Cruiserdrew
On the way there
They look brand new. Very nice.
Did you use the Longfield hub gears?
Did you use the Longfield hub gears?
FAQ Converting HF2AV Transfer Case into Part Time Transfer Case (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter OGBeno
- Start date
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Dude!!! What happened to using the correct color on the hub dials?
I'll have some info on the diff case and spacer tomorrow night.
I'll have some info on the diff case and spacer tomorrow night.
- Thread starter
- #64
Sorry. Decided to go mini-truck Red. 
And no I ended up not upgrading to the Long hub gear. I wanna see how well these work!
And thanks for the suggestion Paul...
And no I ended up not upgrading to the Long hub gear. I wanna see how well these work!
And thanks for the suggestion Paul...
DanS HJ-45
SILVER Star
Those pictures don't look as good assembled as they do in real life. Seriously.
Buy another set of dials (or two more). Then you can replace them for whatever your mood is... Blue, Gold, Red...
BTW--the original ASCO lockouts (like on the pre-79 55s) were red. The mini-trucks just copied the cruisers.
Dan
Buy another set of dials (or two more). Then you can replace them for whatever your mood is... Blue, Gold, Red...
BTW--the original ASCO lockouts (like on the pre-79 55s) were red. The mini-trucks just copied the cruisers.
Dan
- Thread starter
- #66
A nice teaser pic......
IBCRUSN is going to update us on the process.....
Some good, some bad.....
Manageable though I think....
IBCRUSN is going to update us on the process.....
Some good, some bad.....
Manageable though I think....
Nice welding table!
And to both of you guys, a great thread!
thanks for doing this and posting it up here in such detail.
I'm almost certainly going to be doing this mod when I get my new diesel conversion going. I've got a P/T case on my current truck, and I love it.
Dana
And to both of you guys, a great thread!
thanks for doing this and posting it up here in such detail.
I'm almost certainly going to be doing this mod when I get my new diesel conversion going. I've got a P/T case on my current truck, and I love it.
Dana
Okay, here's the good and bad of welding the center diff case.
As I received the case half from Beno
A bearing puller and a socket easily removed the taper bearing and the needle bearing. I would venture to guess with the VC removed the needle bearing doesn't need to be reinstalled.
First, the button. We machined two buttons out of W1 tool steel with the idea that we'd heat treat them. The idea was to make them harder just in case the CTR diff front gear touched it while spinning it wouldn't be an issue with a galled part. This is pre-heat treating. As it worked out they because so hard that even with gentle cooling from 500*F down they both cracked. The new plan is to machine them out of UHMW rod which machines easily and is very tough. That coupled with the gear oil and it should last as long as the truck. Once I'm satisfied with the button I'll post up a generic dwg with dimensions.
Now on to the fun part.
The diff, gear and thrust washer were all heated to 500*F to pre-heat them (see above as for reasoning). I feel for Todd, having to TIG weld above a 500*F chunk of steel with an air cooled torch running at 125 amps. At any rate, he tacked the gear in place and began slowly making his way around the gear to what you see here. Although in the beginning neither one of could understand why Brian at ACC filled the area with material once we were in process it became evident. By the time the gear is fully welded to the case and the holes filled you've filled the cavity. All was good, or so we thought.
We were very surprised by the amount of contamination that came from the gear. All of the contamination and crap in the welds was pulled from the gear. Was this foreshadowing the Toyota gas pedal fiasco?
(My bad for the poor focus, the lighting wasn't stellar where I shot the pics)
Fast forward two hours after we attempted heat treating the buttons, the case had air cooled well enough to handle without gloves. I test fit the cross pin and low an behold the case had warped ever so slightly. I'm confident that it will bolt up fine but it did move. Despite the slow speed at which Todd welded at I think we should have worked the whole process in a two or three stages as we built up a lot of heat in the part, no to mention Todd's right hand. Maybe next time we'll use less than 125 amps in the fill area.
I'll be shipping the case back to Beno so he can test fit the rear case half to the front. In the mean time I have a 2' piece of UHMW rod on the way and we'll make new buttons and ship it to NM by next week.
So what did we learn?
BTW, the gee whiz from one of my earlier posts...the diff gear/output shaft is the same size as an 80 30 spine birf outer. Looks kinda like a flower, I wonder if the wif would like one for her desk at work.
As I received the case half from Beno
A bearing puller and a socket easily removed the taper bearing and the needle bearing. I would venture to guess with the VC removed the needle bearing doesn't need to be reinstalled.
First, the button. We machined two buttons out of W1 tool steel with the idea that we'd heat treat them. The idea was to make them harder just in case the CTR diff front gear touched it while spinning it wouldn't be an issue with a galled part. This is pre-heat treating. As it worked out they because so hard that even with gentle cooling from 500*F down they both cracked. The new plan is to machine them out of UHMW rod which machines easily and is very tough. That coupled with the gear oil and it should last as long as the truck. Once I'm satisfied with the button I'll post up a generic dwg with dimensions.
Now on to the fun part.
The diff, gear and thrust washer were all heated to 500*F to pre-heat them (see above as for reasoning). I feel for Todd, having to TIG weld above a 500*F chunk of steel with an air cooled torch running at 125 amps. At any rate, he tacked the gear in place and began slowly making his way around the gear to what you see here. Although in the beginning neither one of could understand why Brian at ACC filled the area with material once we were in process it became evident. By the time the gear is fully welded to the case and the holes filled you've filled the cavity. All was good, or so we thought.
We were very surprised by the amount of contamination that came from the gear. All of the contamination and crap in the welds was pulled from the gear. Was this foreshadowing the Toyota gas pedal fiasco?
(My bad for the poor focus, the lighting wasn't stellar where I shot the pics)
Fast forward two hours after we attempted heat treating the buttons, the case had air cooled well enough to handle without gloves. I test fit the cross pin and low an behold the case had warped ever so slightly.
I'm confident that it will bolt up fine but it did move. Despite the slow speed at which Todd welded at I think we should have worked the whole process in a two or three stages as we built up a lot of heat in the part, no to mention Todd's right hand. Maybe next time we'll use less than 125 amps in the fill area.
I'll be shipping the case back to Beno so he can test fit the rear case half to the front. In the mean time I have a 2' piece of UHMW rod on the way and we'll make new buttons and ship it to NM by next week.
So what did we learn?
- Use less heat once the gear is burned to the case
- Weld in stages, allow the part to dwell for a period of time
- Hardened buttons are more work than they're worth
- I may have to purchase my spare transfer case from my dad's parts rig to replace Beno's if this doesn't fit spot on.
BTW, the gee whiz from one of my earlier posts...the diff gear/output shaft is the same size as an 80 30 spine birf outer. Looks kinda like a flower, I wonder if the wif would like one for her desk at work.
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Thanks for the hard work boys! But, I'm wondering if maybe would should just do a group buy on the spool kit minus the hubs??
I am not surprised it warped a bit with all the heat put in to the weld. Maybe you can chuck it in a lathe and true it up so you don't have excessive run out.
The side gear is case hardened 8620, which welds pretty well and the contamination comes from the case hardening. You can see it bubbling and fizzing as you weld. Grinding off the case hadening might help, but it probably won't matter as you have a lot of mild steel fill compared to the amount of carbon in the case.
The side gear is case hardened 8620, which welds pretty well and the contamination comes from the case hardening. You can see it bubbling and fizzing as you weld. Grinding off the case hadening might help, but it probably won't matter as you have a lot of mild steel fill compared to the amount of carbon in the case.
- Thread starter
- #71
$390 USD shipped per. I already checked into that before I dove into this.
I like the idea of making this reasonably cheap--if not even free.
- Thread starter
- #72
I am considering this when I get the case back in my hands. I have a local machinist who I think could true up any warping.
Nice pics IBCRUSN and great explanation of the process.....I especially like the birf-bouquet for the
Will post up once I get the case back and once IBCRUSN has taken care of another spacer and off we'll go to see how this works.
Without experiments, no progress will ever be made. That is--in the end--the bottom line of this experiment.
Without experiments, no progress will ever be made. That is--in the end--the bottom line of this experiment.
Nicely said Beno-
I'm going to start on a project that has been on hold for the last 3 years and this mod you have been doing is giving me some ideas. Thanks!
Nicely said Beno-
I'm going to start on a project that has been on hold for the last 3 years and this mod you have been doing is giving me some ideas. Thanks!
denis
(O) toyota nut (O)
for clarification, I did not fill the volume between the gear and case, I only cobbled a couple of parts together to offset the welding toward the center of the case have have as little as possible to fill while having a longer circumferencial weld for strength as can be seen on the thread here (read the text
)
denis
(O) toyota nut (O)
honestly the spacer is just there to keep the gear from walking out when 4WD is not engaged. In 2WD the front gear stays immobile while the carrier turns at (rear) output shaft speed, but there is virtually no force acting on it so its spinning freely. there might be a wear issue at the bearing surfaces though but the front planetary gear being now such a non-critical part I doubt it would matter much. Heck, if it's been good enough down under for years in spite of spinning backwards it should be good enough for us
In a perfect world you could tear the whole tcase apart, machine the front output splines for the planetaty down smooth and fit some kind of bearing somewhere inbetween the diff. case and the front output shaft I guess.
denis
(O) toyota nut (O)
You probably realized that if you remove some material on the carrier face you'll have to compensate for the conical bearings preload upon reassembly by using different shims.
Just thought I'd add it for reference.
for clarification, I did not fill the volume between the gear and case, I only cobbled a couple of parts together to offset the welding toward the center of the case have have as little as possible to fill while having a longer circumferencial weld for strength as can be seen on the thread here (read the text
My bad, I confused your thread and the method Brian & Mike from ACC had performed. It's all about the pictures.
I have an awesome memory but my recall is crap.
- Thread starter
- #78
For those of us with a 4/1994 or later rig, to be able to add manual hubs, we have to machine new c-clip grooves in our longer birfs to compensate.
4/1994 and later: 246.5mm (birf total length)
4/1994 and earlier: 238.5mm (birf total length)
Difference of 8mm.
I bought a "correct" shorter birf. today. This is from a 1991-1992 truck without the ABS rings (I took mine off ages ago). If you go this route and buy two new ones, your ABS rings can be pressed out and re-pressed on your new birfs. This is the expensive route, and since I wanted two extra birfs, I bought an extra new, shorter birf.
Correct part number for the shorter birf: 43405-60120
Both birfields have the same dimensions regarding the top ends of the stubs. Each snap ring groove starts 5mm down from the top and is 3mm in width. Total from the top then is 8mm. Since the longer birfs are 8mm longer, the new snap ring grooves will start 13mm from the top and will be 3mm in width. Simple math, lots of fun.
Anyway, I plan to take the 3 long ones that I have to the machinist tomorrow and have him create new grooves. All should be groovy afterwards.
4/1994 and later: 246.5mm (birf total length)
4/1994 and earlier: 238.5mm (birf total length)
Difference of 8mm.
I bought a "correct" shorter birf. today. This is from a 1991-1992 truck without the ABS rings (I took mine off ages ago). If you go this route and buy two new ones, your ABS rings can be pressed out and re-pressed on your new birfs. This is the expensive route, and since I wanted two extra birfs, I bought an extra new, shorter birf.
Correct part number for the shorter birf: 43405-60120
Both birfields have the same dimensions regarding the top ends of the stubs. Each snap ring groove starts 5mm down from the top and is 3mm in width. Total from the top then is 8mm. Since the longer birfs are 8mm longer, the new snap ring grooves will start 13mm from the top and will be 3mm in width. Simple math, lots of fun.
Anyway, I plan to take the 3 long ones that I have to the machinist tomorrow and have him create new grooves. All should be groovy afterwards.
- Thread starter
- #79
And a couple more....
Looking good guys... Beno, I want those hubs! LOL
