- Thread starter
- #121
Like I said, those guys are pros. I'm a backyard hack jobber.
I contacted them for some assistance and heard no reply.
FAQ Converting HF2AV Transfer Case into Part Time Transfer Case (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter OGBeno
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Like I said, those guys are pros. I'm a backyard hack jobber.
I contacted them for some assistance and heard no reply.
Just sent them an email and will post if they reply.
I am a backyard hack too.... but currently resto-modding a 74 Ramcharger, frame up, so time and garage space are not available for this anytime soon.
Very curious as to what they would charge for a drop off the LC, pick it up, type of deal. I would supply Aisin hubs, as my early 94 should have the short birfs. I am leaning towards this becoming a reminder why I try to do everything myself, I doubt it will be cheap.
I am a backyard hack too.... but currently resto-modding a 74 Ramcharger, frame up, so time and garage space are not available for this anytime soon.
Very curious as to what they would charge for a drop off the LC, pick it up, type of deal. I would supply Aisin hubs, as my early 94 should have the short birfs. I am leaning towards this becoming a reminder why I try to do everything myself, I doubt it will be cheap.
I heard back and got some prices.. I will assume they wouldn't mind if I posted on here. They want $300 for the welded piece, I install it. For that I would probably just buy the Mark's kit.
For 600 they will install the whole thing, install a CDL switch, so basically the whole deal minus hubs. I already have the CDL installed, and would put Aisan hubs on myself. So for maybe 500-550 they would modify the t-case. The whole drop it off and pick it up done deal is appealing, still a lot of money though. I've never farmed anything out on the 80, but these guys seem legit and have done the swap already. I'm sure I could dig in the transfer case myself, just not sure I really want to! If I muck something up while in there it opens up a whole other can of worms.
For 600 they will install the whole thing, install a CDL switch, so basically the whole deal minus hubs. I already have the CDL installed, and would put Aisan hubs on myself. So for maybe 500-550 they would modify the t-case. The whole drop it off and pick it up done deal is appealing, still a lot of money though. I've never farmed anything out on the 80, but these guys seem legit and have done the swap already. I'm sure I could dig in the transfer case myself, just not sure I really want to! If I muck something up while in there it opens up a whole other can of worms.
- Thread starter
- #124
It's really not that difficult. The xfer case is pretty self explanatory when you open it up and you are only going as far as the rear extension housing and the center diff portion.
ACC does do good work.
ACC does do good work.
- Thread starter
- #125
Well, finally got her buttoned back up today after months of doing other projects/taking trips, etc.
Re-assembling the xfer was not a big issue at all, just follow the FSM and use the torque specs. I do recommend that you take the crossmember and drop it about 2-3 inches to give you good room. Also, re-install the front driveshaft and lock the hubs so you have some resistance when you are torquing down the rear case bolts (first go around: 65 ft/lb, loosen, then tighten to 72 ft/lb). FIPG is kind of a mess doing it on my back underneath my rig. Keeping the thrust washer's in place was also a slight challenge (I used some grease and they held in place just fine). All of the bolts receive Locktite Blue (medium strength). All housing bolts were torqued to 27ft/lbs. Everything went together quite reasonably actually. No real issues, just lowering the stock cross member which is totally hacked up on my rig....go figure.
No pics because really disassembly is the fun part. The welded center diff rear case worked great so far of about 100 miles of testing at slow speeds/highway speeds all in 2WD. Then I did a few miles with the center diff locked/front hubs engaged in 4H and no issues there as well. I did put her into 4L and everything went well there, though I do want to do a local wheeling trip here soon (day trip) to really test out the strength of the case.
Overall, I am very happy and getting underneath the rig with it in 2H and spinning the front driveshaft was way cool.
I feel so old school now.
Anyway, that's about it for this thread I guess. I will add more thoughts about how it drives as a DD and in 4L situations after some more miles, but at this point I am very, very happy with this modification (some might argue a "step back" but I disagree) and look forward to hearing other's results as well since there were numerous people who did the group buy on Mark's kit.
In terms of cost, the break down was roughly this:
1. Birf Machining: $100
2. Used hubs/rebuild: $100
3. Gear oil: $5
4. FIPG (Toyota red stuff): $10
So for about $215 I was able to transform the rig into a PT case.
Now, the intangibles: my labor time (who cares--this is too fun); machining of a spacer out of "ultra high molecular density" plastic: Kris will have to address that as he took the lead on the design and machining process (thoroughly repeatable). Of course, the welding of the case: probably about $100 at a metal working shop, or do it yourself like Kris did.
Anyway, Kris will be doing his rig soon as well, so we'll have two rigs like this on the road from this episode running UHMW plastic spacer and welded diff.
Thanks for watching.
-onur
Re-assembling the xfer was not a big issue at all, just follow the FSM and use the torque specs. I do recommend that you take the crossmember and drop it about 2-3 inches to give you good room. Also, re-install the front driveshaft and lock the hubs so you have some resistance when you are torquing down the rear case bolts (first go around: 65 ft/lb, loosen, then tighten to 72 ft/lb). FIPG is kind of a mess doing it on my back underneath my rig. Keeping the thrust washer's in place was also a slight challenge (I used some grease and they held in place just fine). All of the bolts receive Locktite Blue (medium strength). All housing bolts were torqued to 27ft/lbs. Everything went together quite reasonably actually. No real issues, just lowering the stock cross member which is totally hacked up on my rig....go figure.
No pics because really disassembly is the fun part. The welded center diff rear case worked great so far of about 100 miles of testing at slow speeds/highway speeds all in 2WD. Then I did a few miles with the center diff locked/front hubs engaged in 4H and no issues there as well. I did put her into 4L and everything went well there, though I do want to do a local wheeling trip here soon (day trip) to really test out the strength of the case.
Overall, I am very happy and getting underneath the rig with it in 2H and spinning the front driveshaft was way cool.
I feel so old school now.
Anyway, that's about it for this thread I guess. I will add more thoughts about how it drives as a DD and in 4L situations after some more miles, but at this point I am very, very happy with this modification (some might argue a "step back" but I disagree) and look forward to hearing other's results as well since there were numerous people who did the group buy on Mark's kit.
In terms of cost, the break down was roughly this:
1. Birf Machining: $100
2. Used hubs/rebuild: $100
3. Gear oil: $5
4. FIPG (Toyota red stuff): $10
So for about $215 I was able to transform the rig into a PT case.
Now, the intangibles: my labor time (who cares--this is too fun); machining of a spacer out of "ultra high molecular density" plastic: Kris will have to address that as he took the lead on the design and machining process (thoroughly repeatable). Of course, the welding of the case: probably about $100 at a metal working shop, or do it yourself like Kris did.
Anyway, Kris will be doing his rig soon as well, so we'll have two rigs like this on the road from this episode running UHMW plastic spacer and welded diff.
Thanks for watching.
-onur
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great to see you got her buttoned up. This makes me want to do this mod more and more. I am trying to source some hubs as we speak. This may be a stupid question, but would it be possible to MIG weld the center diff together vs TIG'ing it? I understand TIG is preferred, but other than probably being a lot less pretty I feel like MIG would be plenty strong?
Kudos Onur! can't wait to get mine done.........
can't wait to get mine done.........
- Thread starter
- #129
Not sure on that. I will let Kris or someone who is more versed in welding processes answer this one. I know Kris will do his wekding process differently this time around on his than we did on mine.
MIG or TIG? This is where Pinhead or one of the guys that's closer to being a professional welder could best answer the question. I suppose you could GMAW the gear but you'll be generating A LOT more heat in the part which may cause the housing to distort. As it was, when we welded the case for Onur's truck the flange was no longer true when finished. Based on the installation is appears to be a non-issue but the next case will be welded in stages to try and keep the heat imparted to the part a little lower and more consistant.
alia176
SILVER Star
Jeez, it's about freaking time....
Nice job.
Nice job.
I have some news on the hub topic regarding use of the IFS hubs and Bobby Long's conversion gear. The jist of the install is a change in the location of the second machined groove for those with 4/94 & later birfs or Long's. In essence the IFS hubs and Bobby's gear work great but is not 100% plug and play for those that are OCD and absolutely positively must have the outer snap-ring installed. I'll post up some pics and measurements tomorrow to clarify. This isn't the end of the world and I'll explain.
- Thread starter
- #133
Emphasis added for what Kris is doing which is slightly different than what I did.
You must be confusing me with someone that is actually a welder. I only welded muffler tube as part of my job and it was all OA welding. I took a welding class and stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night too.
From my reading you're no amatuer with a welder. The biggest thing is you know the processes, techniques and amchines which is significant.
Okay, you have a part time kit or have welded your center diff and are looking for hubs. If you’ve found a set of Land Cruiser hubs or purchased a set of 105 hubs disregard the following info. If on the other hand you have procured a set if mini-truck IFS hubs with the idea of installing Bobby Long’s hub gears I have some information for you because they are not 100% plug and play for the OCD crowd.
Let me start by stating I don’t use the outer snap-rings and haven’t for some time. I also don’t use the birf snap-rings because they aren’t going anywhere not to mention both axles have a Martack. There are a number of Land Cruiser and mini-truck guys that don’t bother with snap-rings either. With that said let me show you what came about as a result of my installation of the IFS hubs with Bobby Long’s conversion hub gear. As you can see in the pictures below the snap-ring groove on the early birf and the machined groove on the late birf falls under the hub gear and is not usable. I don’t recall who it was but due to the hub dial using a snap-ring on the outer groove and shims/spacers is not an option. At any rate after taking measurements I have come to the conclusion that with this setup snap-rings cannot be used.
I don’t have the ability at work to attach a PDF so a full on visual will be delayed. I measure birfs a little differently, from the bearing surface on the birf that rides against the bronze bushing in the spindle rather than from the end because the bearing surface will never change but the length could be off slightly fom one unit to another. For now try to follow along with my explanation and I will do my best to figure a way to post a drawing of to more clearly illustrate what I’m talking about:
See next post for sketch in pdf format of how I measured birfs
Early birf <4/94
Axle stub length is 168mm. The snap-ring groove is 160mm from the bearing surface and is 3mm wide (160-163mm).
Late birf 4/94 & later and Longfield’s
Axle stub length is 176mm. The snap ring groove is 167mm from the bearing surface and 3mm wide (167-170mm).
IFS hubs with Longfield hub gear
The snap-ring groove needs to be at 165mm from the bearing surface and 3mm wide. This would make to total groove from 165-168mm from the bearing surface. As you can see we’d be 1mm into the existing groove of the longer birfs. That would make the total groove from 165-170mm which will do no good in maintaining birf location. The only way this could work is if Bobby was able to alter the location of the groove (unlikely) or offer birfs with no groove so customers could machine a groove for their specific installation. As I mentioned above I don’t use snap-rings so I don’t care but others may want to use them.
I would also like to make it clear this issue is NOT related to Bobby's hub gear because it functions as intended but was designed for mini-trucks and other Land Cruisers. Use in the 80 is not what it was specifically designed for. I have nothing but props
for Bobby as we had a great phone conversation as I thought I had ordered the incorrect hub gears.
The moral of this story is if you want to use Longfield’s hub gear to convert IFS hubs don’t plan on using snap-ring or locate a set of 30 spline Land Cruiser hubs that will fit as Onur’s pics depict.
If there are any questions ask or flame away.
Pre-4/94 birf shown with IFS hub with Long’s hub gear. Notice the snap-ring groove cannot be seen.
Post 4/94 birf shown with IFS hub with Long’s gear. Notice the original snap-ring groove and the second machined groove is hidden under the gear.
Let me start by stating I don’t use the outer snap-rings and haven’t for some time. I also don’t use the birf snap-rings because they aren’t going anywhere not to mention both axles have a Martack. There are a number of Land Cruiser and mini-truck guys that don’t bother with snap-rings either. With that said let me show you what came about as a result of my installation of the IFS hubs with Bobby Long’s conversion hub gear. As you can see in the pictures below the snap-ring groove on the early birf and the machined groove on the late birf falls under the hub gear and is not usable. I don’t recall who it was but due to the hub dial using a snap-ring on the outer groove and shims/spacers is not an option. At any rate after taking measurements I have come to the conclusion that with this setup snap-rings cannot be used.
I don’t have the ability at work to attach a PDF so a full on visual will be delayed. I measure birfs a little differently, from the bearing surface on the birf that rides against the bronze bushing in the spindle rather than from the end because the bearing surface will never change but the length could be off slightly fom one unit to another. For now try to follow along with my explanation and I will do my best to figure a way to post a drawing of to more clearly illustrate what I’m talking about:
See next post for sketch in pdf format of how I measured birfs
Early birf <4/94
Axle stub length is 168mm. The snap-ring groove is 160mm from the bearing surface and is 3mm wide (160-163mm).
Late birf 4/94 & later and Longfield’s
Axle stub length is 176mm. The snap ring groove is 167mm from the bearing surface and 3mm wide (167-170mm).
IFS hubs with Longfield hub gear
The snap-ring groove needs to be at 165mm from the bearing surface and 3mm wide. This would make to total groove from 165-168mm from the bearing surface. As you can see we’d be 1mm into the existing groove of the longer birfs. That would make the total groove from 165-170mm which will do no good in maintaining birf location. The only way this could work is if Bobby was able to alter the location of the groove (unlikely) or offer birfs with no groove so customers could machine a groove for their specific installation. As I mentioned above I don’t use snap-rings so I don’t care but others may want to use them.
I would also like to make it clear this issue is NOT related to Bobby's hub gear because it functions as intended but was designed for mini-trucks and other Land Cruisers. Use in the 80 is not what it was specifically designed for. I have nothing but props
for Bobby as we had a great phone conversation as I thought I had ordered the incorrect hub gears. The moral of this story is if you want to use Longfield’s hub gear to convert IFS hubs don’t plan on using snap-ring or locate a set of 30 spline Land Cruiser hubs that will fit as Onur’s pics depict.
If there are any questions ask or flame away.
Pre-4/94 birf shown with IFS hub with Long’s hub gear. Notice the snap-ring groove cannot be seen.
Post 4/94 birf shown with IFS hub with Long’s gear. Notice the original snap-ring groove and the second machined groove is hidden under the gear.
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Quick and dirty sketch (attachment & link) with measurements of the early, late & Longfield's and ideal setup for the IFS hubs with Longfield hub gear. As measured from the bearing surface.
The sketch shows the ideal location of the snap-ring groove for the IFS hub w/ the Longfield conversion hub gear. As you can see it overlaps the standard groove which if added would widen it to 5mm. Will having an additional 3mm gap make a difference, probably not. The only concern is for those who wish to install the snap-ring in the OEM location, it will interfere with the hub dial unless you get happy with a dremel.
I hope this better illustrates how I measured the birfs and fitment if you are considering converting IFS mini-truck hubs.
The sketch shows the ideal location of the snap-ring groove for the IFS hub w/ the Longfield conversion hub gear. As you can see it overlaps the standard groove which if added would widen it to 5mm. Will having an additional 3mm gap make a difference, probably not. The only concern is for those who wish to install the snap-ring in the OEM location, it will interfere with the hub dial unless you get happy with a dremel.
I hope this better illustrates how I measured the birfs and fitment if you are considering converting IFS mini-truck hubs.
Whats the width of the snap ring? Could you groove and put in 2 snaprings?
Great thread
Great thread
- Thread starter
- #139
Whats the width of the snap ring? Could you groove and put in 2 snaprings?
Great thread
Snap ring width is about 2.4mm.
Not a bad idea but two snap rings won't fit the converted IFS hubs as the outer snap ring will interfere with the inside of the hub dial.
