Cummins 4bt into my FJ60 (1 Viewer)

[boots4]

The mechanical fuel pump is low pressure and is typically a diaphragm style pump (the inline Injection Pump's are fed by a piston style pump). 4-5psi is about it. Too much pressure and the front seal can be blown out of the Injection Pump and leak diesel fuel into the front gear cover which is oil bathed meaning you'll get fuel in your oil. The mechanical fuel pump is on the intake side of the engine. You can run an electric without a mechanical pump but make sure you've got it regulated down.

The best resource for cummins 4bt's is 4btswaps.com. EDIT: Looks like you've got a thread started over there.
There is great info there and the questions you are asking so far have all been answered. If you were sticking with a toyota diesel than this site's diesel section is the place to be but don't expect any love if you are asking cummins questions on a toyota diesel forum, it's just not the best place for info on these engines.


A 4bt does not need a computer, only one switched 12v to the cut off solenoid on the IP, and that's if you use the cut off solenoid. You can run it with out any juice if you use the shut down lever on the side of the IP (depending what IP shows up on your pump, this is assuming a Bocsh VE). As far as wiring you'll also have your sensors, alt, and starter to deal with but that's true with any engine.

I must have missed what your plans for your truck are since that will help you determine the kind of compromise you want to make. With mine, 4.10s on 37's with a .75 overdrive have been a good compromise for DD, wheeler, and towing. I cruise around 1900rpm at 65-70mph.

Overall I've enjoyed my little cummins. I'm turned up pushing about 180hp and close to 390tq. My goal is for 200hp/400tq and with some future mods planned I'll be beyond that. It's one hell of an engine and has taken some abuse. The vibs aren't really an issue as that depends on your mounting system, in fact the only real issue IMO is noise and there are ways to tune it to help that. It'll never be quite but for me the power far outweighs the noise negative. These engines are getting harder to find at a good price but it sound like you got a great deal as long as the IP works out. Good luck and enjoy the particulate.

 

[Wyoming]

Boots,
Thanks for the info. I've been trying to find the time (A lot of time) to sit down and read your build thread. I was blown away with the volume of information when I opened it. took a quick cruise through some of the pictures when I was at work, but that's about it. Didn't see any pictures of the finished rig, but I'll look harder next time.
Took some time (a couple hours) at 4btswaps to try to find the info I need. Even BobS' cataloges of the articles are huge and I didn't find what I was looking for. The sheer amount of time it will take to comb through all those articles is stagering because I am not familiar yet with all the equipment names and types of trannys, pumps, adapters, etc... That's when i went for Ih8mud and got a bunch of good informative, fast responses.

 

[Wyoming]

Pictures

Here are the pictures of the motor from the site I found it on. It looks to be pretty clean and well kept. Can anyone tell me if it is longet or shorter than a Chevy small block? Is there a way to put a picture in a response and then write something and then add another picture? Can you tell what pump I have from these pictures?

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

Sorry I can't see what pump is on it, but it doesn't really look like a VE or P7100. Do you have any more pictures?

 

[boots4]

Post #3 is worth reading if you haven't already about the difference between an on-road and off-road IP.

FAQ: Commonly Asked Questions, 4BT Files, Pics, Links, PART#'s, BOOKMARK THIS THREAD

Your's is not a Bosch VE which is the most popular for on-road use. It looks more like an industrial pump. You're saving grace is that you said it came from a yard tractor which would be throttle governed and not load governed like a stationary unit. Since you don't have emissions to deal with in your state it may work out just fine. But "emissions" wise it wouldn't pass since it's classified for offroad.

I can confirm from the pic that you do have the standard diaphragm lift pump (mechanical fuel pump) that you had a question about earlier.

post #19 on the above link has the manuals for download.

 

[Kief]

The tag on the side will tell you a lot once you get it. It looks like it wouldn't be too hard to put a VE pump on there as it looks like the lines will be close to the same position. Note the oil pan is a reverse sump, that will probably not work depending on your lift. I've seen several pans on Ebay and pick up tubes as well for the rear sump.. There maybe be other issues involved such as cam timing and so-on. Cummins more than likely won't be very helpful modifying this to a different application but it is possible and parts are available new and used..

 

[cullmancruiser]

The pump on your engine is a Lucas/Delphi DPA rotary pump. That means your engine is probably an industrial engine and will be a real pig on the road. Most likely (I couldn't tell from the pictures) it is a naturally aspirated (non-turbo) engine also. A turbo is a must have in an automotive application.
I believe the Bosch VE pump and the DPA pump share the same bolt pattern and I know they both have a 20MM taper on the drive so swapping should be fairly simple. I will try to verify the bolt patterns at the shop today. Adding a turbo shouldn't be difficult but it might get pricey. If you can find a good used manifold and turbo it will help keep some of the cost down. I notice it has a vacuum pump in front of the power steering pump. That is a keeper, I wish mine had that. I think the oil pan is reversible on these engines but you may or may not have to get a different pickup tube. Someone on 4BTswaps can probably answer that.
All this makes me think you might be better off financially if you sell this one and find a different engine already set up like you need it to be.

 

[Wyoming]

Hmmm...
Boots, thanks for the link. I read that entry a little while back, although, I didn't know it would be so pertinent then. I tend to agree with you, I don't see any way a yard tractor could have a load governor. But, I am uniquely gifted at picking out the rotten apple in the barrel. I will still keep my fingers crossed.

Cullman, when you say "Pig", you mean it uses a lot of fuel, right? As I understand it, the cool thing about the diesel engines is that as long as you keep cramming fuel and air into them, they just keep producing power (Within the stress limits of the material). So, unless you mean that for some reason the engine is not generating as much power as it should for the amount of fuel it is using (The pump is somehow inefficient), this should not be a problem (I want close to 200 hp when I'm done). If you are implying it is that way because of a load governor, then yes, that would be a problem. Do you know if the Lucas/Delphi DPA rotary pump can have a speed governor?

I will be putting a turbo on and I think I will fabricate the intake manifild.

Kief, I think Cullman is right and the oil pan can be reversed. And, I saw a source for the pick-up tube on 4btswaps...somewhere.

 

[cullmancruiser]

Hmmm...
Boots, thanks for the link. I read that entry a little while back, although, I didn't know it would be so pertinent then. I tend to agree with you, I don't see any way a yard tractor could have a load governor. But, I am uniquely gifted at picking out the rotten apple in the barrel. I will still keep my fingers crossed.

Cullman, when you say "Pig", you mean it uses a lot of fuel, right? As I understand it, the cool thing about the diesel engines is that as long as you keep cramming fuel and air into them, they just keep producing power (Within the stress limits of the material). So, unless you mean that for some reason the engine is not generating as much power as it should for the amount of fuel it is using (The pump is somehow inefficient), this should not be a problem (I want close to 200 hp when I'm done). If you are implying it is that way because of a load governor, then yes, that would be a problem. Do you know if the Lucas/Delphi DPA rotary pump can have a speed governor?

I will be putting a turbo on and I think I will fabricate the intake manifild.

Kief, I think Cullman is right and the oil pan can be reversed. And, I saw a source for the pick-up tube on 4btswaps...somewhere.

I didn't mean that it would use a lot of fuel, I meant it will not have much power in its current form. This engine can make gobs of power, but not in its current form. The Lucas pump (though it is speed governed in this case) isn't meant for a turbocharged engine and has no provision to increase fuel delivery as boost is built, so you really need to convert it to a Bosch VE at least. You can set the Lucas pump to deliver enough fuel for the turbo but it will smoke like hell until the boost comes up.

 

[cullmancruiser]

I checked some pumps at the shop today and the VE pump has the same bolt pattern as your pump so a conversion should be pretty easy. You won't need to fabricate an intake manifold for a turbo because the intake manifold is made in to the head on these engines. All you will need to fab is the pipes.

 

[Wyoming]

Meant to say: Fabricat the exhaust manifold. Doh!

 

[Wyoming]

Cullman,
I know I don't want the answer to this, but: What does a Bosch VE go for? Where can if I find it? Can I get a rebuilt one?

 

[cullmancruiser]

Cullman,
I know I don't want the answer to this, but: What does a Bosch VE go for? Where can if I find it? Can I get a rebuilt one?

Let me see what I can find out for you. It will take a while because I will have to get some part numbers.

 

[davegonz]

This might get pricey for you swapping out IP's, turbo, manifold, fuel lines, etc. Might be cheaper to find another engine.

 

[Wyoming]

Hey guys, post some picture of your 4bt rigs. I want to see what your set-ups look like!

 

[davegonz]

Current rig:

Old rig:

 

[The Phoenician]

Sorry if this is a tangent......
Davegonz, love the old rig. The new one is nice too. How did you have the AC mounted? Might have to get Edwin to look at your setup so he can do the same to mine.

Mike

 

[davegonz]

The AC is mounted on the passenger side with a custom bracket. Proffitt's did the two conversions and they have gone through several iterations of brackets. Due to lack of space down near the frame rails, you almost have no other choice but to mount it up top. I've also seen someone mount the compressor over the injection pump on the driver's side.

 

[Wyoming]

Thanks Dave - Great looking rigs. LOVE the 60! Do you have a turbo on it? Can't see one in the picture. What are your horsepowers and torques?

 

[davegonz]

Yes, the 60 was turbo'd and intercooled. It was a 4BT (stock is 105hp). No idea on torque numbers.

The 80 is a 4BTA (turbo'd and after cooled via jacketed water after cooler). Those stock are 120 HP and about 300 ft-lbs of torque. The turbo has been upgraded, so I don't know what the current HP/TQ numbers are.