Covid-19 thread
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@caz ... Please explain to me how my wife, a teacher, signed up to be a front line worker? Doctors, nurses, cops, firefighters all take those jobs with a certain assumption of risk. Teachers have assumed their share of risk, they now know that school shootings are possible and they need to train and do drills to keep the kids safe in that kind of terrible situation.
They are not relied upon in times of crisis or natural disasters to mobilize en masse to hot spots at a moments notice. Are they essential? Absolutely. Are they front line workers expected to enforce vague rules around the politicization of mask wearing while putting the safety of their lives and those of their families at risk during a global pandemic that America is leading the world in cases? No.
I will not apologize for her being in a union and a strike being a powerful tool to use. Teachers work under a negotiated contract for an agreed upon amount of time for agreed upon service, then new contracts and terms are negotiated again. Risking their lives daily is not part of that negotiated service. Anyone that thinks all kids will just respect and follow distancing and masking rules is a fool ... period.
The two school boards I am involved with, my wife's and my son's, both seem to lack any level of courage to make tough decisions to keep students and staff safe. They are all trying to hide and not get blown up on Twitter or FB by making an unpopular decision to mitigate spread and prevent death. They will just roll the dice that the inevitable outbreak in a school happens in another district and that causes the Governor to send all schools back to remote learning and then they are off the hook.
It's all no big deal until someone, child or educator, dies. Then again, it seems most p in this country still won't care until it hits close enough to their own families to hurt.
They are not relied upon in times of crisis or natural disasters to mobilize en masse to hot spots at a moments notice. Are they essential? Absolutely. Are they front line workers expected to enforce vague rules around the politicization of mask wearing while putting the safety of their lives and those of their families at risk during a global pandemic that America is leading the world in cases? No.
I will not apologize for her being in a union and a strike being a powerful tool to use. Teachers work under a negotiated contract for an agreed upon amount of time for agreed upon service, then new contracts and terms are negotiated again. Risking their lives daily is not part of that negotiated service. Anyone that thinks all kids will just respect and follow distancing and masking rules is a fool ... period.
The two school boards I am involved with, my wife's and my son's, both seem to lack any level of courage to make tough decisions to keep students and staff safe. They are all trying to hide and not get blown up on Twitter or FB by making an unpopular decision to mitigate spread and prevent death. They will just roll the dice that the inevitable outbreak in a school happens in another district and that causes the Governor to send all schools back to remote learning and then they are off the hook.
It's all no big deal until someone, child or educator, dies. Then again, it seems most p in this country still won't care until it hits close enough to their own families to hurt.
caz
Keystone Cruisers
I probably have an over-simplified view as I do with most things...
It's a pandemic. None of us signed up for this. No nurse or fire fighter elected to also endanger their family by bringing home a pandemic.
Bus drivers, nurses, daycare workers, waitresses, grocery store employees etc are all at high risk and are working every day to put food on the table and to keep our country running.
What if a vaccine is never developed? Are we hiding out in our houses forever?
It's a pandemic. None of us signed up for this. No nurse or fire fighter elected to also endanger their family by bringing home a pandemic.
Bus drivers, nurses, daycare workers, waitresses, grocery store employees etc are all at high risk and are working every day to put food on the table and to keep our country running.
What if a vaccine is never developed? Are we hiding out in our houses forever?
As I said in an earlier post my district is calling for all 1800 high school students to return to school. 16-30 students per class, no distancing, no A/C in most classrooms with only floor fans and all those students required to wear masks. We will spend most of the day disciplining students to wear masks all 7 hours at school. Now anyone that thinks this isn't a set up for mass spreading of this is naive and foolish. Teacher get a mask and face shield if requested. In my non medical opinion I will get COVID in a classroom with these conditions. I have underlying health conditions and my union stated if I (we, instructors) do not show up that will give the district the right to terminate ar non renew my contract. This is all before the impacts of seasonal viruses and flu. Gov. Murphy has been tough but has failed NJ on this issue. I say they should of waited until at least after Christmas break and decide after the new year in January.
Here's what our union sent us to stay safe.
This is the world we live in right now. If everyone would put others first we could be back to close normal. But this is merica! and we got rights! Way too many Me people and not enough We people. We are all doomed.
I personally haven't felt that I have sacrificed yet. To this point I have only been inconveniced. Americans need to set their personal differences aside and truly sacrifice. Then we can look at getting back close to normal.
I personally haven't felt that I have sacrificed yet. To this point I have only been inconveniced. Americans need to set their personal differences aside and truly sacrifice. Then we can look at getting back close to normal.
First responders take the job knowing they may have exposure to infectious diseases that could kill them or that they transfer to family members. HIV and hepatitis come to mind directly. Tuberculosis, measles and mumps possibly now as well ... thanks anti-vaxxers.
You are correct, none of us signed up for this. Teachers in my area are being told that kids who refuse to wear masks will not be removed from classrooms, they will be handled as 504 cases, my non-teacher understanding of this is that they will have medical accommodations made for them, whatever that means.
If someone doesn't wear a mask I can deny them service at my restaurant. I can make them leave my premises. If they are my employee and choose to not wear a mask I can terminate their employment. If someone is making you uncomfortable by standing too close and seeming symptomatic you can ask them to leave or can remove yourself or step back from that situation. Teachers cannot leave the room if they don't feel safe. They can't apparently make kids wear masks either or make them leave the classroom.
This is a recipe for massive spread. It will take just one asymptomatic student or staff member that doesn't believe in wearing a mask or taking safety protocols seriously and you will have mass spread. It's already happened in GA, it will happen elsewhere.
Everyone knows exactly what happens if we can't find a viable vaccine, we eventually have massive spread, hospitals and healthcare systems become overwhelmed, PPE shortages happen and millions will die as a result. Not just from Covid, from things people would normally recover from like a heart attack or mild stoke or car accident, just because the hospitals are past capacity.
As an update, the nursing facility my sister-in-law works at now has 20+ deaths from Covid. Once it got in, it set up shop and went to work.
My wife starts school tomorrow, kids start in person on Thursday. They are one of the first districts back to school in the county. I fear they are the canary in the coal mine.
You are correct, none of us signed up for this. Teachers in my area are being told that kids who refuse to wear masks will not be removed from classrooms, they will be handled as 504 cases, my non-teacher understanding of this is that they will have medical accommodations made for them, whatever that means.
If someone doesn't wear a mask I can deny them service at my restaurant. I can make them leave my premises. If they are my employee and choose to not wear a mask I can terminate their employment. If someone is making you uncomfortable by standing too close and seeming symptomatic you can ask them to leave or can remove yourself or step back from that situation. Teachers cannot leave the room if they don't feel safe. They can't apparently make kids wear masks either or make them leave the classroom.
This is a recipe for massive spread. It will take just one asymptomatic student or staff member that doesn't believe in wearing a mask or taking safety protocols seriously and you will have mass spread. It's already happened in GA, it will happen elsewhere.
Everyone knows exactly what happens if we can't find a viable vaccine, we eventually have massive spread, hospitals and healthcare systems become overwhelmed, PPE shortages happen and millions will die as a result. Not just from Covid, from things people would normally recover from like a heart attack or mild stoke or car accident, just because the hospitals are past capacity.
As an update, the nursing facility my sister-in-law works at now has 20+ deaths from Covid. Once it got in, it set up shop and went to work.
My wife starts school tomorrow, kids start in person on Thursday. They are one of the first districts back to school in the county. I fear they are the canary in the coal mine.
fireball
SILVER Star
Cass why is she choosing to go back? It sounds like you feel very strongly about it.
If it were really this simple Im sure alot would find new jobs. The fact is there are none to be had and everyone has bills to pay.
@fireball ... because finding a new job when you have ~27 years experience are nearing 50yrs old and are maxed out on the pay scale isn't a simple thing. Add to it that she has great insurance because it is a union job after all and the money is good as well.
And yes, I do feel strongly about it, as I'm sure we all do regarding issues of safety and finances that impact our families directly.
Troubling that almost all people in the Admin (principals, superintendents, etc.) are always saying when, not if, the schools will go back to remote learning when talking to teachers. If it's inevitable, why put everyone at risk?
Here is a link a NJ teacher has made with a Google Spreadsheet to track Covid cases in schools across the country. Click your state at the top, slide the bar at the bottom of the page to see the links to the news articles in local papers confirming the stories about the cases. This is in no way perfect, but most stories are only reported locally and this page is subject to public edits (I think), so not all info is 100% accurate. Some reports seem redundant, same instance reported by different people or sources.
And yes, I do feel strongly about it, as I'm sure we all do regarding issues of safety and finances that impact our families directly.
Troubling that almost all people in the Admin (principals, superintendents, etc.) are always saying when, not if, the schools will go back to remote learning when talking to teachers. If it's inevitable, why put everyone at risk?
Here is a link a NJ teacher has made with a Google Spreadsheet to track Covid cases in schools across the country. Click your state at the top, slide the bar at the bottom of the page to see the links to the news articles in local papers confirming the stories about the cases. This is in no way perfect, but most stories are only reported locally and this page is subject to public edits (I think), so not all info is 100% accurate. Some reports seem redundant, same instance reported by different people or sources.
Here-in lies the root cause to about 90% of the world's problems these days...
This has been my great internal debate from the onset. I will never begin to understand the "anti-masker" on the grounds of "personal freedom" argument - is it really that much of a burden to throw a sheet over your face to help avoid spreading it? On the flip side - I'm immune compromised, and I work in a job that REQUIRES me to travel. I can't hide in my house forever, I'll wind up unemployed, then I won't have a house to hide in - as I imagine is the case for many teachers/daycare workers out there. As concerned as I am for myself and my family - I have to go visit customers, (and I've started to do so). As much as I worry if I made the right decision, I sent my daughter back to daycare, knowing that sending her to daycare is a calculated risk. This was partially because my wife and I have full time jobs, but also because it's the only way our daycare will continue to exist, and the employees there will continue to get paid.
Rolling stone recently published an article about this mentality and where (they think) it came from. While I don't necessarily agree with the article's heavy-leftward leaning aspects, (and I'll leave it at that to avoid a huge political debate) - I will say that I think the premise was pretty spot on. We live in a country that was founded on the power of the individual and individual rights - we've pushed this premise to the breaking point, where there is no longer an overarching sense of unity, community, or the greater good. It's moved pretty much to "every man for himself" - and without a sense of "we," community, or the greater good - without a willingness to sacrifice for everyone's mutual benefit, we won't be able to get out in front of this.
I won't post the article because it's basically a political hit-piece at its core and that's not what this forum is about - but even if I disagree with certain aspects of it, it made some good points about the "American way," where it came from and why it's problematic in times like these.
I'd argue that social media has also inflamed rampant narcissism across almost every conceivable demographic and makes everyone feel way too individually important for their own good. I'm hoping that, if there is ANY silver lining to this, it's that it eventually unites people for the greater good, maybe humbles us all a bit and makes us a little more receptive to viewpoints that aren't our own. Otherwise, Andy - I agree - we're pretty screwed.
Agreed, and it is happening. My mom has been a pre-school teacher for 25 years. Luckily for us, this was "supplemental income" and something for her to do while her 3 kids were at school to bring in some extra money - my dad being the primary earner. She continued to do it up until now because she loves working with kids. The school released the guidelines for teaching this year (which included having all 2-4 year old toddlers wear masks all day). The rules were so unenforceable and would put such a strain on the learning environment that my mom finally said "I don't get paid enough for this" and quit. She's the 10th teacher (out of less than 20 total) to resign. So at this point the school has lost over half its staff.
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caz
Keystone Cruisers
Having lived through the terror of having someone exposed directly and then getting COVID, I can certainly relate. I would have done just about anything to get my wife out of that situation! In fact, she did not go back to her job when she recovered.
I can say that the fear of what might happen was WAY worse than what actually happened.
I can say that the fear of what might happen was WAY worse than what actually happened.
caz
Keystone Cruisers
Lancaster county population: 545,000
Lancaster General Total Deaths: 101
Ephrata Hospital Total Deaths: 29
UPMC Lititz Deaths: less than 5 (estimated - my wife works there)
Hershey Med Center: 19
_______________________________
154/545,000 = 0.028%
More simply stated, 3 out of 10,000 people have died from COVID in Lancaster County.
Average age of COVID deaths at Lancaster General is 76 years old.
Lancaster General Total Deaths: 101
Ephrata Hospital Total Deaths: 29
UPMC Lititz Deaths: less than 5 (estimated - my wife works there)
Hershey Med Center: 19
_______________________________
154/545,000 = 0.028%
More simply stated, 3 out of 10,000 people have died from COVID in Lancaster County.
Average age of COVID deaths at Lancaster General is 76 years old.
Statistics are a dangerous game to play in situations like these. In the words of everyone's favorite evil dictator Joseph Stalin "If only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy. If millions die, that’s only statistics"
It's accurate to say that any one persons' chances of dying of Covid are extremely low, but that's only comforting if nobody you know personally is among the dead or afflicted.
That being said - to a certain extent we've all be spoiled by modern medicine and a relatively long period of up-trending public health. It wasn't too long ago that people would die in the hundreds of thousands of polio, the flu, measels, or any number of other communicable diseases and it was just considered a fact of life. There's definitely things we could have collectively done better in order to try and manage the spread, hindsight being 20/20 - but realistically I think, as much as this has become a politicized blame-game, I'm not sure if the end result would have been hugely different if we'd done everything "right" from the get-go, or if we were just delaying the inevitable.
All told, I'm taking as logical an approach as I can to get through this - I'll wear my mask and avoid unnecessary risks to exposure (big crowds, etc.) but, as others have said, I can't remain locked in my house forever - so I'll do my best to stay healthy until such a time that a vaccine becomes available.
It's accurate to say that any one persons' chances of dying of Covid are extremely low, but that's only comforting if nobody you know personally is among the dead or afflicted.
That being said - to a certain extent we've all be spoiled by modern medicine and a relatively long period of up-trending public health. It wasn't too long ago that people would die in the hundreds of thousands of polio, the flu, measels, or any number of other communicable diseases and it was just considered a fact of life. There's definitely things we could have collectively done better in order to try and manage the spread, hindsight being 20/20 - but realistically I think, as much as this has become a politicized blame-game, I'm not sure if the end result would have been hugely different if we'd done everything "right" from the get-go, or if we were just delaying the inevitable.
All told, I'm taking as logical an approach as I can to get through this - I'll wear my mask and avoid unnecessary risks to exposure (big crowds, etc.) but, as others have said, I can't remain locked in my house forever - so I'll do my best to stay healthy until such a time that a vaccine becomes available.
ArcGIS Hub
Discover, analyze and download data from ArcGIS Hub. Download in CSV, KML, Zip, GeoJSON, GeoTIFF or PNG. Find API links for GeoServices, WMS, and WFS. Analyze with charts and thematic maps. Take the next step and create StoryMaps and Web Maps.
covid-19-lancastercountypa.hub.arcgis.com
This info hub from the Lancaster County Coroner's Office shows:
402 deaths county wide
6228 Confirmed Covid cases in Lanc county
So 6.45% of people that have been confirmed to have had or currently have Covid have died from it in Lancaster County, 6.15% state wide (scroll down the HUB page). Not all those who die do so at a hospital and I'm pretty sure you have to test positive for Covid before you can count for or against the deaths figure for a fatality rate. There is a big difference between a mortality rate and a fatality rate.
A question we can't answer is how many were hospitalized. How many would of died without medical treatment.
caz
Keystone Cruisers
Love you guys, sorry if have come across as argumentative.
I care about you and about your families, and I am truly sorry for the angst you are feeling right now. I do know what it feels like - I think at the time my wife was in her situation I made the comment I felt like I was sending my wife off to war each time she worked...
I'm finished being worried about this. I feel my chances of dying by heart attack or car accident are far higher than "the COV". I am however still trying to do my part as a citizen to keep from spreading it if I were to have it. My life insurance and will are up to date, I know where I am going when I die.
I care about you and about your families, and I am truly sorry for the angst you are feeling right now. I do know what it feels like - I think at the time my wife was in her situation I made the comment I felt like I was sending my wife off to war each time she worked...
I'm finished being worried about this. I feel my chances of dying by heart attack or car accident are far higher than "the COV". I am however still trying to do my part as a citizen to keep from spreading it if I were to have it. My life insurance and will are up to date, I know where I am going when I die.
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@caz all we are doing is having a open conversation about a unpleasant subject. One that most have different opinions on its nature. One that the statistics can mislead, unintentionally or intentionally. Its a super complex problem with many elements in play, health and economic. The situation is evolving daily and America and the world will need to adapt. Some will do it better then others. Looking out for the well being of others, showing respect and being a good citizen by doing the right thing even when we don't like it will go along way towards improving the situation.
Now my opinion is that we will feel the effects economically and socially for the next 50 years. I expect it will get much worse in the coming years. In a way I envy my parents who are in their late 70's as they are nearing the end of their lifes and won't have to clean this up.
Now my opinion is that we will feel the effects economically and socially for the next 50 years. I expect it will get much worse in the coming years. In a way I envy my parents who are in their late 70's as they are nearing the end of their lifes and won't have to clean this up.
You’re pissin in the wind here, Andy! The folks who are posting here and the horse**** they are spreading is truly sad. I honestly LOL’s at a few of the previous posts on this thread... it was sure fun to catch up!
Imagine our forefathers and ancestors, who actually had to go to war and fight for our freedom... or previous generations who actually had to deal with deadly communicable disease! They are rolling their eyes as they rolling over in their graves. Like it or not, this is America and we actually do have freedom that has granted to us... just by being born here! Don’t like it, change it! Or leave... China’s COVID response was... ummm... amazing?
Fear has gripped America... for what??? Fear of getting sick? Fear of getting a flu? Fear of decreased lung capacity? Fear of dying? Fear of getting in a car accident? Fear of getting struck by lightning? Fear of getting kicked by a horse? Feel of catching a cold? Fear of germs? Fear of hospitals/doctors? We have people drastically altering their life to avoid getting sick... and shaming others if we won’t.
I honestly feel sorry for some of ya... turn off your tv, disable the crap spewing out of your phone, find religion, find inner peace, conquer your fear, climb a mountain... something! Get a hold of yourself! There are very few guarantees in life... but one that we can all count on... we are all mortal and will die... ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Why are some of you so scared?
Lastly can we rename this thread covid crying?
Imagine our forefathers and ancestors, who actually had to go to war and fight for our freedom... or previous generations who actually had to deal with deadly communicable disease! They are rolling their eyes as they rolling over in their graves. Like it or not, this is America and we actually do have freedom that has granted to us... just by being born here! Don’t like it, change it! Or leave... China’s COVID response was... ummm... amazing?
Fear has gripped America... for what??? Fear of getting sick? Fear of getting a flu? Fear of decreased lung capacity? Fear of dying? Fear of getting in a car accident? Fear of getting struck by lightning? Fear of getting kicked by a horse? Feel of catching a cold? Fear of germs? Fear of hospitals/doctors? We have people drastically altering their life to avoid getting sick... and shaming others if we won’t.
I honestly feel sorry for some of ya... turn off your tv, disable the crap spewing out of your phone, find religion, find inner peace, conquer your fear, climb a mountain... something! Get a hold of yourself! There are very few guarantees in life... but one that we can all count on... we are all mortal and will die... ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Why are some of you so scared?
Lastly can we rename this thread covid crying?
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@BROKEROB1 we do not need the name calling and insults. Your the only one doing it. Please stop.
