatt]

So, if you look online at classic suspension stuff, it says a rear sway is supposed to help under steer. But, I understand that a SOA FJ60 is not a typical car.

Vehicle dynamics are vehicle dynamics. Steering geometry, mechanical trail, inertia, all apply to a SOA FJ60 the same way they do to an F1 car, the variables like weight, tire size, COG, etc are just different. Physics is physics, and that statement sounds incorrect

As for mounting on the front I have not seen anyone do a front frame mounted sway bar with leaf springs yet.
I am not a fan of the axle mounted bars as they are rock catchers.

My two options I have narrowed down for mounting a front bar are either installing a RHD steering box aomits mountsd inside the LH frame rail (won’t work with my engine accessories at all) or going inside the front frame under the radiator so the arms are inside the frame rails. Big downside to this is no blingy arms outside the frame rails

There’s a third option that involves bending a bar to go under the motor/bellhousing but I’m not exploring that as it would most likely completely throw the budget aspect of my project out.

 

[MountNGoat]

I'm definitely interested in what you come up with. Not sure yet how I'm going to do mine, which is one of the reasons it hasn't been done yet .

 

[cruisermatt]

I'm definitely interested in what you come up with. Not sure yet how I'm going to do mine, which is one of the reasons it hasn't been done yet .

It’s a puzzle for sure. Fortunately I like a challenge. I just spent a few minutes in the driveway staring my rig again for what feels like the 20th time.
It’s not impossible, just going to very tight I think.

 

[FJ60Cam]

I'm definitely interested in what you come up with. Not sure yet how I'm going to do mine, which is one of the reasons it hasn't been done yet .

I have an idea for your front. I’ll try to remember to hit you up on the repeater for some pics of your axle.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

So, if you look online at classic suspension stuff, it says a rear sway is supposed to help under steer. But, I understand that a SOA FJ60 is not a typical car.

I think you should amend this statement by saying:

"So, if you look online at classic suspension stuff, it says a rear sway is supposed to help under steer, when used with an appropriately sized front sway bar."

 

[workingdog]

Okay, to add to the complication, since it's all related, I want to bring up track bars. I've done a little research on the internets and although I found a lot of people saying you don't need track bars with leaf springs (and rear shackles) I did found one source that said you did if you are using crossover steering. I have the 4x4 labs high steer kit which is crossover, I think @MountNGoat does as well. Anybody have any hard information on this? I assume this would be the first step before sway bars to get the front axle located in the truck.

Also, just found out that my preload on the king pin bearing on the Dana 60 in front was not set and I've got a fair amount of play in both front wheels. So, I'm working on that now. I hate it when a shop doesn't finish the job all the way.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Track bar as in anti-wrap bars or do you mean something else? No idea why crossover steering is related to needing a track bar or not.

If you have spring wrap, track bars can help reduce that, but aren't perfect. They tend to cause more spring wear, because the arc they follow can not perfectly match the arc of the spring.

 

[workingdog]

Track bar as in panhard bar. Apparently the crossover steering allows enough movement that a panhard bar is required to stabilize side to side movement in the front end.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Panhard bar will help with the cross over steering with the side to side load. High arched springs longer shackles and wider rims and tires and a steep drag link angle will cause it to be worse and more of a need for it some leaf spring trucks come with it from factory mainly fords. Can also do a ram assist located on the tie rod and mounted to the axle will help also if you mount it on the chassis then connect it to the drag link wont help with the side to side load also the ram assist wont hender the suspension travel. If you go with a panhard bar should run at the same angle as the cross over steering drag link if the angles are steep the cross over actually is pushing downward and over one way and pulling up and over the other direction with the panhard in a steep angle it will push and pull the axle side to side in the suspension travel steeper the angle the more it will push and pull.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I have never seen a leaf spring land cruiser (remember, they came from the factory with crossover steering) with an aftermarket panhard bar installed. IMHO, that's a crazy and unnecessary idea.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

A pan hard was a standard handling improvement on Jeep YJs. But they had very wimpy leaf springs so panhard gave lateral stability.

 

[MountNGoat]

Okay, to add to the complication, since it's all related, I want to bring up track bars. I've done a little research on the internets and although I found a lot of people saying you don't need track bars with leaf springs (and rear shackles) I did found one source that said you did if you are using crossover steering. I have the 4x4 labs high steer kit which is crossover, I think @MountNGoat does as well. Anybody have any hard information on this? I assume this would be the first step before sway bars to get the front axle located in the truck.

Also, just found out that my preload on the king pin bearing on the Dana 60 in front was not set and I've got a fair amount of play in both front wheels. So, I'm working on that now. I hate it when a shop doesn't finish the job all the way.

@workingdog I do have a front panhard rod but that's because I'm running King colilovers for springs which provide no lateral stability like leafs. The remaining front axle stability is provided via inverted 80 series radius arms that wrap over the top of the axle housing. Additionally, in the rear I also have a trac bar to prevent axle wrap from leaf spring flex. So far everything is working well together.

 

[workingdog]

I'm not saying that this is the gospel or anyone here is wrong, I'm just putting this information out there.

From this post - when is a track bar needed.

"You need a track bar ANYTIME you have crossover steering, meaning the gearbox is on the opposite side from the drag link attachment point. The reason most leaf spring vehicles do not have them is they utilize a push-pull steering setup where the pitman arm it perpendicular to the frame rail and the drag link attaches to the knuckle on the same side of the frame as the gear box. Newer leaf spring Ford trucks all have track bars since they switched to crossover steering in recent years. "

"actually, death wobble on leaf rigs with crossover steering is quite common especially with front shackles and kingpins that are springloaded..

most oem crossover steering straight axles, will have a trac bar. the bell crank inline style steering systems dont need them.

you can get away without a panhard with crossover, i dont always run mine. but properly setup, having a panhard with the crossover makes a huge difference in steering response. and many times strengthens the system. "