Coolant Alert don't mix SSL (Pink) antifreeze in factory LL (red) systems.

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2001LC

2001LC

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Title deals with mix LL red Toyota antifreeze mixed with SLL pink. Which is ok but then you should use the more restrictive flush schedule of the red if done.

Below is from Toyota COM concerning SLL antifreeze. The last line states: "Compatible with Toyota red Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant"

Here the rub, whereas LL (Long Life red) may indeed be compatible with SLL (Super Long Life pink) Do not put SLL in a 100 series that came with red from the factory, without full flush or you waste your money. Since we can't get 100% old out during a flush, it's a waste. We still must stick with the more restrictive LL schedule of the lessor of 30K miles or 2 years.

Also SLL (pink) can only be used with a special FIPG part no: 08826-00100 seal packing 1282B, Which is used during water inlet install. To be clear all the 100 series FSM I've read do recommend the 128B FIPG. It just the 102 FIPG often gets used in systems with red coolant. Which IMHO is bad practice IMO. It was a Toyota shop foreman stated to my parts guy, the common 102 or 103 FIPG (is for oil) is use okay to use with LL (red). Again I'd not use any FIPG other than 1282B, in coolant systems.

Genuine OEM Toyota Motor Oil & Transmission Fluid for Your Toyota

Genuine Toyota Motor Oil & Transmission Fluid
Super Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant
This special pink formula provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates. It’s extremely durable and was developed specifically to meet the requirements of your Toyota’s engine.

  • Compatibility with non-metallic materials helps it extend the life of water pump seals.
  • Won’t corrode aluminum surfaces like coolants that contain borate.
  • Won’t clog radiators due to silicone "gelling."
  • Pre-diluted 50/50.
  • Compatible with Toyota red Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant.

FIPG
001.JPG
012.JPG
 
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Good info: makes good reason to check the owners manual for the correct coolant type to put in.

You ponied up for the expensive stuff- it's a lot of $$$ for a tube of FPIG. I think Toyota should include a small single use packet with the water pump kit, since it's so super special just for that application. Hard to justify that entire tube for 1 job- (doubtful it will keep until your next TB/water pump job unless you can vacuume seal it)
 
That's a great idea, as I only needed a tiny bit for water inlet housing. But Toyota as all manufactures just recommended taking to your local Dealer, and they use much more than us. Service center at Dealers' are major profit centers, one Honda Dealer shop I know of here in Denver see 20,000 cars a month. So not likely to gives us small amounts.

When I pick up my parts order at will-call I notice they'd give me the regular black ~$12.00. When I questioned it's use for coolant. I was told; "we've one for engine (black) and one for transmission (orange). It's the only two I've seen in 13 yeas". He was wrong.

As I started to install the water bypass (leak) & water inlet, I happen to find an old opened tube of 102 FIPG in my tool box. I'd used it last (opened at the time) to attach the foam piece to the front of a replacement radiator, worked great. I gave a call to my wholesale parts guy to asked how long the stuff lasted. He checked with the shop and they said " basically, they use old stuff as long as it flows", but said do not use 102FIPG on coolant systems with SLL (pink).

I looked back at my order and saw I order correctly, they just filled it wrong, happens no big deal. So back to the Dealer for the application correct stuff, retail at ~$90 my cost ~$67. Although this rig has red coolant in and I could continue it's use, the system calls for SLL (Pink). So it just wasn't correct application, and would amount sabotages of coolant system.

I usually DIY flushes but I can't evacuate that last gallon. Since this coolant system has red, I'll need to take into shop blow out or have it machine flushed to switch to the proper SLL (pink) to complete restoration of the 07. As my goal is to always bring back to factory spec.

This little leak which only needed a $2 gasket ends up costing me ~$400. As I found minor damage from what I suspect is electrolysis (ECD) on water bypass neck & upper radiator hose. So I replaced them along water inlet and thermostat, everything else look good.

My guess is PO wanting best for his Land Cruiser and had coolant flushed early at Toyota Dealer (who's idea??). Toyota history shows first flush at 30K (pink's good for 100K 1st flush then 50K thereafter) then again at 80K miles, likely switch to red. After that the next mechanic saw red, replaced red, but not until 156K miles, which would be model correct for miles. But this would be 76K miles and 7 1/2 years which is too long for LL red (30K or 2 year). Coolant has ECD inhibitors that break down after recommended flush interval. Coolant systems as we've learned form heater tee's is one of the few killers of the 2UZ-fe 4.7. Coolant and oil & lubes are so important to follow recommended schedule and do right.

This rig was Dealer maintained, last Dealer being Mountain States Toyota. Receipt shows they replace both front shocks in AHC system, Alignment, flushed coolant with 2 gallons of SSL (Pink), flushed transfer case & both differentials 10 qt's of gear lube, Flushed brake fluid, Flushed power steering fluid adding Z-max . ~$2,000.

Funny thing is:
Coolant systems requires 3 gallon SLL pink, they billed for 2 gallons SLL but used LL red.
They replace front shocks. AHC shocks rarely go bad, AHC just needs tuning as done when alignment with ACH adjustment.
They billed for 10qts of gear lube. But total systems takes is 6.7qts.
Flushed brake fluid, over filling and all bleeder caps missing.
Added Z-max to power steering ??? This may be something I do,as fluid looked ggod!

I spoke with the number two man in charge at the service department of Mountain State Toyota (he wrote the work order). He told they me do something like 4,500 cars a month. Wow... at the average of just $1,000 per vehicle that's $4.5 million a month. You'd thing they'd know what they're doing.

Every single 100 series I've owned in last 12 months (5), I've had to re-do most previous worked performed by the so called experts. I work to build logs on the history during pre & post DD inspection, so I get a good picture of maintenance history. When I'm done regular maintenance is all that's needed and they're reliable. I feel for the persons that has no mechanical skills, they're getting rob. They need to at least learned to take to specialist like Slee Off Road and get know there mechanic, not just sit in waiting room sipping coffee.
 
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While you are changing radiator hose and T stat- you can add an inline waterflow sensor at the hose connection point - this will tell you if coolant stops flowing- ahead of engine failure
 
Not arguing your case, but this is what March 22, 2002 Toyota TSB says:

A new pink colored LLC is being phased into production for all 2002 Japan Built
Toyota models. The color change does not affect the maintenance procedures or
intervals established for the red coolant. The new pink coolant is 100% compatible
with the current red coolant and red coolant can be used to replace, top off, or mix in
with the pink coolant with no adverse effects.

I have mixed those on few occasions in a pinch in the past 10 years. Although, I would always drain and refill the radiator with pink one in April and October regardless of mileage. I did the full drain at 150k per book just to see how it looked, and there was nothing to report. Also, helped a friend with his drain and refill of the original pink at 150k, and it looked like brand new from the jug: clear, no sediment, etc.
Also, came across a few units, where owners switch to either green or G-05 (Mercedes). 2 of those were well over 300k and the original radiator + hoses.

So, if a new coolant is incompatible with an old gasket material, that means they need to issue a new TSB.
 
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apdxyk said:
Not arguing your case, but this is what March 22, 2002 Toyota TSB says:

A new pink colored LLC is being phased into production for all 2002 Japan Built
Toyota models. The color change does not affect the maintenance procedures or
intervals established for the red coolant. The new pink coolant is 100% compatible
with the current red coolant and red coolant can be used to replace, top off, or mix in
with the pink coolant with no adverse effects.

I have mixed those on few occasions in a pinch in the past 10 years. Although, I would always drain and refill the radiator with pink one in April and October regardless of mileage. I did the full drain at 150k per book just to see how it looked, and there was nothing to report. Also, helped a friend with his drain and refill of the original pink at 150k, and it looked like brand new from the jug: clear, no sediment, etc.
Also, came across a few units, where owners switch to either green or G-05 (Mercedes). 2 of those were well over 300k and the original radiator + hoses.

So, if a new coolant is incompatible with an old gasket material, that means they need to issue a new TSB.
Click to expand...
In my first post "Toyota... red and pink compatibility" from Toyota. Was first thing I told parts counter at Toyota Dealer. They said they never recommend mixing. o_O Yet they didn't know about this special FIPG, nor Toyota states you can mix pink & red. That info on FIPG came from the shop foremen to me second hand.

I may have confused the issue with my OP title. It's my understanding the seals (gaskets) or system as a whole aren't affected by pink or red. Only the FIPG 102 is adversely by SLL pink.

When working on my parts list I use the 07 FSM. It gave a specific FIPG part no: 08826-00100 (1282B seal pack) which I ordered. That's why I question the retail parts counter when they gave me FIPG 102 in my box of parts. Also going back an looked at the 01 FSM which states same FIPG 1282B as 07.

Mixing pink & red I use most restrictive flush cycle:

If I added SLL pink in my 01 IMHO I'll have to get every drop of LL red out of the system first. Otherwise I'd waste my money as I would still need to flush every 30K or 2 year as recommenced by Toyota.

Same applies with coolant system that came with SLL Pink from the factory IMHO. That is, I must flush it based on Red recommendation of my OM from Toyota if I mix red into it. Not the 100K or 10 year 1st flush than 50K miles thereafter of SLL pink.

Coolant has ECD inhibitors that don't last as long in LL red as it does in SLL pinks. LL also has inorganic salts that attach with minerals in coolant system, creating deposits as it breaks down which is faster than SLL.

Aluminum is very susceptible to ECD, until this last week I did know so are the rubber hoses.

I noticed the shop mechanic that apparently installed this water pump, in below pictures, use a lot of FIPG on water inlet, I chocked it up to sloppy. Once I pulled water inlet I then saw in FIPG was coming off and loose on inside (outside was on tight). Under the loose FIPG I found pitting. I can not say when this was changed to red coolant or if the correct FIPG was used, but indication are the wrong (102) FIPG was used. I can say this rig was not serviced by the book, which is normal the case with ever shop maintained 100.

I suspect 102 FIPG was used here, than later SLL was switched to LL red. The inlet had a ton of FIPG that had oozed out of matting surface. Inside was loose at areas coolant contacted, outside held well an was difficult to scrape off. Pitting accrued under loose FIPG.
073.webp

For some reason this gasket failed. I replaced bypass & gaskets:
053.webp

I also replaced water inlet & hose:
062.webp
063.webp
041.webp


My 01LC has no pitting, nor was there any other pitting in this 07, I checked. My 01 has always been done by the Book.

This is the first time I've needed to replace above parts in a 100 series.
 
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abuck99 said:
While you are changing radiator hose and T stat- you can add an inline waterflow sensor at the hose connection point - this will tell you if coolant stops flowing- ahead of engine failure
Click to expand...
@abuck99 : Any more info on Water Flow Sensor?
I've seen advertised water level sensor for the upper radiator hose (common in OZ). Is this the same thing?
 
U-

I spent a lot of time googling it and I haven't found the ideal solution. As for In-Line sensors, I don't like the idea of putting another splice in the hoses for something like this- its just another point where a hose can leak or blow off. Maybe a 3 way connector with sensor to replace of one heater T could work.

Ideally- an overflow reservoir bottle with level sensor in it would be ideal (for me). Any leaks would likely draw down from the bottle first- and an idiot light mounted in the cab would give notice of low coolant. Thats the direction I'm leaning towards anyway.
 
The 03-05 and possibly other years. Has that unused sensor just below temperature sending unit in water by-pass joint. I've wonder if that could be utilized for a water sensor.
 
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2001LC said:
Title deals with mix LL red Toyota antifreeze mixed with SLL pink. Which is ok but then you should use the more restrictive flush schedule of the red if done.

Below is from Toyota COM concerning SLL antifreeze. The last line states: "Compatible with Toyota red Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant"

Here the rub, whereas LL (Long Life red) may indeed be compatible with SLL (Super Long Life pink) Do not put SLL in a 100 series that came with red from the factory, without full flush or you waste your money. Also SLL (pink) can only be used with a special FIPG part no: 08826-00100 seal packing 1282B, and can not be mixed in systems that have the more common 102 FIPG part no: 00295-00103. To be clear all the 100 series FSM I've read do recommend the 128B FIPG, it just the 102 FIPG often gets used in systems with red coolant,Not that is should be.

During water pump, water inlet service, FIPG 1282B is used. The very expensive 1282B FIPG can be used in any system, but the common 102 or 103 FIPG (is for oil) is used with LL (red).

This info that FIPG 102 can be used with LL red comes from a Toyota Dealer shop foremen, to me, second hand. I really need to go speak with shop foreman in person. Regardless I'll only use 1282B FIPG on any coolant system.

Genuine OEM Toyota Motor Oil & Transmission Fluid for Your Toyota

Genuine Toyota Motor Oil & Transmission Fluid
Super Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant
This special pink formula provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates. It’s extremely durable and was developed specifically to meet the requirements of your Toyota’s engine.

  • Compatibility with non-metallic materials helps it extend the life of water pump seals.
  • Won’t corrode aluminum surfaces like coolants that contain borate.
  • Won’t clog radiators due to silicone "gelling."
  • Pre-diluted 50/50.
  • Compatible with Toyota red Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant.
FIPG
1418230

1418231
Click to expand...

I looked at both Toyota LLC and SLLC data sheets, the differences between them are percentage of Ethylene Glycol and water contents. I believe they are the same (except for the color) when LLC is diluted to 50/50. I use Zerex Asian Red/Blue 50/50 Pre-mixed coolant in my 1999 LX/LC, so far so good.

LLC:
Ethylene Glycol107-21-187 - 95 %
Water7732-18-5Less than 5%

SLLC:
Ethylene Glycol107-21-145 - 50 %
Water7732-18-545 - 50 %
 
Most any Ethylene Glycol can be used, FSM clear on this. I once bough Aisin Toyota coolant to save a few $$. But then I saw slight difference in ingredients, so I did not use.

Go back and read ingredients on the jugs! You will see slight differences. This is true of between LL or SLL or non Toyota

They all may be just fine. But I stick with Toyota coolant red LL or pink SLL, depending on year of vehicle, for the few pennies more. This way, I've no question as to compatibility and serviceable life. Additionally the next owner/driver can be assured it is to factory spec if it came from my shop!
 
Beyond ethylene glycol concentration, there is a chemical difference between the two Toyota types (SL &SLL)- its the concentration of additives which provide a longer service interval for SLL. This can also be observed in the way that SLL forms the pink crust at leaking components where the the SL doesnt do this.

I have studied the MSDS for SL &SLL and if I recall there is a third chemical component listed. I’ll see if I can find them.

In the end these are cross compatible however the best result for a corrosion free cooling circuit is frequent flush and replacement of coolant(24-36months). SLL is not considerably more expensive- @ $14~15 a gallon. Its not worth it (to me) to use a generic coolant, when the branded Toyota SLL is the superior product for the application.
 
2001LC said:
They all may be just fine. But I stick with Toyota coolant red LL or pink SLL, depending on year of vehicle, for the few pennies more. This way, I've no question as to compatibility and serviceable life. Additionally the next owner/driver can be assured it is to factory spec if it came from my shop!
Click to expand...

That is very different from started a thread with title "Coolant Alert don't mix SSL (Pink) antifreeze in factory LL (red) systems." I wouldn't have responded if your tilte was "I stick with Toyota coolant red LL or pink SLL".
 
abuck99 said:
Beyond ethylene glycol concentration, there is a chemical difference between the two Toyota types (SL &SLL)- its the concentration of additives which provide a longer service interval for SLL. This can also be observed in the way that SLL forms the pink crust at leaking components where the the SL doesnt do this.

I have studied the MSDS for SL &SLL and if I recall there is a third chemical component listed. I’ll see if I can find them.

In the end these are cross compatible however the best result for a corrosion free cooling circuit is frequent flush and replacement of coolant(24-36months). SLL is not considerably more expensive- @ $14~15 a gallon. Its not worth it (to me) to use a generic coolant, when the branded Toyota SLL is the superior product for the application.
Click to expand...

I compared them again after reading your post, I found red LLC has less than 5% of Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6 in it this time. Pink SLLC doesn't have this. For reference, these are the 2 data sheets I used.

http://weblink.carquest.com/msds/ANT/ANT 00272-SLLC2.pdf
http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/SDS_00272-1LLAC_Toyota_Genuine_Coolant.pdf
 
JTinAZ said:
What about this?

View attachment 1954338
Click to expand...
It's very clear. You can mix. But note, it also states: does not affect interval established for RED. Means you must flush every 30K or 2 years regardless if red has been in the system. One could flush three times over 6 years or 90K. Then feel safe about going out to 5 year of 50K, when swapping up to pink.

Personally I prefer RED 100% that I mix with distilled water. It's easier to flush the way I do it. I also feel flushing fluid more often is better. That said I always use year corrected coolant. That way one only need follow their vehicles PM schedule.

Few more note I've stated before:
I find more crumbling heaters Tee's in models with factory pink installed with less mileage and newer like in 06-07 vs 2001. IMHO it has to do with the plasticize leaching out during the long interval of SLL. On the jugs it state "property" this is where the plasticize is IMHO.
 
I'm about to replace my radiator soon. Do you guys know how much gallons of Toyota Red long life coolant I would need?

Thanks in advanced.
 
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