Cam And Lifter Woes (1 Viewer)

[PabloCruise]

Is that ITM new or regrind?

 

[Steamer]

Is that ITM new or regrind?

New. ITM ENGINE COMPONENTS 0564515. I just looked up the number at Rock Auto where I got it and they are now showing "out of stock" . I hope that's temporary. First the Melling and now ITM. Jeeeez!

 

[sggoat]

I can lend my Brown and Sharpe, stamped "USA" telescoping gauges if anyone needs them; USPS small box. Lifter bores, cylinder bores, etc. I also have a nice Starrett combination square. The rule and the head on the combination square are good enough on most combination squares for measuring planes if you place a feeler gauge under them - you might need to remove burrs from improper tool handling, but, they usually work for shadetree mechanic purposes.

An old trick that a I learned from a Navy machinist was using a cigarette paper to feel out .001-inch. If you place the paper in a space and you are pulling it and the paper rips it tells you quite a bit more than noticing slight resistance on a metal feeler gauge. We could find where a part was in a milling machine vise by mounting an exact size pin in the spindle of a milling machine, and moving the table until the drag of the paper was enough to tear it against the part in the vice. I could see using the paper in the bore of the block, in conjunction with a telescoping gauge, to get a better sense of the size and roundness of the lifter bores. When you simply set the telescoping gauges, you have to do a careful dance to not collapse them against the sides of the bore, having that paper in there would tell me how tight it is set without moving/wiggling the actual tool to find out. Then once your telescoping gauge is totally set tight, then carefully remove it from the bore. Check the size between the two convex plungers on the bench with your calipers, or micrometer (preferred for greater precision), accounting for the .001" of the cigarette paper. I can also lend out an up to 1" micrometer, or a 1"-2"micrometer.

I have a set of Starrett gauges as well--easy to loan if you need-been off to a couple of members who needed them--have them back now--so available---

 

[PabloCruise]

New. ITM ENGINE COMPONENTS 0564515. I just looked up the number at Rock Auto where I got it and they are now showing "out of stock" . I hope that's temporary. First the Melling and now ITM. Jeeeez!

Jinkees.
I looked up Toyota p/n 13511-60060 (3FE cam) and see lots of NLA messages.
I may be on a really short timeline when I get the 40 into the shop, so I am contemplating finding a used cam and sending it off to Delta so all my ducks are in a row when we pull that first lifter...

 

[PabloCruise]

ITM cam and lifters from Rock Auto. I would have preferred the Melling MC803 but I don't think it's available. I say that because places like Summit, Jegs, and Autozone say it ships from supplier. The Melling web page doesn't show it. And when I called and inquired, all Melling said was that the number is still in the system but there are none available. They couldn't tell if they were discontinued or if they will get more. So I just moved on. I've got all the parts. Tomorrow is flush day for oil and cooling system and then it'll start going back together.

Is it all back together?
Curious as to how you like the new cam when you fire it up!

 

[Steamer]

Is it all back together?

It’s coming along but not as fast as I’d like. I took apart way more then I needed to and can’t bring myself to put anything back without fresh paint and some fresh bolts. Cam & lifters went in yesterday, and today I re-pulled the crank pulley after finding the oil slinger on the bench. Rocker assembly went on also just as it got dark, so valve adjust will be at sunrise. Then the dizzy, battery, radiator, linkage and more. I’ll take a pic of where it’s at so far in the morning.

 

[Steamer]

Jinkees.
I looked up Toyota p/n 13511-60060 (3FE cam) and see lots of NLA messages.
I may be on a really short timeline when I get the 40 into the shop, so I am contemplating finding a used cam and sending it off to Delta so all my ducks are in a row when we pull that first lifter...

I just looked and Rock Auto shows the ITM cam back in stock. Don't know about the Melling MC803. You could always call Melling support and see if anything has changed since I talked to them.

 

[Steamer]

Forgot I got a little camera work done today despite the sticky hands. Did cleaning with kerosene and used the same brushes to spread the assembly lube.



Setting up for the 304 ft. lbs. of torque.

 

[DougAustinTx]

Just a reminder, the rocker shaft can be put in backwards and you'll get NO oil up to the rockers. Make sure the oiling hole in the pedestal lines up with the hole in the rocker shaft.

 

[ERNRAM]

Hey Doug,

I'm in Austin also and I have a 2F that is needing a rebuild. I have all the parts, so wondering who did you use for machining the block (boring and decking)?

Thanks
Ernie

 

[PabloCruise]

...I re-pulled the crank pulley after finding the oil slinger on the bench...

That is exactly how my projects go!
Why do it once, when you can do it twice???

 

[Steamer]

It’s coming along. Beautiful weather today which is good since I work outside under a canopy. Adjusted the valves. Drained the oil and the kerosene I flushed with. Dumped in two quarts of 10w-40 that were left over from who knows what and let that go on through & drain. Loaded up with Lucas Hot Rod 10w-40 and a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube. Then got the dizzy inserted correctly on the very first try without having to move the pump slot again. Felt proud briefly till I realized I forgot to pre-prime the pump. Spun the pump by hand with a screwdriver & could get 20 psi and saw oil coming out of a few rockers but it was getting dark. Spun it with a drill not exceeding 60 psi and holding a flashlight could verify oil coming out of all 24 rocker holes as well as a little oozing out of some of the shaft bushings.

 

[Steamer]

I was waiting delivery of new bolts for the timing cover and had some bolts that were too long holding it and the gasket in place so I could continue getting the crank pulley on. I only use Never-Seize on gaskets so no problem on leaving it loose for a few days. So, after oil priming was done, the 1/2 quart of Lucas laying on the concrete didn’t upset me too much since it confirmed the oil nozzle for the timing gears was functioning. For those who don’t know better, I planned it that way. Not a big deal as my oil dry disbursement drill is always well rehearsed.

 

[DougAustinTx]

Hey Doug,

I'm in Austin also and I have a 2F that is needing a rebuild. I have all the parts, so wondering who did you use for machining the block (boring and decking)?

Thanks
Ernie

Quality Engine Exchange on N. Lamar Blvd let me stand by the boring and honing machine with my .001 and .002 feeler gauges and I checked every cylinder as he went along for clearance. They have since closed down (hopefully not for anything I did). Didn't need to deck the block. I used my 3'x3' laboratory granite block and Big sanding sheets to get the head flat. Did the valves myself using my old Sioux valve and seat grinder after installing bronze valve guide liners. It's getting really hard to find a machine shop in this town that's not back-logged 6 months. Sorry, don't want to hijack this thread. Doug

 

[DougAustinTx]

I was waiting delivery of new bolts for the timing cover and had some bolts that were too long holding it and the gasket in place so I could continue getting the crank pulley on. I only use Never-Seize on gaskets so no problem on leaving it loose for a few days. So, after oil priming was done, the 1/2 quart of Lucas laying on the concrete didn’t upset me too much since it confirmed the oil nozzle for the timing gears was functioning. For those who don’t know better, I planned it that way. Not a big deal as my oil dry disbursement drill is always well rehearsed.

Steamer, did you do the modification on the side of the head to eliminate the potential oil leak where the oil galley has a pressed-in plug? Requires drilling out the aluminum plug, tapping threads in the hole and screwing in one or two set screws with sealant.

 

[Steamer]

Steamer, did you do the modification on the side of the head to eliminate the potential oil leak where the oil galley has a pressed-in plug? Requires drilling out the aluminum plug, tapping threads in the hole and screwing in one or two set screws with sealant

Appreciate the reminder but I did the galley plug a few years back with the head in place method & used a 1/16” NPT tapered pipe plug & tap. Replaced the plug this time around.

I ordered the wrong bolts for the timing cover and now the right ones are due Monday. Jeeez, this project keeps dragging out. I’ll use the wait time to tend to some non-rig related projects that got ignored through this one, so I closed & covered it up last night and looks like I’ll be back on it Tues.

 

[Steamer]

Well, it is running and I’m very pleased. The main reason I pulled the head was for my poor and deteriorating vacuum. Before pulling the head, my best vacuum was 11 to 13 inches at rpm above 1000. But easing off the hand throttle, when rpm got down to 900 to 800 the vacuum would drop low and get erratic with the gauge needle rapidly whipping back and forth in the 3 to 6 inch range and rpm would drop to 550 to 600 rpm without touching the hand throttle.

Going by posts from others with the Delta 205-S grind, I thought I should expect a little bit of vacuum loss but not that much. I’m now holding 18 inches with a steady needle at any rpm.

I did the cam break-in procedure using the “Driven Break-In Oil.” I ran if for about an hour 4 more times with cool downs in between. I then changed out the oil for the “Lucas Hot Rod & Classic” 10w-40. I’m not doing anymore additives. I pre-primed the oil for break-in so oil pressure came up instantly. I have abandoned the Wix tall filters along with my theory on bigger is better because of capacity. Using the little Toyota "YZZD3" filter makes sense to me now as it will fill faster when empty from doing an oil change or if it leaks down after sitting a long period. With an oil and empty filter change, I got pressure in 5.2 seconds and “HERE” is a vid of a cold start after sitting 24 hours.

I can't compare the ITM cam to the Delta re-grind because it runs so much better with the head being rebuilt. Can’t wait to get it in the swamp and see how it performs. I’m still on the initial cold valve adjust so I’ll soon check them hot, re-torque the head & manifold bolts, and check the lifter rotation.

I found “THIS” YouTube video interesting/informative. At 7:00 minutes in he talks about oils & zinc.

 

[middlecalf]

Rings need friction to seat properly, and zddp apparently can impede that. What oil does one use when breaking in a cam and seating rings in a complete rebuild? And ring seating involves multiple rpm cycles after warm up (i.e drive it) but cam break-in process is at a moderately high ~fixed rpm (neither involve extended idle at temp). Just curious as I only need to seat new rings in honed cylinders.

 

[Steamer]

Rings need friction to seat properly, and zddp apparently can impede that. What oil does one use when breaking in a cam and seating rings in a complete rebuild? And ring seating involves multiple rpm cycles after warm up (i.e drive it) but cam break-in process is at a moderately high ~fixed rpm (neither involve extended idle at temp). Just curious as I only need to seat new rings in honed cylinders.

Not knowing the answer got me looking around and just now found "THIS".

 

[middlecalf]

Keep watching those and I realize more and more I have no idea what I’m doing .