Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters (1 Viewer)

[watrob]

So this is what I see.
- Thick White/Blue wire from alternator to junction box, to white wire, to battery.
- Thin White/Blue wire from battery to brown connector, to Ammeter.
- Black wire with 2 red dots from junction box White wire to brown connector, to Ammeter.
- White wire from junction box to battery is the Fusible Link.

If this is true then this circuit is correct. This is how it should be connected.
View attachment 873783


But if it's not true.......

1. I don't see a grey wire, I see a white wire and my logic tells met that it is connected to the thick White /Blue wire and not to the fat black wire.
2. What connects to what in that junction box?

Rudi

BTW; did you do the ohm test on the Ammeter circuit?

The FL wire you marked and you call as white is actually grey (flash from camera makes it look white)


I measured the AMP meter coil and its not burnt out and moves freely.


All the junction box does is joins the wires together and protect them.


I tried to test the ohms of the coils I made but my multimeter is not all that good, the best I could read was 1.7 no way near .006 ohms.


Also this grey FL well maybe a FL but you can see where the orginal FL was attached to the black wire in the junction box and the small white/blue stripe wire on the battery, they were part of the same pressed eyelets on these two wires but had been cut off or snapped off or just burn't off, so this grey FL was used. I have know way of tell if its the correct one and that the resistance is correct.


It does not matter any way because the coils I tried did not work either, the is no movement in the Amp meter at ALL, no flicker with hazards on.

PS. One other thing, if I was to plug an old type Amp Meter cluster in( that is plug it into the brown plug that's shown in my photo) a cluster that has a 30+ amp meter with the positive & negative post on the back of the cluster and plug it into the brown plug what would happen?

 

[bj40green]

My request:
Disconnect the Ammeter circuit from the FL and check that circuit with the ohm meter for continuity. Do the test at the prongs of the connector so that the whole circuit is measured.
Your answer:
Just got back, first photo fuses.. tested ok, although dust.

My request:
The Volt test at the Ammeter is not sufficient. You have to do an ohm test to test the WHOLE circuit from connector prong to connector prong.

So again...... please do the test and report your reading....... ohm.
Your answer:
I measured the AMP meter coil and its not burnt out and moves freely.

3rd and last time: Disconnect the brown connector and do the test with the ohm meter. Make sure that your ohm meter reads 0 (ZERO) when you hold the test leads to each other. If not..... replace battery or buy a new meter.
You have to test the WHOLE circuit.

It does not matter any way because the coils I tried did not work either, the is no movement in the Amp meter at ALL, no flicker with hazards on.

This means that this circuit does not function at all!

PS. One other thing, if I was to plug an old type Amp Meter cluster in( that is plug it into the brown plug that's shown in my photo) a cluster that has a 30+ amp meter with the positive & negative post on the back of the cluster and plug it into the brown plug what would happen?

A. Nothing, you have to hook up is series with the Fusible Link.
B. I'm not going to explain this. Do you want to set your truck on fire?

Rudi

 

[watrob]

I am not up at the beach house for another week (that's where the FJ is) so to be able to check the ohms etc, but I will get another multimeter before I go back up.


Going to finish off rebuilding the 12HT this weekend.

 

[bj40green]

All the junction box does is joins the wires together and protect them.

So all 4 wires are connected to each other. Right?
Where is that blue wire connected to? The battery?

Rudi

 

[watrob]

The junction box is just that, as these wire are live (12 volts). There is no cross connection of wires, just straight thru.


The blue FL (which is connected to the large black wire via the junction box), this blue FL connects to the battery.


The grey FL (which is connected to the large white/blue stripe wire via the junction box), this grey FL connects to the battery.


There is a long black FL which connects to the battery.


And the last is the small white/blue stripe wire from the brown amp meter plug connects to the battery.


( and of coarse the large starter motor cable)


In theory all these wire are interconnected at the + battery terminal.


I have asked my father-inlaw whom is a electronic engineer who has a high standard multimeter that will register from 0.00 to 0.5 ohms. As the coil must register .006 of 1 ohm. That's a very small amount .006 of an ohm?

 

[bj40green]

I've put your text in this picture. Is this correct?

You can't measure 0.006 ohm (6/1000 ohm) with a ohm tester even when it's super sensitive. You can do that only with a "Wheatstone bridge". That is a very special way with 3 known resistors to analyse the fourth (in this case your 0.006 ohm coil) resistor. I'm pretty sure that your F.I.L. knows about this but not owns one. It's laboratory equipment.

In the meantime a little remark from my side.
Those fusible Links in your pic don't look as 2 AWG sizes bigger (=wire sizes smaller) than the wires they have to protect.

In your case there should be a Black, Red and a Purple one as per this diagram.

Black stands for 1.25 mm2 = AWG16
Red stands for .05 mm2 = AWG20
Purple stands for 0.3 mm2 = AWG22

So, we'll wait to see what the Ammeter test result is.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

I've put your text in this picture. Is this correct?
View attachment 874053

You can't measure 0.006 ohm (6/1000 ohm) with a ohm tester even when it's super sensitive. You can do that only with a "Wheatstone bridge". That is a very special way with 3 known resistors to analyse the fourth (in this case your 0.006 ohm coil) resistor. I'm pretty sure that your F.I.L. knows about this but not owns one. It's laboratory equipment.

In the meantime a little remark from my side.
Those fusible Links in your pic don't look as 2 AWG sizes bigger (=wire sizes smaller) than the wires they have to protect.
View attachment 874058

In your case there should be a Black, Red and a Purple one as per this diagram.
View attachment 874059

Black stands for 1.25 mm2 = AWG16
Red stands for .05 mm2 = AWG20
Purple stands for 0.3 mm2 = AWG22

So, we'll wait to see what the Ammeter test result is.

Rudi

Don't think that diagram relates to my wiring loom. If I remember mine came out of a hj45 which had a factory 2h,


The wiring loom is not butchered but if the red FL was replaced by the grey FL could be possible as I mentioned I my previous reply there are eyelets on the grey FL that I would say had the white/blue stripe & black wires going to a plug for the amp meter which probably came of a different version of a 40 series. Would a petrol version use a grey FL, some version of the 40 series did?

 

[bj40green]

Don't think that diagram relates to my wiring loom. If I remember mine came out of a hj45 which had a factory 2h,


The wiring loom is not butchered but if the red FL was replaced by the grey FL could be possible as I mentioned I my previous reply there are eyelets on the grey FL that I would say had the white/blue stripe & black wires going to a plug for the amp meter which probably came of a different version of a 40 series. Would a petrol version use a grey FL, some version of the 40 series did?

I don't know which colors came with what engines. I can only follow the diagrams.
If those colors came with the harness.... fine with me, as long as you have a good feeling about it.

Rudi

 

[Coolerman]

Just read through this entire thread, with focus on the Amp Meter discussion. Excellent detective work on the part of Drew, Rudi and Tom.

My first question is for Drew: Referring to Page 16: Has your 18" coil replacement for the fusible link continued to function? Reason I ask, I rebuild those fusible links with the OEM 3-4" length of 2mm fusible link wire, but if your version works better I may start rebuilding them with 18" of fusible link wire so that more folks can enjoy functioning Amp Meters.

My second question is also for Drew: What caused your short in the dash light circuit (RB wire)? What size fuse was installed for that circuit? If it was the correct size I wonder why didn't it blow?

 

[dopypuppy]

I'm in the middle of rebuilding a few dash clusters and have one sandblasted and paired ready for one of biscuit's kits when he went out of production.
I am planing on building my own markings and was hoping someone could have an electronic copy of the markings.
Km per hour prefered , but I'll take anything just as it would be better the re-creating the wheel.

 

[bj40green]

You have mail.

Rudi

 

[ozcrusier]

Hi
I have 4 speedo's that need dating to be returned to the right year trucks. The 1st I think came from a 1980 hj45 cruiser and the rest I have no idea what years there from. There two photo's of each with the face and then the rear.
Two 50 amp

 

[ozcrusier]

The last two 30 amp

 

[bj40green]

Hi
I have 4 speedo's that need dating to be returned to the right year trucks. The 1st I think came from a 1980 hj45 cruiser and the rest I have no idea what years there from. There two photo's of each with the face and then the rear.
Two 50 amp

Hi Oz, I'll do my best but my dating is based on pictures that I collected over the years but I'll give it a shot.
I can't match them with a model because the cluster were not model related but market related.

jpg 1&2: KM speedo, 6 digit odo, 50 amp, international symbols/no text makes it a 9/83 and later
jpg 3&4: KM speedo, 5 digit odo, 50 amp, text makes it a 9/73 till 12/79

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

The last two 30 amp

Same story as above.....

jpg 5&6: KM speedo, 5 digit odo, 30 amp, text, VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) on the back, makes it a 9/73 till 12/79
The VSS was used for emissions control on gasoline engines or for a speed warning buzzer on some (Japanese?) models.

jpg 7&8: KM speedo, 5 digit odo, 30 amp, text, makes it a 9/73 till 12/79

Note: they all appear to be 12V clusters. If you see a big resistor below the OIL gauge (your pictures don't show that), it will mean that it's a 24V cluster which was only used on Diesels.

Rudi

 

[ozcrusier]

Thanks for the help with the clusters at least I have a idea of what years there from in case somebody needs one.
Cheers

 

[Hiccup]

Rudi,
I pulled my cluster ('77 3rd generation) searching for the cause of my lack of pilot meter lights. I disconnected the battery first. Then I re connected it to test the barrel connector. Wasn't getting power on my red black wire. While the battery was connected I touched my test lights to the white and blue wire, and the white shire that supplies power to the ammeter. Test light lit up on both wires. Is this correct? I thought that only the wire that was connected to the + on the cluster would light. I verified that all cluster lights were in working order by running a jumper to the battery. Seemed to me the problem was in the light switch. When I pulled that I lost all power. To the fuse box and now only the white wire was lighting the test light. Once I connected both wires to their respective places got I got all my power back. I see on the schematic that the blue and white wire goes to the alternator. I found in the light switch that the one post was not in the proper place in the connector. Once I fixed that I had my dash lights and heater lights. Dimmer works fine. It was to light to see if the cluster lights worked but I imagine they did. Drove the rig for about a half hour. Almost didn't start. Seems the alternator isn't charging the battery. Black and white wire on the alternator was off. Squeezed it tight but seems the battery still isn't getting charged. Sorry for the length. Any thoughts you could provide would be welcome. Thanks Steve

 

[bj40green]

Hi Steve,
Where do we start? I assume that you have the stock 30Amp alternator.
To get confusion on the wire colors out of the way..... we're talking solid color/stripe color so White/Black or White (no stripe). L stands for Light Blue so White/Blue (W/L) means White/Blue stripe. Having said that....
The White (W) wire goes to the + Ammeter and the White/Blue (W/L) goes to the - Ammeter.
When charging the Ammeter should go positive. If no charging the Ammeter stays at 0 but as soon as there is a discharge (ignition, headlights, blinkers whatever) the Ammeter should go negative.
You mentioned a "Black and White wire on the alternator...." I think you meant the White/Black wire. Right?
This wire is not important but is necessary for correct functioning of the Voltage Regulator. This wire equalize possible voltage differences between alternator ground and body ground.

Check your "Engine Fuse" first. Use your test light. The light should come up on both sides of the fuse.
If not..... replace the fuse.
If that works.... check for voltage on the IG terminal (Red/Yellow) on the Voltage Regulator with the key in the "on" position. This Red/Yellow wire is not mentioned in this part of the diagram. It merges somewhere with the Black/Yellow from the maintenance detector if you have that. You should see the Red/Yellow, White/Black and White/Green on the 3 prong connector close to the Voltage Regulator which is on the Firewall just below the Master Brake Cylinder.
If that's OK, check for voltage on the F terminals (White/Green wire) on the Alternator and Voltage Regulator with the key in the "on" position.
If that's OK, it's time to check the output voltage of the alternator, White/Blue wire. For this you need a voltmeter.
With the engine "off" the voltage on the alternator should be the same as on the + stud on the battery.
If there's no voltage on the alternator, you have a wiring problem. In the diagram it looks like the WL wire goes from the cluster to alternator and from there to the ignition switch.
In reality the wire from the alternator splices behind the cluster. One to the Ammeter and one to the ignition key.

Let us/me know what you have and/or have not and we take it from there.

Rudi

 

[Hiccup]

Thanks Rudi. Engine fuse is good. My voltage regulator is for some reason next to my igniter. Maybe moved by a PO which might also explain why I don't have a red/yellow wire. My connector at the VR has GY, GR, and GW. Voltage with key in on position is GY nothing, GR 12V, GW 0.078 which is the same as the white/green wire on the field of the alt. Voltage at POS battery terminal is 12.48 (after being on charger) and the same at White/Blue on Alt.

I used my winch the other day and wonder if this could have killed my battery? I will have it checked today. Thank you for your help!

Took the wifey to Costa Rica for the honeymoon to a place called Lapa Rios. Awesome place, can't wait to get back there!

 

[Hiccup]

Thanks Rudi. Engine fuse is good. My voltage regulator is for some reason next to my igniter. Maybe moved by a PO which might also explain why I don't have a red/yellow wire. My connector at the VR has GY, GR, and GW. Voltage with key in on position is GY nothing, GR 12V, GW 0.078 which is the same as the white/green wire on the field of the alt. Voltage at POS battery terminal is 12.48 (after being on charger) and the same at White/Blue on Alt.

I used my winch the other day and wonder if this could have killed my battery? I will have it checked today. Thank you for your help!

Took the wifey to Costa Rica for the honeymoon to a place called Lapa Rios. Awesome place, can't wait to get back there!