Can you notice the Secondary open on your 60?

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by MDH33, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. MDH33

    MDH33

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    I recently had the carb rebuilt on my stock '85 FJ60 2F. I had lousy miles per gallon, no power, hard starting and no secondary acceleration.

    My question:

    Should I be able to feel the secondary kick in when I floor it? I can be in third or fourth with the pedal 1/4 down and when I mat it, nothing. Seems like there should be something extra. It's much more noticable when I'm at higher elevation, above 9000 feet.

    Any opinions? Is there something amiss, or am I just expecting too much out of my 2f?
     
  2. GLTHFJ60

    GLTHFJ60 Rum Runnin' SILVER Star

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    I think that you are expecting too much out of your 2F. How many miles do you have?

    Quite cliche yet true, "These are tractor motors, not race motors."

    :beer:
     
  3. zebrabeefj40

    zebrabeefj40

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    I can feel when the secondary open at highway speeds. This is on a fully smogged Aug. '84 FJ60 with a bone stock motor. It's not a kick in the pants like a V8 but it does help when climbing hills or passing.

    Nick
     
  4. GLTHFJ60

    GLTHFJ60 Rum Runnin' SILVER Star

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    Really? I could never feel it. Maybe it's because my carb needed a rebuild. I'll check when it's back on the rig.

    :beer:
     
  5. swank60

    swank60

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    I can feel mine at highway speeds also. It's not much, but you do feel it.
     
  6. chitown40

    chitown40

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    Can definitely feel it anytime I floor it, highway or city. Check the shaft on the secondary throttle plate. The linkage that gets pulled open by the diaphragm is easily put back on incorrectly.
     
  7. Mark W

    Mark W

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    It's subtle, but you can feel it. One of the first things I look for on any test drive I do of a rig before working on it.


    Mark...
     
  8. MDH33

    MDH33

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    Hmmmm.... I thought it should be working. Damn. This is a Jim C. rebuilt carb so I wouldn't think he would put it back together incorrectly and get that secondary diaphram wrong. Is there anything else, like linkage, or vacuum lines that would cause it to not function?
     
  9. beaufort-fj60

    beaufort-fj60

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    it is possible to put the linkage back wrong. two pieces long and short, flip flop them and see if that works
     
  10. MDH33

    MDH33

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    Can you explain about the linkage? I'm not envisioning the specific parts you're mentioning and that linkage on the Aisin carb is not simple.
     
  11. beaufort-fj60

    beaufort-fj60

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  12. MDH33

    MDH33

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    Thanks for posting that. I compared my linkage and it all looks good. Is there a way to test the diaphram? It should be new (rebuild in Sept.) but maybe it's faulty.

    New problem. While checking the linkage i noticed fuel dripping out of the front of the carb. Appears to be coming from the two jet plugs under the window. Can these just be tightened or do they control any type of flow/adjustment.

    Sorry about the novice questions, but I've never worked on an Aisin carb before (hence sending it to Jim C.)

    Thanks.
     
  13. 60wag

    60wag SILVER Star

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    Those plugs are just plugs and should not be leaking. Tightening them won't hurt. If they still leak, remove them to see if there is a gasket under the head of the plug.
     
  14. sl33py

    sl33py

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    hope you don't mind me pointing out the obvious -

    recent tune up? If it's a freshly rebuilt carb - maybe a tune up might help. I think the best running carb in the world would still do squat if the timing and valves are way off...

    anyone else think that might be it? I am joe-nobody around a carb. don't know squat either.

    rob
     
  15. GLTHFJ60

    GLTHFJ60 Rum Runnin' SILVER Star

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    Under those plugs is just a copper washer. They are there so that you can have access to the jets, primary and secondary. Pretty cool.

    Just wrench them down. You'll be alright.

    BTW, I just put them back in, so I'm positive. :D

    :beer:
     
  16. crawlin60

    crawlin60

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    the secondary circuit won't give you a kick in the pants if the accelerator pump isn't doing it's thing. I went thru two carb kits before I got a decent acc. pump (w/ rubber lip, not leather), and I think other people have noticed that our aisin carbs fail there often . That and adjusting the sec diaphragm linkage (a tad shorter) should give ya whatt you want...
     
  17. FJ40Jim

    FJ40Jim The Cruiser Whisperer SILVER Star

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    To test the actual diaphragm, remove the canister from the carb and push the link in til it bottoms. Now place a greasy finger firmly over the vacuum port. The link rod should stay put. when you release your finger it should move out to the rest position.

    It was tested before installation. It held vacuum then.

    The most common reason the engine/carb/secondary won't pull is because the throttle linkage is out of adjustment. Have your helper mash the gas pedal while you watch the back of the carburetor. If you can grab the throttle arm of the carb and move it further, then the gas pedal is not fully opening the carb. Adjust the vertical pushrod.

    Just tighten w/ 14mm wrench. But, I suspect the fuel is running down the front corner of the carb from the vicinity of the fuel inlet fitting. Try torquing the fuel line nut w/ a 17mm wrench.
     
  18. FJ40Jim

    FJ40Jim The Cruiser Whisperer SILVER Star

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    Wait, you're saying the lack of secondary action is noticeable above 9K feet? :doh:
    The 2F engine just doesn't make power at that altitude. The secondary will open less and less as altitude increases because the engine can' t make enough vacuum demand to open the secondary.

    When I test drive at 800'MSL, the secondary works noticebaly. But that is on a very healthy 2F w/ ported head, recurved distributor, little smog gear, functional cold ram-air, etc.
    :cheers:
     
  19. jamot

    jamot

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    I agree with what most of the previous posters have said.

    The most noticable "feel" on the secondary for me is almost always on a freshly tuned engine, milled head, and smogged. Less noticable on rigs with other pieces of the puzzle that may need attention... ie clean air filter, working pcv valve, clean fuel filter, good plugs and wires, proper valve adjustment.

    Checking and lubing the mechanical linkage is a great, often overlooked idea too... Look at the obvious and the less than obvious.... which I usually forget.

    A tractor motor.... yes, and a lovely one when it's properly tuned.
     
  20. MDH33

    MDH33

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    Thanks for all the responses, very helpful. I'm going to replace the plugs, wires cap and rotor and get the valves checked. I tested the linkage and it seems to be adjusted. With the pedal to the floor the secondary pushrod engages the diaphram, but apparently there isn't enough vacuum to open it up further.

    I'm going to be driving my FJ60 almost 3000 miles on a road trip later this month and I'm trying to get it running as best it can. I'll post the results of the tune up and anything else I find. Thanks again.
    :cheers:
     
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