Cost of ownership, just gas and oil changes right?

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patrickfinley

patrickfinley

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I've been seeing a lot of threads lately about people searching to buy a high mileage Hundy for sub 10k prices. They seem to have the impression that they can plunk down a few grand for what was originally a 60k vehicle and then just buy gas and pay for a $39 oil change now and again.

I thought I would share my costs with the group to hopefully enlighten prospective buyers out there.

2004 LC with mileage in mid 90k's. Past 2 years maintenance all at dealership:

Tires, Shocks, Brakes, Alignment, Minor Maintenance, Diff Fluid
$2600
Timing Belt, Water pump, Major maintenance
$1400
Rusted muffler, full replacement
$1300
Broken memory steering wheel
$500
Broken window switch
$300
Broken antenna
$360
Oil Changes
$200

Total
$6,680

So in the past 2 years I've put over $6,600 into my LC, this is a vehicle with less than 100k miles. Granted this would be less if I didn't take it to a dealer, and even less if I did it myself.

I'm sure you could argue with the pricing, or that I should have done something myself, or waited longer to do the T-Belt. That isn't my point. It's that we don't get to drive these things for free even though they are extremely reliable machines. When things wear out they are expensive to fix and as these age, there are things that need to be addressed.
 
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If anybody thinks they will purchase a 100 Series and drive it for 200,000 miles and never fix anything because it's a "Cruiser" they are wrong. In 2013 alone I poured roughly $7,800 into mine. That was a combination of replacing OEM parts, and upgrading from OEM to aftermarket (price was same or less than OEM). The $7,800 is not accounting for the $9,800 dollars of fuel I burned through, the $1,500 set of tires I had to replace, nor the $720 insurance check, depreciation, etc, etc, etc.

They are reliable, they are capable, they are reasonably affordable now...but they are very expensive to run.

-The truck was $59,500 new.
-12MPG and 187K that comes out to ~$79,000
-Maintenance for 14 years ~ $15,000

If you purchased new, and maintain regularly...you've dumped $153,600 into the 100 Series as of today (very rough numbers). If you wheel and modify them, go ahead and add another $5,000 for off-road wear and tear over 14 years, and whatever you spend modifying it ($1,500-$20,000)

Average Cost of a 100 Series after 14 years and some wheeling?

$160,100 - $178,600



Feeling sick yet? :flipoff2:. That's not accounting for premature wear, off-road breakage, accidents, etc...
 
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Finally, a realistic post about ownership costs.
 
Love my Cruiser. But miss the capability and lower costs of my (dare I say it?) Jeep.
 
Mine has been relatively cheap so far. I purchased it after it already had the timing belt, starter, and CV boots replaced. The tires are getting a little older, but still have a lot of tread (Michelin LTX).

I've had to fix little things like lumbar motor ($350 part), door cable ($300 for whole assembly), AC blower, bulbs, etc. It needs a telescopic steering motor and new side mirrors, but neither bother me to fix. I don't really consider the maintenance cost (oil changes, filters, tires), as I'd have to maintain any vehicle I own. All things considered, the 100 is a very nice, very well built vehicle and is definitely affordable to own (but it's not a corolla).

A base Tacoma might be another low cost of ownership vehicle, but it's no where near what a 100 is and isn't really inexpensive to buy.
 
Since you brought it up, here is my log.

This doesnt include drawers, fridge, RTT, awning, etc, but I did include Sliders, Front Runner Rack, Shocks, Lift, DBS, Battery, etc. since they are permanent/fixed to the truck.

P.O. already did some minor maintenance (front pads/rotors, diff fluid, tires, battery).

Prices below are all from memory. List includes month/year of service, and mileage at the time. The only dealer performed work was the Timing Belt/Water pump. Doing your own maintenance does come with its benefits, as I like to think of it as funding my upgrades. :bounce:

8/12 - purchased - 123000 $20,500.00
8/12 - oil change - 124000 $55.00
9/12 - 90k (timing belt, cam seals, water pump, PCV) - 127000 $1,350.00
9/12 - new spark plugs *and air filter - 127000 $155.00
11/12 - oil change - 129000 $55.00
2/12 - tires rotated - 133000 $0.00
3/13 - power steering flush - 135000 $15.00
3/13 - tranny drain and fill - 135000 $24.00
3/13 - oil change - 135000 $55.00
7/13 - new front bearings and races (proactive) - 140000 $125.00
7/13 - tranny drain and fill x2 - 140000 $48.00
7/13 - brake system flush - 141000 $12.00
7/13 - rear rotors and all pads replaced - 141000 $300.00
7/13 - oil change - 141000 $55.00
7/13 - installed IBS and Die Hard Platinum Marine Aux Batt $750.00
7/13 - installed front runner roof rack $1,200.00
7/13 - Swapped OME 865 for OME 866 - 141000 $165.00
7/13 - windshield replaced (stone) $50.00
7/13 - tires rotated - 141000 $0.00
8/13 - new wiper blades - 143000 $30.00
8/13 - oil change - 146000 $55.00
8/13 - fox shox 2.0 installed (broke passenger rear Bilstein) - 148000 $260.00
11/13 - new air filter - 151000 $35.00
11/13 - oil change - 151000 $55.00
12/13 - Pre Cat O2 Sensor Change (proactive) - 152000 $180.00
12/13 - diff and transfer fluid change - 152000 $50.00
12/13 - MetalTech Slider install $750.00
1/14 - swapped hi and lo beams for 9011 and 9012 Phillips HIR - 155000 $60.00
1/14 - swapped serpentine belt and tensioner - 155000 $75.00
2/14 - swapped heater hose T's - 156000 $20.00
2/14 - swapped fuel filter - 156000 $40.00
2/14 - oil change - 156000 $55.00
TOTAL $26,579.00
33,000 miles at 14.5MPG $3.25/gal $7,400.00
GRAND TOTAL $33,979.00

Oh, its also taken me to some wicked places - and never let me down. :steer:
 
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I'm not sharing my numbers. All my wife knows is that the LC only cost $10k to purchase! I've more than doubled that in <6 months of owning it :)
 
Part of my analysis, if it were, for purchasing an LC were two factors:

1)Use of the LC for a long summer vacation, saving me 2k in plane fares. That's a conservative figure. 4 personsX500k plane fare, avg. I made it a point to drive rather than fly on a few medium range trips. I'll be out the gas, but considering I would have rented a car at the destination, it's irrelevant.

2) Use of a 3rd vehicle in my household when other cars are in the shop, thus keeping me from having to get a rental, allowing me to avoid towing fees, and not leaving me at the mercy of untrustworthy mechanics. I'll estimate that at $1500.

I've spent $6k on my vehicle in upgrades and repairs. Only a few hundred were 'necessary'. Maybe 1k tops. When you net the benefits, listed above, I really only feel like I'm out $2500. The only 'costs' that matter here are the costs that are incremental(over and above) what I would have spent on maintaining a vehicle. Gas is certainly higher. As I outlined in a similar thread, I expect to only spend an extra 1.2k on fuel, when compared to the previous vehicle which got 21 mpg.

Extra car insurance on a 3rd vehicle cost me $250. The purchase price of the car is irrelevant. All I care about is operating cost. What I would tell anyone is to estimate 10% per year in operating costs of the vehicle at purchase price per year in replacing parts that need be replaced.

But parts for Toyotas are much cheaper than BMW....

Even my Volvo alternator cost $500..
 
What a downer thread!

But thanks for the reality check.

We've now had ours for 9 years and don't think things are much different than others that have posted here.

For the LX owners, any significant differences?
 
we've had ours for 10 years.
Only major repair expense to date was timing belt and water pump and that's because I didn't have time to do it. And a few minor items done under extended warranty which I could have done myself or not done at all if without the warranty. But nevertheless to be fair the cost of the extended warranty (don't remember, maybe $1K or $1.5K, the :princess: bought it) should count as an expense (although I personally would not have gotten it, not worth it).
Plus tires and gas and insurance. The first two are not cheap.
But altogether comparatively little, repairwise.

Really, though, the figure to look at is not the cost of running the cruiser, it's really the cost of running the cruiser over that of another car that you'd otherwise run. Well, unless you can do without a car altogether, but most of us can't. And then figure out if the extra chunk of vehicle you have is worth the extra cost to you.

Also got to put the depreciation in perspective. If you buy an older cruiser, you will likely not lose much on the purchase price upon resale compared to the depreciation on a new vehicle.

Consumer reports has 5 years cost of ownership figures. Of course, the tiny reliable cars cost less to run than the big ones. But I was surprised to see that the spread is not that huge, really. Per mile a good luxury or SUV car may run you something like double or triple that of the tiniest car (from memory). It's more but not like 10 times more. So many folks (including most of us here?) may think this is just fine given the extra enjoyment and utility they get out of the bigger better vehicle. (And those stats are for new cars sold after 5 years so if you buy used you are doing much better to start with.)

Now throw in the fact that you can do wonderful things in the cruiser that you absolutely cannot in some other vehicles, like going to the top of a mountain with no paved road and it's even more compelling.

So agreed, not cheap to run, but not stupid expensive to run either. And definitely worth the cost to run it for me at least.
 
e9999 said:
we've had ours for 10 years.

Also got to put the depreciation in perspective. If you buy an older cruiser, you will likely not lose much on the purchase price upon resale compared to the depreciation on a new vehicle.

So agreed, not cheap to run, but not stupid expensive to run either. And definitely worth the cost to run it for me at least.
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This is so true. I bought a 2001 LX a few years back, put about 100k on it, smashed the front bumper, broken antenna, and rusted out tail/lift gate (gotta love Iowa and our salty winters). I traded it in on a 2002 LX (same color btw) and they gave me about $3k less than what I paid for it with all that stuff wrong. Can't say I've ever had that kind of deal happen before. Even though it costs more than my Tacoma or Honda Accord, I love the LX!
 
There are some things you just don't want to know or think about. Vehicles in general are money pits. Land Cruisers happen to be on the high side.

But, look at what you get and what you can do.

It's a hobby just like golf, fishing and others. It costs to play. Now, how much will a rear bumper set me back? About the same as a real good set of golf clubs or a rare signed first edition book for my wife.
 
e9999 said:
Also got to put the depreciation in perspective. If you buy an older cruiser, you will likely not lose much on the purchase price upon resale compared to the depreciation on a new vehicle.
.
Click to expand...

I think people are generally confused about what depreciation is and what it means. In fact, i'd say most people don't understand the relevance of depreciation as it relates to their purchase and use. In simplest terms, depreciation tells us how the cost of a vehicle changes over time. It's not an exact science, but we try to be conservative and spread the cost over multiple periods, to illustrate how we spread the value and use.

Depreciation affects the people who buy the vehicle on the high end of the cost curve, i.e. new or mostly new. The vehicle is loosing 5-10k per year in value as it's value is lost or cut in half each year. The first few years suffer the greatest in depreciation.

But that amount gets smaller each year. So buying a 10 year old land cruiser, driving it for say, 50k miles is nothing less than a pure play on the value of depreciation. The vehicles depreciation per year has slowed quite a bit but offers the same value to the owner that a new vehicle offers.

That's the magic. That's where you make your money in buying an LC that's a bit older. You get the same value as a new SUV at a lower price and a lower amount of yearly depreciation.

I understand the relative costs of fixing things on a worn vehicle. There are times that is painful. But considering youre getting a mostly working vehicle that once cost 75k and the fixes are relatively modest when compared to luxury vehicles.

The person who suffers the most is the person who pays for the first 5-7 years of depreciation, when the vehicle loses thousands just sitting. The one thing I take from this thread is not what anyone has said, but what they haven't said, which is that they didn't spend 50-75k for their LC. Maybe they aren't admitting it, I don't know. But that's the most relevant cost, because it drives the amount of price that is simply lost to time.

It's all about depreciation....that is the greatest relevant cost in these vehicles..
 
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Great thread. Might be a good sticky along with some sort of master thread for "LC/LX versus an Echo, Corolla, Highlander, RX, GX, Covered Wagon", et al.
 
Everything costs money to own and maintain and regardless of how expensive the 90k service is these trucks are nothing like their competition. I dumped $6,500 in my V8 BMW X5..in ONE MONTH..then the next month..$2600..that takes care of everything right? NOPE 6 months later $4500!!!

Also you shouldn't be counting things like modifications or rust related repairs because rust affects every vehicle in areas that are prone to rust. Additionally regular maintenance is NOT the same as repairs. Doing a preventative 90k service just because you should is a whole lot different than the car springing an oil leak so bad that you lose half your oil in a 2 mile drive (X5), or having your air suspension completely fail to the point that all 4 tires are sitting on the bump stops making it totally undriveable (X5 and Range Rover - incidentally platform shared).
 
Kofoed said:
$1300 seems really high. No aftermarket option with muffler shop?
Click to expand...

I considered aftermarket but people seem to have issues with them throwing codes, funky noises, difficult installs, etc.

The OEM muffler has a lifetime warranty once it has been replaced by the dealership. This will be the last time I will ever have to do the exhaust. If it should ever happen to rust out 20 years from now I'll get a brand new one installed for free. I live in SoCal now so that probably will never happen.
 
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