Builds Chicago builds a 40
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- #122
I was looking at the STAK from AA. Is that sort of the best of BOTH worlds if you were going to ONLY do ONE t case?
I just went out and measured the 2 drive trains (GORILLA MATH HERE)...stock 40 (minus the e brake drum total length was 63 in.
The whole shootin match of the Vortec (minus the mech fan), 4L60E, adapters etc was 75.5. A 12 to 13 in diff. in length.
In the current SUA set up that would leave me about a 6 in drive shaft (give or take an inch). SOOOO, theoretically speaking, for me to be able to run the PLANNED set up I would need to move the axle back and the motor set up a total of....lets say 15 in either way.
Would the SOA give me any added length to the shaft? I had done some very approximate measuring and if I moved the whole spring pack back so the hanger was off the bumper/ x member that would be around 7-8 in there.
I think it'll fit, but it WILL BE TIGHT, and Ill have to get creative.
K
I just went out and measured the 2 drive trains (GORILLA MATH HERE)...stock 40 (minus the e brake drum total length was 63 in.
The whole shootin match of the Vortec (minus the mech fan), 4L60E, adapters etc was 75.5. A 12 to 13 in diff. in length.
In the current SUA set up that would leave me about a 6 in drive shaft (give or take an inch). SOOOO, theoretically speaking, for me to be able to run the PLANNED set up I would need to move the axle back and the motor set up a total of....lets say 15 in either way.
Would the SOA give me any added length to the shaft? I had done some very approximate measuring and if I moved the whole spring pack back so the hanger was off the bumper/ x member that would be around 7-8 in there.
I think it'll fit, but it WILL BE TIGHT, and Ill have to get creative.
K
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- #123
What's that mean?
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- #124
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Does that include the amount you will move the engine forward when you mount the V8?
My rear drive shaft isn't very happy and I have a very short drivetrain and a fairly long wheelbase. F/SM420/atlas clocked flat 103" wheelbase. I need to invest in an expensive CV, not looking forward to it.
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- #128
- Thread starter
- #129
No.
However, there is about 3 in from the front of the 2F pulley to the face of the radiator. So I wont have much gain there either way. I measured both way off the vortec with the mech fan, and w/o.
It CAN work! Ill have to get creative w/ springs and such, but it can work.
There is also the option of chopping the rear frame and tub to accommodate stretching the WB. Im NOT opposed to that. Frankly, I would do that before I spend THOUSANDS more and prolong the down time to save up for the BLING stuff.
I suppose at this point, Ill just have to get the motor set and placed in the rig, then massage what I need for the rear shaft length.
do some research on pirate, iirc there are a ton of people that have had problems with those and with their customer service....you can't go wrong with an atlas
I ran my long ass drivetrain in my 40 on leaves. It can easily be done amigo.
The reason you keep hearing "do it once" is because in the end, it will cost significantly more in the long run to get where you want to go. Trust me, I am a cheap ass bastard, I HATE spending the coin.. But it is necessary sometimes to get what you need done.
The reason you keep hearing "do it once" is because in the end, it will cost significantly more in the long run to get where you want to go. Trust me, I am a cheap ass bastard, I HATE spending the coin.. But it is necessary sometimes to get what you need done.
Concur with the do it once. I was hesitant to spend the money on a proper rear axle for my needs, and committed to an Orion - I was already running FI, DUI, and an SM420 with a 4-speed case and 2.31 gears and pushing the limits of a stock axle. After mucho rear axle failures (including chromo shafts) - am now stuck having to find an offset solution - and will also have less clearance for my future 4-link.
If I had it to do over - I'd have gone with the Atlas and a hybrid mini or Dana 60.
I think you're a step ahead if you have funds for a v8 and an auto...
If I had it to do over - I'd have gone with the Atlas and a hybrid mini or Dana 60.
I think you're a step ahead if you have funds for a v8 and an auto...
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- #133
OKAY...this is not directed at anyone specific especially you Mace, and Im not trying to put anybody "off" by the following. Id just like to clarify where Im at with this build.
I know, and trust me I DO UNDERSTAND that "do it once" concept, however just like on my 62, there were things that I simply could not afford to do while it was the optimal time (when completely disassembled). I am running into the same situation here.
STILL a lot of money to spend to get it up and running and at least up to a point where the Blotch rig is at (only BETTER) and also without cutting major corners with safety and reliability.
It seems that every "do it once" idea also equates to literally THOUSANDS more dollars which takes me a LOOOONG TIME to save. The longer Im saving, the longer Im NOT WHEELING (which is ultimately the point, right). Now, with the above being taken into consideration is it better run with a decent set up that is ultimately NOT A BAD set up by any means (barring its INCONVENIENT LENGTH) and be able to wheel and change as necessary, OR put it on ice for what could actually be a year or two additionally before I can pay for the bling mods, NOT wheeling the whole time?
IMO, and my goal is to get her up, running and wheeling with what I have and upgrade as the need and funds arise. Now, that is not to say that Im opposed to spending a few hundred additional if it will be a bit easier or better with some tweaking AND will also work with what I have. That's fine. But, I DO still have more than a grand to spend JUST to get the rig running BEFORE I do anything else (SOA, shocks, brake lines, drive shafts etc.).
So to summarize....I do hear and understand what it is you gents are saying when you say "do it once". Im not ignoring the suggestions or not considering them. However, I CAN NOT do it all at once, and FOR ME...I think its a better option IF I CAN, to get the rig up and running and wheeling with the gear I have that is bought and paid for (barring the not too expensive ideas that may be easier and better), and comfortably save for BIG MONEY components later as I see the need.
Now, seriously...is there anything (besides the length) about the motor, trans and dual case set up that I have that is inherently flawed and Im not seeing? Is it a really BAD set up?
I know that the length is a big factor in a rig this short, but am I really heading for failure with it in this rig? If so, please let me know. Because Im not seeing the issue as such a big deal because I have the idea that I can cut the tub and frame PRN to get the DS to more of a comfortable length.
Thanks,
Keith
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
We need toOKAY...this is not directed at anyone specific especially you Mace, and Im not trying to put anybody "off" by the following. Id just like to clarify where Im at with this build.
I know, and trust me I DO UNDERSTAND that "do it once" concept, however just like on my 62, there were things that I simply could not afford to do while it was the optimal time (when completely disassembled). I am running into the same situation here.
STILL a lot of money to spend to get it up and running and at least up to a point where the Blotch rig is at (only BETTER) and also without cutting major corners with safety and reliability.
It seems that every "do it once" idea also equates to literally THOUSANDS more dollars which takes me a LOOOONG TIME to save. The longer Im saving, the longer Im NOT WHEELING (which is ultimately the point, right). Now, with the above being taken into consideration is it better run with a decent set up that is ultimately NOT A BAD set up by any means (barring its INCONVENIENT LENGTH) and be able to wheel and change as necessary, OR put it on ice for what could actually be a year or two additionally before I can pay for the bling mods, NOT wheeling the whole time?
IMO, and my goal is to get her up, running and wheeling with what I have and upgrade as the need and funds arise. Now, that is not to say that Im opposed to spending a few hundred additional if it will be a bit easier or better with some tweaking AND will also work with what I have. That's fine. But, I DO still have more than a grand to spend JUST to get the rig running BEFORE I do anything else (SOA, shocks, brake lines, drive shafts etc.).
So to summarize....I do hear and understand what it is you gents are saying when you say "do it once". Im not ignoring the suggestions or not considering them. However, I CAN NOT do it all at once, and FOR ME...I think its a better option IF I CAN, to get the rig up and running and wheeling with the gear I have that is bought and paid for (barring the not too expensive ideas that may be easier and better), and comfortably save for BIG MONEY components later as I see the need.
Now, seriously...is there anything (besides the length) about the motor, trans and dual case set up that I have that is inherently flawed and Im not seeing? Is it a really BAD set up?
I know that the length is a big factor in a rig this short, but am I really heading for failure with it in this rig? If so, please let me know. Because Im not seeing the issue as such a big deal because I have the idea that I can cut the tub and frame PRN to get the DS to more of a comfortable length.
Thanks,
Keith
and talk.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
K-
I think your set-up is nearly ideal. Nice deep gears, heavy duty components etc. I'm just not sure it's the right one for an FJ40. Can you assemble your whole combination with adapters and drop it onto your frame just to see how it looks, and to make sure it fits before you start. You don't want to end up with your rear axle in a trailer to get enough rear driveline length. I certainly can't tell you if it will work or not, but I have driven a 40 for 10 years and they are short. Measure twice, weld once.
Check out this picture:
Photo from Jack Rice's excellent pic collection from his build.
This is essentially your set up length wise, except it's much SHORTER because of the SM465 where you would have an auto transmission.
Good luck, I'm looking forward to watching it come together.
edit-the 4l60e is 22 inches long, 10 inches longer than the SM465, and almost 12 inches longer than SM420, just sayin'
I'm a big fan of the SM420/SM465. Cheap, strong and short. Using one of them, the rest of it might just work.
I think your set-up is nearly ideal. Nice deep gears, heavy duty components etc. I'm just not sure it's the right one for an FJ40. Can you assemble your whole combination with adapters and drop it onto your frame just to see how it looks, and to make sure it fits before you start. You don't want to end up with your rear axle in a trailer to get enough rear driveline length. I certainly can't tell you if it will work or not, but I have driven a 40 for 10 years and they are short. Measure twice, weld once.
Check out this picture:
Photo from Jack Rice's excellent pic collection from his build.
This is essentially your set up length wise, except it's much SHORTER because of the SM465 where you would have an auto transmission.
Good luck, I'm looking forward to watching it come together.
edit-the 4l60e is 22 inches long, 10 inches longer than the SM465, and almost 12 inches longer than SM420, just sayin'
I'm a big fan of the SM420/SM465. Cheap, strong and short. Using one of them, the rest of it might just work.
Last edited:
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- #136
Right!
that is all Im trying to do as well. Just see where its going to end up with some massaging. If it is something that is within reasonable grasp for me to accomplish without spending gobs more on, then Ill do it.
With the 4L60E to the 203 I was able to save some of the length by using the 6 to 4 bolt adapter. That 22 in I came up with was with the adapter in place and it replaces the stock tail housing. Then comes the 1in 700R adapter. Mounted flush to that is the 203 gear box (5.75 in) then the split case adapter which IIRC is 1.5 in thick and it too mates flush on both sides. Then the 19 spline split case which is 16.5 in long flange to flange. 46 3/4in long.
Here are a couple of pics of the trans and 203 mocked up.
Im not saying that it isnt a concern. Its long! However, its close to the point that it can work with some effort.
What is a stock rear 40 DS length? around 21 or 22 in flange to flange. I read somewhere that id want at least an 18 in drive shaft....So with the stock suspension set up that is in there, and roughly measuring and comparing that with the "new" drive train Im roughly 13 in from that 18 in DS length.
BUT... this is all theoretical until I can get it assembled and mocked into the rig.
Ill be pulling the tub and drive train soon. Then Ill clean the frame, stick the tub back on and mock up the motor set up. once Im happy with its position Ill then pull the tub again, free the rear end and get to work in seeing if it will all fit reasonably. In my estimation if I can make it work with the suspension spring under, that will give me an inch or two added length spring over.
It seems odd that the whole success of the set up hinges on ONE DRIVE SHAFT.
Keith
that is all Im trying to do as well. Just see where its going to end up with some massaging. If it is something that is within reasonable grasp for me to accomplish without spending gobs more on, then Ill do it.
With the 4L60E to the 203 I was able to save some of the length by using the 6 to 4 bolt adapter. That 22 in I came up with was with the adapter in place and it replaces the stock tail housing. Then comes the 1in 700R adapter. Mounted flush to that is the 203 gear box (5.75 in) then the split case adapter which IIRC is 1.5 in thick and it too mates flush on both sides. Then the 19 spline split case which is 16.5 in long flange to flange. 46 3/4in long.
Here are a couple of pics of the trans and 203 mocked up.
Im not saying that it isnt a concern. Its long! However, its close to the point that it can work with some effort.
What is a stock rear 40 DS length? around 21 or 22 in flange to flange. I read somewhere that id want at least an 18 in drive shaft....So with the stock suspension set up that is in there, and roughly measuring and comparing that with the "new" drive train Im roughly 13 in from that 18 in DS length.
BUT... this is all theoretical until I can get it assembled and mocked into the rig.
Ill be pulling the tub and drive train soon. Then Ill clean the frame, stick the tub back on and mock up the motor set up. once Im happy with its position Ill then pull the tub again, free the rear end and get to work in seeing if it will all fit reasonably. In my estimation if I can make it work with the suspension spring under, that will give me an inch or two added length spring over.
It seems odd that the whole success of the set up hinges on ONE DRIVE SHAFT.
Keith
- Thread starter
- #137
K-
I think your set-up is nearly ideal. Nice deep gears, heavy duty components etc. I'm just not sure it's the right one for an FJ40. Can you assemble your whole combination with adapters and drop it onto your frame just to see how it looks, and to make sure it fits before you start. You don't want to end up with your rear axle in a trailer to get enough rear driveline length. I certainly can't tell you if it will work or not, but I have driven a 40 for 10 years and they are short. Measure twice, weld once.
Check out this picture:
Photo from Jack Rice's excellent pic collection from his build.
This is essentially your set up length wise, except it's much SHORTER because of the SM465 where you would have an auto transmission.
Good luck, I'm looking forward to watching it come together.
edit-the 4l60e is 22 inches long, 10 inches longer than the SM465, and almost 12 inches longer than SM420, just sayin'
I'm a big fan of the SM420/SM465. Cheap, strong and short. Using one of them, the rest of it might just work.
Looks like he had to splice his frame?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
On your rear drive shaft, the longer the better to lessen the angles.
You will almost certainly end up with a double cardan rear shaft anyway, and the double cardan joint itself is like 4 times longer than a standard U joint, so that takes even more length.
I have seen some coil-over linked set ups that put the axle under the tail gate. Maybe with something like that?
Could you use the FJ62's frame chop off the rear overhang, and extend the tub of the 40?
You will almost certainly end up with a double cardan rear shaft anyway, and the double cardan joint itself is like 4 times longer than a standard U joint, so that takes even more length.
I have seen some coil-over linked set ups that put the axle under the tail gate. Maybe with something like that?
Could you use the FJ62's frame chop off the rear overhang, and extend the tub of the 40?
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- #139
Wouldnt it just be easier to chop the 40 tub and frame and lengthen it?
Ill definitely need a DC rear shaft.
Keith...just go get that 2nd mortgage and be done with it. You won't regret it until much later 
