Cost of ownership, just gas and oil changes right?

[patrickfinley]

I guess this post was not for the person comparing a Land Cruiser's cost of maintenance with a BMW or Range Rover. There is certainly a huge cost savings owning an LC over those brands. It's for the guy that's saved up a while to put 8-10k in the bank and is looking for their first car.

General wear and tear related (tires, brakes, mufflers, shocks) items in the LC will cost much more than many other vehicles out there.

Also you shouldn't be counting things like modifications or rust related repairs because rust affects every vehicle in areas that are prone to rust. Additionally regular maintenance is NOT the same as repairs. Doing a preventative 90k service just because you should is a whole lot different than the car springing an oil leak so bad that you lose half your oil in a 2 mile drive (X5), or having your air suspension completely fail to the point that all 4 tires are sitting on the bump stops making it totally undriveable (X5 and Range Rover - incidentally platform shared).

 

[stonepa]

If anybody thinks they will purchase a 100 Series and drive it for 200,000 miles and never fix anything because it's a "Cruiser" they are wrong. In 2013 alone I poured roughly $7,800 into mine. That was a combination of replacing OEM parts, and upgrading from OEM to aftermarket (price was same or less than OEM). The $7,800 is not accounting for the $9,800 dollars of fuel I burned through, the $1,500 set of tires I had to replace, nor the $720 insurance check, depreciation, etc, etc, etc.

They are reliable, they are capable, they are reasonably affordable now...but they are very expensive to run.

-The truck was $59,500 new.
-12MPG and 187K that comes out to ~$79,000
-Maintenance for 14 years ~ $15,000

If you purchased new, and maintain regularly...you've dumped $153,600 into the 100 Series as of today (very rough numbers). If you wheel and modify them, go ahead and add another $5,000 for off-road wear and tear over 14 years, and whatever you spend modifying it ($1,500-$20,000)

Average Cost of a 100 Series after 14 years and some wheeling?

$160,100 - $178,600



Feeling sick yet? . That's not accounting for premature wear, off-road breakage, accidents, etc...

$7800 dollars in a year? Did you wait to do everything at once? I've been driving my 98 since new. I don't think I've spent $7800 total unless I count consumables like tires and shocks. I've replaced 2 starters. I'm about to replace my neutral safety switch if it starts acting up again. Replaced batteries, brakes, timing belts, water pumps, etc. even replaced the flex pipe on the exhaust. Other than that, nothing but normal factory scheduled maintenance. The result, everything works like it should. All of the power options, my A/C, moon roof, heated seats, CD stereo, even my power radio antenna, work like new and always have.

Either I have the best 98 hundy ever built or I'm just lucky. And luck must run in streaks - my 94 4Runner hasn't been any different.

 

[mcgaskins]

I guess this post was not for the person comparing a Land Cruiser's cost of maintenance with a BMW or Range Rover. There is certainly a huge cost savings owning an LC over those brands. It's for the guy that's saved up a while to put 8-10k in the bank and is looking for their first car.

General wear and tear related (tires, brakes, mufflers, shocks) items in the LC will cost much more than many other vehicles out there.

That is very true - I also think when you buy Toyota OEM parts they are top notch quality wise whereas with a lot of other brands you're buying the same junk that's going to fail again.

PS you think I'm bitter after having 6 Audis and 2 BMWs and 5 Jeeps before I bought my first Toyota?

 

[DJWUZJ]

$7800 dollars in a year? Did you wait to do everything at once?

I think that this included several steering racks.



What would be cool would be to have everyone respond with their count/cost of the items most prone to failure on these trucks, along with the cumulative mileage of the group. It would be neat to use this data to pinpoint frequency/cost related with items like:
- Front Diff
- Steering Rack
- ABS Unit
- Transmission
- Head Gasket
- Front Rotors
- Rear Rotors

 

[codertimt]

I considered aftermarket but people seem to have issues with them throwing codes, funky noises, difficult installs, etc.

The OEM muffler has a lifetime warranty once it has been replaced by the dealership. This will be the last time I will ever have to do the exhaust. If it should ever happen to rust out 20 years from now I'll get a brand new one installed for free. I live in SoCal now so that probably will never happen.

I guess this post was not for the person comparing a Land Cruiser's cost of maintenance with a BMW or Range Rover. There is certainly a huge cost savings owning an LC over those brands. It's for the guy that's saved up a while to put 8-10k in the bank and is looking for their first car.

General wear and tear related (tires, brakes, mufflers, shocks) items in the LC will cost much more than many other vehicles out there.

I think the first quote highlights what the naysayers of this thread feel though. Just because you paid the dealer $1300 to install a replacement muffler, doesn't mean the cost of ownership for the guy guy who saved up 8-10K is going to be out of this world... That guy isn't going to do that, he will be spending $120 for a bolt in stainless steel Walker direct replacement muffler and $10 for a six pack(I'm hoping he drinks quality beer) and a Saturday afternoon later he will be done. Sure he might could have replaced a Jeep muffler for $100..but citing a $1300 muffler replacement as reasonable maintenance for an $10K used cruiser is just ridiculous.

Brakes? Just ordered Powerstop front pads for $23... Let's see, Powerstop pads for my XJ...$23...

Same goes for other high budget items... If a guy's 343 transmission goes, he can get it fully rebuilt(including planetary gears and other hard parts) in the $2000 range. Again, sure, probably could have got a common Jeep transmission rebuilt for $300-500 less, but still IMHO, not a massive difference in maintenance and/or repair cost than other vehicles... You folks do realize that most guys buying 8-10K cruisers aren't taking them to the dealer for $55 oil changes...

 

[BAMA Crusher]

Indeed, this is a very interesting thread.

I guess the realization is that if you are a member on this site or are looking on here for advice then you are somewhat of a gear head. So with that being said, the number of things you do to your vehicle(s) is more than the average person. Also you will look for the best value of what you are doing. Most of the guys on here are capable of saving major money on normal repairs and/or maint, but then we decide to spend what we saved on mods or OEM repairs that we feel are the best value (not the cheapest).

What I'm trying to say is what the people on here spend towards their trucks is a relative number. For instance, I replaced the antenna and drivers door lock actuator (motor). If I wasen't on this site I would have probably let them go and not fixed them. But because I am simi-handy I decided to look on here for repair advice. Now they are fixed for $80 (antenna) and $20 (door lock).

This is critical info for gear heads that are looking to get a LC/LX, and want to have a general idea of what they are getting into (depending on their abilities). But for the general public this would have to come with perspective.

On a side note, I really enjoy seeing how much I've saved or overspent on different things.

 

[lizardking100]

Really, though, the figure to look at is not the cost of running the cruiser, it's really the cost of running the cruiser over that of another car that you'd otherwise run.

This.

Also, how many people do PM on cars w/ 100k+ miles and 10+ years old? Mainly enthusiasts.

I've been buying used Toyota 4x4s for more than a decade and what I've consumed by way of depreciation, maint, and fuel for the capability, safety and dependability is modest in a quantitive sense when compared to the purchase and operation of the "competition" to my 4runners and LCs.

I reckon I've spent more keeping shoes on my feet for work, play and office than repairing and maintaining my Toyotas over the last 11 years which have flawlessly transported me and my family.

 

[serenity]

2005 HDJ100R Sahara.
Bought in May 2013 with 260,000km on the clock. Now at 280000
All amounts are in AUD.
$50000 from dealer
Most work done myself
New front brake rotors and pads, windscreen and trim replaced under warranty.
$290 for service, oil change etc (I was away at work)
$120 wheel alignment
$520 new shocks to replace originals
$200 Oil air and fuel filter with oil change
$240 sway bar and steering rack bushes
$12 Power steering oil

Still to come soon
Tires
Another alignment
New jack and handle
Another service
Major service at 300,000km will include removal and cleaning of the intake manifold, new gaskets, replacement of T-belt and tensioner, diesel injector lines, water pump, all other belts. Will be done at a friends workshop using OEM parts so costs will be high. Nothing but the best for my motor!

Other stuff
$60 floor mats
$250? Diff drop
Free! Torsion bar index and crank
$110 EGR delete
$120 headlight update

Diesel for 20,000km at 11 L per 100 km average approx $3800

Registration PA $840
I durance PA $700

So $50000 + $7262 so far. The initial purchase price was high due to it being the top model diesel which has always retained its value. Registration is also a ripoff here and is calculated by number of cylinders.

I will edit if I remember anything else.

 

[99toylc]

I think the first quote highlights what the naysayers of this thread feel though. Just because you paid the dealer $1300 to install a replacement muffler, doesn't mean the cost of ownership for the guy guy who saved up 8-10K is going to be out of this world... That guy isn't going to do that, he will be spending $120 for a bolt in stainless steel Walker direct replacement muffler and $10 for a six pack(I'm hoping he drinks quality beer) and a Saturday afternoon later he will be done. Sure he might could have replaced a Jeep muffler for $100..but citing a $1300 muffler replacement as reasonable maintenance for an $10K used cruiser is just ridiculous.

Brakes? Just ordered Powerstop front pads for $23... Let's see, Powerstop pads for my XJ...$23...

Same goes for other high budget items... If a guy's 343 transmission goes, he can get it fully rebuilt(including planetary gears and other hard parts) in the $2000 range. Again, sure, probably could have got a common Jeep transmission rebuilt for $300-500 less, but still IMHO, not a massive difference in maintenance and/or repair cost than other vehicles... You folks do realize that most guys buying 8-10K cruisers aren't taking them to the dealer for $55 oil changes...

Right on the money

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

This thread makes me really glad that in the last year I've bought a front and rear bumper, replaced most of the front end, installed a rear locker, built drawers and upgraded the stereo and completely baselined a truck with 167k, now 178k miles on it.

With the maintenance costs posted, I should have just bought the JKUR after all.

 

[2000UZJ]

$7800 dollars in a year?

Pretty much. Besides routine maintenance, I went through the entire vehicle replaced everything in the drive train short of the transmission and engine.

 

[uzj100]

Purchased 12/1/2006
Purchased $18,900 100k miles, all service records from mile 5 from the dealer, t-belt complete
$41,363 gas over 87 months at 3.5 a gallon
$60,263
$500 Lift, used
$900 sliders
$5,000 tires, 4 sets
$66,663
$50 steel tundra wheels, qty 4
$66,713
$600 starter
$67,313
$110 led kit
$67,423
$900 need timing belt
$68,323
$800 Brakes, I do them, 4 sets of pads
$69,123
$400 steering wheel
$69,523
$100 Leather Side panel of drivers seat
$69,623
$200 Side marker light and grill
$69,823
$70 Light bulbs
$69,893
$8,000 worth today
$61,893 Cost $711 a month to own and operate ($236 a month if you remove fuel)

 

[ntsaint]

I will play.

8/1/2009
Purchase 2006 100 CPO, 60k miles, $31,000

10/19/2010
Slee AHC Bypass Switch, $60

12/9/2010
AHC Fluid Change, $81

11/27/2010
WKOR Sliders, $560

7/5/2011
Nittor TerraG Tires, $1080

7/5/2011
MAF 30MM Spring Spacers, $200 installed

9/25/11
Front Brake Pads, turn rotors, $230

9/30/11
VIA On Board Air Setup, $399

7/5/12
Group31 DieHard Battery, $200

8/15/12
New Slee Rotors and Pads, $695

8/16/12
OEM CV Reboot Kit, $71

6/20/13
90k maintenance, everything possible, $1,173

6/30/30
New brake pads, all corners, $88

7/1/13
IPod Interface hookup, $175

7/15/13
Polk speakers all doors, $250

10/1/13
EMS midpipes, $600

1/3/14
Custom rear bumper, $2000

1/5/14
AHC fluid change, $80

1/30/14
Rear pass O2 Sensor, $130

Total in 4.5 years of ownership:
$8072, does NOT include oil changes, gas, air filters, or anything else that I'd have regardless of vehicle.

Total that would have been spent so far if I had NOT found Mud: probably $0

 

[pwcummings]

This. Also, how many people do PM on cars w/ 100k+ miles and 10+ years old? Mainly enthusiasts. I've been buying used Toyota 4x4s for more than a decade and what I've consumed by way of depreciation, maint, and fuel for the capability, safety and dependability is modest in a quantitive sense when compared to the purchase and operation of the "competition" to my 4runners and LCs. I reckon I've spent more keeping shoes on my feet for work, play and office than repairing and maintaining my Toyotas over the last 11 years which have flawlessly transported me and my family.

100% the way I feel about my Toyota 4x4s -my first was a 1994 v6 excab pickup. Bought it for $8k in 2002. Put 100k on it without ever changing tires (were new good years when purchased), or anything else. It left me stranded 1 time at a gas station (starter solenoid-$80 including tow). Sold it in 2006 to pay for my grad program (huge mistake) for $7500 - it was sold in 3 days. Sure if I had money at the time I would have dumped it into it but it really never begged for a repair. I babied the clutch, cold-shouldered most of the recommended maintenance (other than reg oil changes). I would do the same with the hundy if I didn't have the money...

In the year+ I have had my hundy I have done:
110k - cv boots - $400
111k - antenna mast -$30
115k - PM hose T's - $50 (hoses and all)
113k - pm spark plugs - $80
116k - both pre-cat O2 sensors (one threw code)
118k - pm diff and t-case fluids - $50
122k - (next month) will do new slee rotors and pad on all four tires - $600

Pfran LEDs were done somewheres in there as well - $80

That said - had I not been able to afford the pm stuff - I wouldn't have done them. Other than the hose T's and oil changes - I doubt my hundy runs much better right now than before I did the pm stuff.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[sosodefcane]

Interesting thread. I'll provide a slightly different perspective. First, best vehicle I've ever owned. Second, I can't wrench worth a damn and would rather spend my time doing other things, so all service performed by ToyOnly in Chamblee, GA. Third, I keep it bone stock. Here are my metrics:

2004 purchased in 2007 with 44k miles.

Purchase Price = $35,000
Current Value = $18,000 (OK, I'm optimistic, but it is as clean as they come)
Depreciation = $17,000
Current Miles = 152,763
Total Repairs/Maint = $9,053 (includes 2 sets of tires and 2 timing belts - I do them early, and yes I know that's not needed)
Total Depreciation and Repairs = $26,053
Total Miles Driven = 108,771
Total Cost per Mile = $0.24
Repairs/Maint per Mile = $0.08
Total Years Owned = 7
Total Cost per Year = $3,722
Repairs/Maint Cost per Year = $1,293

Thus, without depreciation, I'm paying $100 per month to drive one of the best vehicles on the planet. I can live with that.

 

[lx470cinci]

Bought my 2000 LX470 about a 1.5 years ago with 125k miles. No rust underneath, interior perfect, good paint. Prior owner had dealer maintenance logs. Drove really harsh until I did all the AHC maintenance. I have to admit, this truck is a lot of effort to rebaseline. If I did not do all the work myself, the dealer labor would have killed me. Dealer installed the tranny, I did not have time.

$40.....Spark plugs
...........Engine air filter and cabin air filter
$40.....Replaced the antenna mast
$60.....Replace front diff, rear diff, and center diff gear oil with Mobil 1
$25.....Bleed all the brakes
$60.....Replaced the AHC suspension fluid
$40.....Toyota Techstream to dial in the AHC
$40.....Replaced starter motor contacts (Cruiser Dan)
$170...Rear springs and shims
$1600.Replaced all 4 AHC accumulators
$3000.Toyota Reman Transmission
...........Lubed the drive shaft and U-joints. Got rid of the thunk.
...........Water leak in the sunroof addressed
...........Remedied the A/C water leak in the passenger footwell when the A/C was on
...........Remedied water leak around the rear spoiler
...........Drained and replaced the engine coolant and 2 plastic T fittings which are known to fail
$20.....Repacked and reset the preload on the front wheel bearings. M1 Grease
$142...Replaced the ignition rod (proactively)
...........Exhaust manifold ticks when cold (I will live with it for now).
$250...Windshield chip spread into a crack
$40.....Windshield washer pump
$80.....Air springs for rear
$300...Detailed to polish out swirls
...........Horn fixed (3 hours for me to troubleshoot and remedy)

Paint looks awesome after being professionally polished. It took years off the truck--I highly recommend it. I also give a thumbs up to Camelback Toyota Parts, their prices are awesome. The truck drives and looks like new--just eats gas. I'm glad I got all the preventative maintenance caught up. My family is very safe when we tow the boat on trips. If this forum did not exist, I would not own the vehicle--I would have been too frustrated, but thanks to MUD I really like the LX470. AHC is awesome.


Thank you Mudders!
Greg

 

[Sandroad]

Very interesting thread. I purchased mine when it was 5 years old with 58,000 miles for less than half the cost of a new one. Here are 5-years worth of total operating costs over 40,000 miles using OEM parts, with me doing all the labor except for programing a new key. I did not factor in depreciation because I have no intention of ever selling it (or at least not until I read this thread!). I did factor in insurance and registration, since they are higher on a Land Cruiser and I wanted a total cost of ownership. I have every reason to believe the next 5 years will cost even more, because by the time it’s 15 years old it will need some additional repair parts too. Ditto above posts about the value of MUD. Saved me many times.

Gas: $8700
Insurance: $4000
PM parts costs: $2175
Tires: $1200
Registration: $940
Cat-back exhaust $870
Nav & key updates: $475
Oil and fluids (all) $450
Battery & tray: $300

Total: $19,110 (about $319/month or about $0.48 per mile)


I keep costs records on my other vehicles and I’m going to run some totals for comparisons.

 

[hondarepairman]

I just don't understand how some of y'all do it. I repair vehicles professionally and some of the bills make me sick. I have never paid anyone anything to repair my vehicles and I still find myself complaining about the price of parts. (Which I get at a discount even) I'm still learning the systems of my freshly acquired lx but if anyone has questions about vehicles with an H on them (not the Korean ones) just ask away, I'd love to help.




...via IH8MUD app

 

[slimbuddha]

I bought my '99 cruiser March 2007 with around 63k Miles, currently at about 106k. In the 7 years here's my list not including upgrades( bumpers, front locker, sliders):

- TPS Sensor - Annoying but not an expensive or time consuming fix
- 2 Starters (2nd I went with the Napa New, with lifetime warranty). From my experience with family/friends vehicles of all makes/models, its not uncommon for a 15 year vehicle may need a new starter. This is annoying on a LC because of the time to replace, but otherwise, it isn't really that expensive. In most cases, it is just the contacts, which can be redone for about the same, or less than any other make/model replacement for a starter - WASH
- Master Window Switch (all windows except front-passenger worked, finally replaced it) Costly, but can be prevented if you "fix" it before it breaks with the instructions on this forum. I wish I would have done it a while back.
- 90k maintenance including water pump. Many, nay most, vehicles these days have timing belts that need to be replaced about the same interval as the LC. Maybe a bit more expensive with the LC, but its not way more expensive than other similar vehicles.

Wear items that would have been replaced on any vehicle, and as I would compare this to any SUV/Truck/Vehicle I would have otherwise, they are a wash:
1 set of tires (BFG's with around 40k, about to replace them)
Oil, lube, filters, etc
Battery - I only paid more because I went for "more".
Brakes - Comparable to other vehicles.. I paid less for my power-stops than my father-in-law did for his Lincoln LS rotors.

Gas: If you compare it to another similar sized SUV, or even a minivan, its not all that much worse. My Sienna only got about 22 in mixed driving, and if I didn't have all the modifications, I imagine I would be somewhere in the 16-18 mpg. I consider the difference negligible. If you compare it to a 30+ mpg sub-compact, its ridiculous, they are entirely different vehicles, with different capabilities.

At this point, I think the cost of ownership has been relatively low, considering how I use the vehicle, and what it is capable of. My plan is to use it for at least another 10 years.

 

[serenity]

I just don't understand how some of y'all do it. I repair vehicles professionally and some of the bills make me sick. I have never paid anyone anything to repair my vehicles and I still find myself complaining about the price of parts. (Which I get at a discount even) I'm still learning the systems of my freshly acquired lx but if anyone has questions about vehicles with an H on them (not the Korean ones) just ask away, I'd love to help.

...via IH8MUD app

I'd say it's love of our vehicles. I thoroughly enjoy driving my cruiser, even to work or the shops. I love hearing the engine growl and the turbo whistle. As such I am willing to spend to maintain my cruiser to keep the driving experience as enjoyable as it is.

I've spent a lot since I bought my 100 series in may, but it's been about ensuring that everything is as it should be and bringing a 260,000km vehicle up to scratch. Next year I envisage I will spend less on maintenance (major service is the exception) and more on mods.