Cool YouTube video comparing LC200 Gwagen and others

[82SC]

Interesting video. Haven’t seen many review videos with a Gwagen stateside.

looks like it was shot in Russia or in that region but commentary is in English.

 

[Madtiger]

For LC, you should always use CRAWL over technical slow going terrain. MTS is not that good at least in my use.

Land Rover traction control is really good…easily on par with CRAWL.

MB G-wagon lockers, when all activated, remains king over technical stuff. There is no substitution for a fully locked vehicle…either G or Jeep Rubicon.

 

[highfructose]

For LC, you should always use CRAWL over technical slow going terrain. MTS is not that good at least in my use.

Land Rover traction control is really good…easily on par with CRAWL.

MB G-wagon lockers, when all activated, remains king over technical stuff. There is no substitution for a fully locked vehicle…either G or Jeep Rubicon.

In your opinion, would there be any benefit to having crawl AND a triple locked vehicle? Or would triple locking an lc200 basically make the crawl redundant and largely useless?

 

[Madtiger]

In your opinion, would there be any benefit to having crawl AND a triple locked vehicle? Or would triple locking an lc200 basically make the crawl redundant and largely useless?

CRAWL allows you to do technical stuff that needs steering…like tight switchbacks. But for something that is straight or mildly curvy, the rougher / technical path, the more the lockers shine. No matter how good CRAWL is (and it is…i am a fanboy of it), it is still reactionary (there must be [tiny bit of] slippage before ECU knows to brake that slipping wheel and shift power to the other wheel on same axle)…while lockers are proactive (full power to both wheels on same axle all the time). And reactionary systems risk losing momentum, which can be vital in a climb…as can be seen in video above.

So, yeah, ideally, having both axle lockers AND CRAWL would be cool. Note that 4runner TRD models have CRAWL and rear locker (it is a part-time 4wd system…so no need for CDL).

But again, LC is not a rock crawler…it is too big & too heavy. While clearances are very good for big SUV, it is not as clean as some other more dedicated off-roader (Rubicon, Bronco). So, CRAWl, in 99% of usage for 99% of LC customers, is plenty capable. I read that CRAWL in LC is actually more “durable” than CRAWL in other Toyotas...in that it can remain active longer before shutting down due to overheating ABS system.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[04UZJ100]

In your opinion, would there be any benefit to having crawl AND a triple locked vehicle? Or would triple locking an lc200 basically make the crawl redundant and largely useless?

Locking everything would totally defeat the functionality of any traction control system because the whole idea is transfer of power across the drive axle to the other side via brake force distribution.

When the axles are locked, there can be no transfer of power.

 

[Madtiger]

Locking everything would totally defeat the functionality of any traction control system because the whole idea is transfer of power across the drive axle to the other side via brake force distribution.

When the axles are locked, there can be no transfer of power.

Having both allows you to switch between the systems for different terrain and difficulty. But yeah, you cannot have both active at same time because lockers negate need for CRAWL.

 

[Lester did that]

I love the G wagon for all of it's stock capabilities. They are insane out of the box. I can not stand the gap around the doors. It is a dang shame 99.9% of the owners never use them for what they are built to do. My wife's mom has an AMG G wagon in a pearl white and I beg her all the time to take it out on some light trails and it is always a NO! Take dad out in the LC.

Fun video. User friendly 4x4. It would be great to see the same driver in all of the vehicles.

 

[Madtiger]

I love the G wagon for all of it's stock capabilities. They are insane out of the box. I can not stand the gap around the doors. It is a dang shame 99.9% of the owners never use them for what they are built to do. My wife's mom has an AMG G wagon in a pearl white and I beg her all the time to take it out on some light trails and it is always a NO! Take dad out in the LC.

Fun video. User friendly 4x4. It would be great to see the same driver in all of the vehicles.

The problem with G is the insane repair and maintenance costs. Been there done that. I had window regulators go out every 15k miles. I had sunroof leaks. Navigation / headunit died. Just little things always go wrong. Lockers do take their time to lock. And the worst one was engine mount cracking...that was the last straw for me. Hand built my ass.

The other issue with G for off-roading is the lack of protective armor. At least on my old G, there was no skid over transfer case which is just at frame height…but i think that it is a “European” thing or something because most vehicles of that era did not have skid over TC.

The biggest issue was the lack of sliders. There was ONE company that made sliders for G back in my day…….but that slider attached to the door sills (where running boards attached)…so, it was not a true slider but more like tough steel running boards for minor impact. The door sill holes were reinforced but still…. The side exhaust is what killed all attempts at making sliders that attaches to frame…similar to why Lexus LX sliders are so hard to design for. The exhaust in G is much worst than AHC stuff of LX.

 

[Lester did that]

Locking everything would totally defeat the functionality of any traction control system because the whole idea is transfer of power across the drive axle to the other side via brake force distribution.

When the axles are locked, there can be no transfer of power.

Before a traction control system if you where serious about driving off road you just locked the rear and in a pinch the front. You also had the knowledge how to drive off road and really had a deep understanding of the rigs drive train and its nuances. That is going away with an electronic switch. Fully locked is a beast. If you can drive with two feet, gas pedal, clutch, break and shift at the same time you are a dying breed. And you probably don't get stuck often and when you do you already saw it coming and have it figured out before it happens. But all we need to now is flip a switch and let a computer think for us. If it doesn't work blame the vehicle not the driver.

 

[Lester did that]

The problem with G is the insane repair and maintenance costs. Been there done that. I had window regulators go out every 15k miles. I had sunroof leaks. Navigation / headunit died. Just little things always go wrong. Lockers do take their time to lock. And the worst one was engine mount cracking...that was the last straw for me. Hand built my ass.

That sums it up. They are insanely expensive to maintain! And parts are hard to find. It's pretty much complete custom fabrication if you want to change anything from stock. I still have a love hate thing with the G wagon.

 

[highfructose]

CRAWL allows you to do technical stuff that needs steering…like tight switchbacks. But for something that is straight or mildly curvy, the rougher / technical path, the more the lockers shine. No matter how good CRAWL is (and it is…i am a fanboy of it), it is still reactionary (there must be [tiny bit of] slippage before ECU knows to brake that slipping wheel and shift power to the other wheel on same axle)…while lockers are proactive (full power to both wheels on same axle all the time). And reactionary systems risk losing momentum, which can be vital in a climb…as can be seen in video above.

So, yeah, ideally, having both axle lockers AND CRAWL would be cool. Note that 4runner TRD models have CRAWL and rear locker (it is a part-time 4wd system…so no need for CDL).

But again, LC is not a rock crawler…it is too big & too heavy. While clearances are very good for big SUV, it is not as clean as some other more dedicated off-roader (Rubicon, Bronco). So, CRAWl, in 99% of usage for 99% of LC customers, is plenty capable. I read that CRAWL in LC is actually more “durable” than CRAWL in other Toyotas...in that it can remain active longer before shutting down due to overheating ABS system.

Just my 2 cents.

Is crawl completely reactionary? Or partially reactionary?

To me it would seem it’s partially reactionary...being that it is automatically braking various tires the entire time, even with no slip. I think it just AGGRESSIVELY brakes a tire if it spins more than the computer thinks it should. That’s the partially reactionary portion.

it would seem atrac/mts are COMPLETELY reactionary in that they ONLY engage brakes if there is slip...rather than constantly stuttering brakes the way crawl does.

that’s how it seems to me anyway. What do you think?

 

[Madtiger]

Is crawl completely reactionary? Or partially reactionary?

To me it would seem it’s partially reactionary...being that it is automatically braking various tires the entire time, even with no slip. I think it just AGGRESSIVELY brakes a tire if it spins more than the computer thinks it should. That’s the partially reactionary portion.

it would seem atrac/mts are COMPLETELY reactionary in that they ONLY engage brakes if there is slip...rather than constantly stuttering brakes the way crawl does.

that’s how it seems to me anyway. What do you think?

I can see your point(s). I don’t have anything to say that you’re wrong in what you wrote. Maybe someone with more experience/knowledge can chime in.

 

[Tex68w]

G-Wagen's are definitely cool but the horrid maintenance and lack of any aftermarket keeps me away. That said, I do drool over them when I see pics of them lifted, I can say the same for fully built Defender 110's as well.

 

[highfructose]

G-Wagen's are definitely cool but the horrid maintenance and lack of any aftermarket keeps me away. That said, I do drool over them when I see pics of them lifted, I can say the same for fully built Defender 110's as well.

The thing that steers me away from g wagons is that when you lift something you sort of counter some of the “safety” of the vehicle insofar as you lift the center of gravity.

the nice thing about 200’s and wranglers is that you can fit 33’s (and potentially 35’s) without lifting them...and 33 (35 in the right platform) is a good “medium” between offroad and highway use. This lifts the center of gravity too...but not quite like larger tires AND a lift does.

i think g wagons only clear 33’s with a lift.

 

[04UZJ100]

Before a traction control system if you where serious about driving off road you just locked the rear and in a pinch the front. You also had the knowledge how to drive off road and really had a deep understanding of the rigs drive train and its nuances. That is going away with an electronic switch. Fully locked is a beast. If you can drive with two feet, gas pedal, clutch, break and shift at the same time you are a dying breed. And you probably don't get stuck often and when you do you already saw it coming and have it figured out before it happens. But all we need to now is flip a switch and let a computer think for us. If it doesn't work blame the vehicle not the driver.

And? I answered a question. Never said anything about driver ability.

Before EFI and batteries you had to start your car with a hand crank:...

 

[Tex68w]

The thing that steers me away from g wagons is that when you lift something you sort of counter some of the “safety” of the vehicle insofar as you lift the center of gravity.

the nice thing about 200’s and wranglers is that you can fit 33’s (and potentially 35’s) without lifting them...and 33 (35 in the right platform) is a good “medium” between offroad and highway use. This lifts the center of gravity too...but not quite like larger tires AND a lift does.

i think g wagons only clear 33’s with a lift.

You're probably in the minority here in not wanting to lift your vehicle.

 

[greynolds]

G-Wagen's are definitely cool but the horrid maintenance and lack of any aftermarket keeps me away. That said, I do drool over them when I see pics of them lifted, I can say the same for fully built Defender 110's as well.

Yeah, the maintenance costs are pretty steep. I owned a 2014 G550, 2016 G550, and 2017 G63 (resale values were great, so i didn’t lose much each time I traded in). While under warranty, the costs aren‘t too bad, but even some of the routine stuff like brakes is crazy $$$. I don’t think I’d want to own one outside of warranty though, which is a huge part of why I traded the 2017 in for the LC. Parts availability can be an issue as well - it took about 9 months to get replacement tail lights for the G63, for example (under warrant, fortunately).

That said, I actually didn’t have too many problems with any of them and really enjoyed driving them, especially the G63.

 

[hickuptruck]

Yeah, I was one very very close to pulling the trigger on a W463 G-wagen and doing a moderate build like 10 years ago. I then started pricing all the parts out, and jeez, the G-wagen tax for aftermarket offroad parts is insanely expensive, and not even close to the selection that the 100 series had.

 

[highfructose]

You're probably in the minority here in not wanting to lift your vehicle.

yeah one of the main reasons I settled on the 200 was safety...the wrangler cleared 33’s with no lift, but it didn’t have side curtain airbags. Lifts are fun and I used to like them. But I used to like motorcycles too.

 

[greynolds]

Yeah, I was one very very close to pulling the trigger on a W463 G-wagen and doing a moderate build like 10 years ago. I then started pricing all the parts out, and jeez, the G-wagen tax for aftermarket offroad parts is insanely expensive, and not even close to the selection that the 100 series had.

IMHO, the lack of selection is a far bigger problem than the pricing. One of the biggest issues is that there are very few aftermarket bumper choices, which seems odd since there are quite a few G-wagens around the world at this point and the body design hadn't radically changed for a long time. If you want to mount a winch, you pretty much have to fabricate your own bumper. And as @Madtiger said, there's pretty much nothing out there for rock sliders. Bumpers, rock sliders, and lifts are probably 3 of the top 5 things someone might want to change on any vehicle used off road. A roof rack is another big one, but there are options in that category.

What really sealed the deal for me on switching over to a LC was the pricing on the 2019+ G-wagens. The price for one comparably configured to my 2017 went up by about $20-25K and quite a few dealers have been charging around $50K over MSRP due to demand. I would never even consider paying over MSRP for a vehicle (unless I won Powerball...), but the higher prices really put them out of my comfort zone.

It's too bad that Toyota isn't going to bring the 300 series into the US (at least for now), but it will be interesting to see what they do with the Lexus version. If they do an off road version of the LX, many of us might be happy with that next time we want to buy something new. The front bumper on the current LX-570 is not my cup of tea...