Builds Chicago builds a 40 (1 Viewer)

[Mace]

I hear where you are coming from amigo. Just look at how much you will end up spending with your current components, take that cost and compare it to a atlas, If you were to sell the stuff that you currently have to offset the difference.

I wish I was there to sit at a sushi bar and go over options with you...

BTW, I went and measured the dual mini tcases in my 40. 39" from the engine to the output shaft.
That includes; bellhousing, sm420, adapter, minitcase, adapter, minitcase. behind a 2F, it is Loong.. And doable with leaves. ( I did it with FJ55 rear springs)

Bob with the AOD/203/splittcase is 43 or 44" from the BH to the rear output.

The 40's WB is ~ 106 or so. Bob's is too, here is a pic of the rear DS and suspension of bob. (no binding issues what so ever..)

 

[Mace]

BTW, I owed you a pic of the front, two piece driveshaft I have in Bob.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

You know, I have 76 frame in my back yard I am not using. If you want it to chop out pieces and extend your frame you can have it. I would be honored to have it go in your epic project. It is not really that rusty (less than the one you have) and might in the end, be useful to you. It still has the spring hangers, body mounts and stuff like that. You could even use it to mock up the drivetrain. Anyway, if you want it, just let me know.

I otherwise plan to cut it up and toss it.

 

[Mikesta]

Chicago... you could 4-link it Move your axle back a foot and you'd have more drive line. Just saying. I know you have the deep pockets and all.

 

[chicago]

Thanks boys.
I talked BRIEFLY with RustyTLC yesterday while I was working on my daughters 95 4runner (which I was really surprised to find out that it was a REAL PITA to work on).
He brought up some good points. Id like some additional opinions on this.
If I stretch the tub and frame, Ill be screwing myself for MINOR things like a kit roll cage and full soft tops etc. I can live with that, but....
Now, I have about 1500 into the 4L60E after the re build, then another 450 or so in the adapter and VSS/ reluctor. IMO Ill have a hard time trying to get back what I have into it BECAUSE the market sucks, annnnnnd I also had a 700R output shaft which also narrows the market to basically 4 wheelers ONLY who are doing Vortec conversions. ILL LOSE MONEY unless I hang tough on the price. Im considering trying to sell it and see what happens.
So, with that in mind (im asking for honest opinions here) should I sell the set up and is it worth taking the loss to switch gears on the build and go with an SM465/420? Id like to try and find a way to run the 203/ split case for the time being at least.
The next option is to just go ahead and 4 link the rear end (as Mike, Mace and Rusty suggested) which I know NOTHING about, so Ill have to do some research on how to do that and what it all means. It seems that may be the BEST way to get the DS length that Ill need comfortably.
My WB as she sits right now is 88.5 in (which I thought they were a bit longer). 104 in wb would put the center of the axel just behind the wheel well about 2in into the quarter panel.

What would you guyz do in my situation given the circumstance.
I was planning on selling the Blotch rig, but it seems that THIS build may take a LOT LONGER than I expected, and I DO NOT wanna be without a wheeler for that long.

Thanks for the help...Im in reality with you all now!
Thanks for hangin in there with me.

Keith

 

[Cruiserdrew]

So if you are willing to go with an SM465 get one with the 10 spline output. You will also need the 465 to 203 factory adapter. These are a little uncommon and were used only in 1974 by GM (possibly a few 73s and 75s). Keep a look out for one of these. I have this stuff, but I'm saving it for a future project. You can come down to my house and fondle the adapter if you like. I really like the 203 box and am looking for a recepient.

You will also need a new input gear for the 203-available for about $150 from Northwest.


OR...The SM465 could be adapted directly with a plate adapter to the Orion. See Treeroot's write up. This in my opinion would be your best and least expensive option, even if you do take a bit of a loss on the 4L60e.

If you went that route, your life would get pretty easy. Extend the WB with some wagon springs and call the suspension done. That would also avoid a ton of work/expense reworking the rear, and you could easily get this done in a few months.

I have heard from Luke of a mythical Reno wrecking yard with tons of GM trucks with minimal rust and parts in very good condition. They might have all the stuff you need.

 

[Mikesta]

Yes, I've heard that FJ55 Springs, reversed give you about 6" more wheelbase. That would be the cheapest way to move your axle back. Then when you want to do your Link you could easily do it in a stage approach.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I'd think the transmission mod would INCREASE the re-sale value. You would just need to market it in places like Pirate and the local Rock Crawler forums. Remember since it's not Toyota specific there is a big market out there. And I would think the drive train you have is a common set up for buggies. You might take a hit on it but long term it may wind up being cheaper to sell what you have and start over buying stuff. You can always put a pencil to it and figure out how much you need to sell the stuff for then throw it out there and see what happens.

Don't get me wrong I think it would be very cool to complete the project with what you have. But I'd also like to see you in a SWB trail rig before I get to senile to wheel with you.

 

[chicago]

So if you are willing to go with an SM465 get one with the 10 spline output. You will also need the 465 to 203 factory adapter. These are a little uncommon and were used only in 1974 by GM (possibly a few 73s and 75s). Keep a look out for one of these. I have this stuff, but I'm saving it for a future project. You can come down to my house and fondle the adapter if you like. I really like the 203 box and am looking for a recepient.

You will also need a new input gear for the 203-available for about $150 from Northwest.


OR...The SM465 could be adapted directly with a plate adapter to the Orion. See Treeroot's write up. This in my opinion would be your best and least expensive option, even if you do take a bit of a loss on the 4L60e.

If you went that route, your life would get pretty easy. Extend the WB with some wagon springs and call the suspension done. That would also avoid a ton of work/expense reworking the rear, and you could easily get this done in a few months.

I have heard from Luke of a mythical Reno wrecking yard with tons of GM trucks with minimal rust and parts in very good condition. They might have all the stuff you need.

Alright...Ill throw the set up around and see what I can scrounge up. Ill need help setting up the manual too, so look forward to the questions on that when the time comes.
Just off the top of my head, does anyone know HOW the manual works with the Vortec computer, or what needs to be done to run that in lieu of the elec. trans?
The adapter for the BH is about 600 bucks to run the manual, so I can only assume that it HAS worked for others. What else will I need to run this thing? I read something about a slave cylinder...
I know NOTHING about manuals at this point in time.
There is a wrecking yard with some old chevy trucks. That is where I got the sag box and 63in springs from. They also had a wagonneer there with the rear springs on it....
What years am I looking for to get the SM465 out of? So there IS an adapter that will mate the 465 to the 203? What is northwestern?

Thanks for the info gents!

keith

 

[chicago]

I'd think the transmission mod would INCREASE the re-sale value. You would just need to market it in places like Pirate and the local Rock Crawler forums. Remember since it's not Toyota specific there is a big market out there. And I would think the drive train you have is a common set up for buggies. You might take a hit on it but long term it may wind up being cheaper to sell what you have and start over buying stuff. You can always put a pencil to it and figure out how much you need to sell the stuff for then throw it out there and see what happens.

Don't get me wrong I think it would be very cool to complete the project with what you have. But I'd also like to see you in a SWB trail rig before I get to senile to wheel with you.

TOO LATE!

 

[chicago]

Yes, I've heard that FJ55 Springs, reversed give you about 6" more wheelbase. That would be the cheapest way to move your axle back. Then when you want to do your Link you could easily do it in a stage approach.

That is JUST how I think about the "big dreams" that I have for my rigs!
Im a VERY CONSERVATIVE individual, and I DO NOT use a credit card to pay for this hobby. That is why Im so stubborn with some of these things.

can you say CHEAP A$$ MO FO! If it were in the dictionary, my picture would be there!

K

 

[Cruiserdrew]

TOO LATE!

yep.


SM465 69-92ish are all basicically the same. The 10 spline was only available into the mid 80s in 4wd applications, After that, 4wd went to a 32 spline long output version that is NOT desirable for what you want. Most of the SM465s you see are 35 spline, 2 wheel drive outputs. That's what Chevy pick ups with 2 wheel drive got. Since you'll probably rebuild any tranny you start with, you can put a 10 spline shaft in a 35 spline tranny. SM465s usually go for around $100. The 10 spline ones go for a bit more. Be careful when buying these as most of the 10 spline outputs are trashed and need to be replaced anyway.

This is (IMHO) the best tranny GM made for the Land Cruiser.

Just an aside-I was going to put a 465/203/split case in my FJ60, and have a lot of the parts, but then at the 11th hour, I got a Marlin Toybox. My Sm465 is an 82 I think and has a 35 spline output. Frizzlefry gave me a 10 spline mainshaft but I have not rebuilt that tranny yet. The gears inside are huge, with huge support bearings. It's a very nice old fashioned transmission. Kind of like an SM420, only better if that's possible.

The GM Muncie SM465 Transmission - Novak Conversions

Up until 89 or 90 they had a cast iron top cover. I think that's just bad ass. These things are heavy, and heavy duty. They did not skimp on the metal at all-they weigh 175 pounds! They came mostly in GM pickups, but also came in GM trucks and buses up to 2.5 tons. There is a guy here on ih8mud with one in his dump truck. The first gear is 6.55:1 so there is most of the gearing needed to crawl right there. Coupled with a 4:1 Orion you are in the zone for sure. Check out this excellent link:

2F SM465/Orion Install

As mentioned, there is a FACTORY adapter for SM465 to NP203. They are not common. 74 Blazer was the primary use as I recall. that adapter is steel not aluminum, weights 25 pounds or so and is a nice match for the robustness of the SM465. You would need the 10 spline input gear from the factory or Northwest Fab .

NorthWest FabWorks - Products - Transfer Case Input Gears

One last cool thing that influenced my thinking about the 465, is that if you do decide to run an Atlas, AA has an adapter to run the common 35 spline version directly to Atlas. Or Novaks has a new shaft and even nicer adapter to also run an Atlas, although they call it a Dana 300.

 

[handcannon]

Im a VERY CONSERVATIVE individual, and I DO NOT use a credit card to pay for this hobby. That is why Im so stubborn with some of these things.

K

Smart man!!!! The ONLY way to be.

 

[spressomon]

That is JUST how I think about the "big dreams" that I have for my rigs!
Im a VERY CONSERVATIVE individual, and I DO NOT use a credit card to pay for this hobby. That is why Im so stubborn with some of these things.

can you say CHEAP A$$ MO FO! If it were in the dictionary, my picture would be there!

K

So you didn't like my idea about a first/second/third mortgage to finance your dealio eh?

I's just trying to help

 

[OGBeno]

your epic project.

Epic indeed....

Full-on Awesome-o-city Keith!!

I can't wait to see you wheel this man.



-o-

 

[rusty_tlc]

TOO LATE!

Why you whipper snapper I otta.

Hey is that rice pudding?

 

[chicago]

yep.


SM465 69-92ish are all basicically the same. The 10 spline was only available into the mid 80s in 4wd applications, After that, 4wd went to a 32 spline long output version that is NOT desirable for what you want. Most of the SM465s you see are 35 spline, 2 wheel drive outputs. That's what Chevy pick ups with 2 wheel drive got. Since you'll probably rebuild any tranny you start with, you can put a 10 spline shaft in a 35 spline tranny. SM465s usually go for around $100. The 10 spline ones go for a bit more. Be careful when buying these as most of the 10 spline outputs are trashed and need to be replaced anyway.

This is (IMHO) the best tranny GM made for the Land Cruiser.

Just an aside-I was going to put a 465/203/split case in my FJ60, and have a lot of the parts, but then at the 11th hour, I got a Marlin Toybox. My Sm465 is an 82 I think and has a 35 spline output. Frizzlefry gave me a 10 spline mainshaft but I have not rebuilt that tranny yet. The gears inside are huge, with huge support bearings. It's a very nice old fashioned transmission. Kind of like an SM420, only better if that's possible.

The GM Muncie SM465 Transmission - Novak Conversions

Up until 89 or 90 they had a cast iron top cover. I think that's just bad ass. These things are heavy, and heavy duty. They did not skimp on the metal at all-they weigh 175 pounds! They came mostly in GM pickups, but also came in GM trucks and buses up to 2.5 tons. There is a guy here on ih8mud with one in his dump truck. The first gear is 6.55:1 so there is most of the gearing needed to crawl right there. Coupled with a 4:1 Orion you are in the zone for sure. Check out this excellent link:

2F SM465/Orion Install

As mentioned, there is a FACTORY adapter for SM465 to NP203. They are not common. 74 Blazer was the primary use as I recall. that adapter is steel not aluminum, weights 25 pounds or so and is a nice match for the robustness of the SM465. You would need the 10 spline input gear from the factory or Northwest Fab .

NorthWest FabWorks - Products - Transfer Case Input Gears

One last cool thing that influenced my thinking about the 465, is that if you do decide to run an Atlas, AA has an adapter to run the common 35 spline version directly to Atlas. Or Novaks has a new shaft and even nicer adapter to also run an Atlas, although they call it a Dana 300.

GREAT INFO Andy!
Much thanks for it!

Got the 4L60 set up on the "For sale" sections of Mud, Pirate, Reno4x4 and CL.

Well see what happens.

Thanks for the great info!

Keith

 

[chicago]

Epic indeed....

Full-on Awesome-o-city Keith!!

I can't wait to see you wheel this man.



-o-

ME TOO!
I feel just like I did before I started modding the Blotch rig..."WFT have I gotten myself in to!?"
This all started pretty simple...Ill just get the 40 swap in the motor and crap, pull some stuff from the Blotch rig and DONE!
Its turned into a whole nother RE build.

Ah well. I could die tomorrow and what would it all be worth if I was not doing something with my time and MONEY besides SAVING it.

Thanks for chimin in!

Keith

 

[chicago]

So you didn't like my idea about a first/second/third mortgage to finance your dealio eh?

I's just trying to help

Im just waiting for someone to SPONSOR the build!
You up for it?

 

[Mace]

IMHO Running an manual in a purpose built crawler is a bit silly.

It'll work just fine. But honestly, the auto makes things so much easier.