Im looking to do the same suspension setup on stock sized tires. Mostly to deal with shock temps on really long stretches of corrugated gravel road.
BP-51 with stock size tires (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SemperCruiser
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Did the aftermarket vendors do emergency handling tests or high speed test on a track or test it in different weather conditions and road conditions all over the world?
For example, Toyota re-tuned 2020 Tacoma TRD PRO Fox suspension just because the rims were 5 pounds lighter each. I am sure that costs them a pretty penny just to maintain a safety/performance margin.
How many aftermarket vendors crash test their bumpers or sliders?? 1 or 2 out of how many?!
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Below is a classic LC YouTube video. I am not sure it is a Toyota test, but I bet they do much more in much worst conditions. I would be curious to see a lifted cruiser doing this same test. The aftermarket guys probably test their products, but IMHO it is not even close to what Toyota does.
I think you all are giving toyota too much credit. The tires and suspension provided on their stock trucks is abysmal. It’s for mpg tests and floaty soft test drives for good noise and vibration results on short test drives.
easy to feel the performance gains while driving.
easy to feel the performance gains while driving.
I am not sure what testing across weather conditions and road conditions were used.
however I think we are solving for different things. Your Qs speak to risk. The risk associated with aftermarket parts fitting within safety specs and to the standard of OEM.
my point is about needs. Fundamentally the stock suspension doesn’t cater to certain needs and using aftermarket addresses the needs albeit with risk. That risk can be mitigated to some extent IE by going to a suspension shop that knows what they’re doing.
ultimately it comes down to one’s needs and risk tolerance. For me, the LC200 stock suspension doesn’t fully fulfill my needs (more like wants) and I would be willing to take the risk of aftermarket for handling improvements on body roll and brake dive
kcjaz
SILVER Star
Here is BP-51 with stock wheels/tires. I ran that way for for a few weeks until my new wheels and tires came in.
Looks like you skipped leg day
This is a good start to answering your questions. Toyota builds suspension to a different set of requirements that what most people who are upgrading and lifting suspension here are looking for. If you were an original average Joe buyer and went and drove a Mercedes GLS 550 and then went and test drove a Land Cruiser back to back, if the LC rode like a very stiff truck, people who don't care about absolute off road performance, or only value luxury ride quality, would likely rule it out.
Toyota also still builds stuff within a fixed budget, even at $85k+, and to suit the bulk of the users in the bell curve. I wouldn't hesitate to put an aftermarket suspension from a reputeable brand under my Land Cruiser, especially if enabled me to use the vehicle how I want or need to use it.
You mean like BP-51 that snapped like a toothpick:
Thread: BP-51 snapped - WTF!!! - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bp-51-snapped-wtf.1241640/
I'm sure there are a million scenarios where stuff has failed, and you have a good point. I never said aftermarket suspension never fails, simply pointed out that OE Toyota suspension isn't suited for every situation that enthusiast might encounter. Crap happens, if you don't want to risk it, keep your truck stock and drive it reasonably.
The more I read that thread, the more I like my OEM Toyota abysmal and mpg/soft driven suspension set.
Yup…and the above is from a MAJOR well-respected suspension aftermarket brand. Don’t tell me that OME does more R&D than Toyota engineers specifically on the Land Cruiser. How about the other smaller brands that make suspension for our 5800-6100+ lbs LC200??
Don’t get me wrong…the stock shocks will probably fail early if you off-road a lot (and if you add big heavy tires) in terms of leaking or overheat if you bounce around a lot. BUT, it won’t snap like a twig and leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
TBH, this is one of the major reason why i am seriously considering going back to P-metric tires next time around (likely Michelin Defender in stock size)…to decrease wear & tear on suspension (esp shocks) and improve MPG by a tiny bit.
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Freak failure by ARB. And they stood by their product. Toytec, also linked above, is junk.
There are many aftermarket products designed to take far more abuse than stock configurations.
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Maybe. But there were two people in that thread that had OME BP-51 failure I think.
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CharlieS
GOLD Star
The Toyota Production System is designed to find the ideal compromise for the factors they are designing for. That makes their decisions very good for the intended uses of the vehicle. I remember reading about a case study of the TPS exhaust system optimization in a six sigma training years ago. They take a very mathematical approach to balancing trade offs.
The fact that Toyota designs and tests extensively is great and true, but they test against their requirements. Likely a different set of requirements than the typical ‘mud member who is looking to upgrade their suspension for severe duty use.
I am reasonably certain that Toyota aren’t optimizing the stock suspension for extreme duty offroad use.
This comparison of aftermarket versus stock testing seems to conflate issues, since the aftermarket is designed to address different needs and intended uses, and therefore has a different set of requirements.
The assertion that aftermarket manufacturers don’t test as much or as extensively as Toyota is likely true, but it is also largely irrelevant.
Toyota doing a high volume and wide scope of testing on “on road” requirements, doesn’t mean anything with respect to how well they would do against a set of “off road” requirements.
Changing the topic slightly, what I find odd is people buying high performance offroad suspensions and expecting them to be as plush and compliant as the stock system. Or being shocked that they have a shorter service intervals and higher maintenance requirements. It seems like a lot of people want their vehicle to have the lift and look of an offroad racer, with the performance of a commuter, grocery and kid hauler, and the durability and manners of the OEM suspension.
The fact that Toyota designs and tests extensively is great and true, but they test against their requirements. Likely a different set of requirements than the typical ‘mud member who is looking to upgrade their suspension for severe duty use.
I am reasonably certain that Toyota aren’t optimizing the stock suspension for extreme duty offroad use.
This comparison of aftermarket versus stock testing seems to conflate issues, since the aftermarket is designed to address different needs and intended uses, and therefore has a different set of requirements.
The assertion that aftermarket manufacturers don’t test as much or as extensively as Toyota is likely true, but it is also largely irrelevant.
Toyota doing a high volume and wide scope of testing on “on road” requirements, doesn’t mean anything with respect to how well they would do against a set of “off road” requirements.
Changing the topic slightly, what I find odd is people buying high performance offroad suspensions and expecting them to be as plush and compliant as the stock system. Or being shocked that they have a shorter service intervals and higher maintenance requirements. It seems like a lot of people want their vehicle to have the lift and look of an offroad racer, with the performance of a commuter, grocery and kid hauler, and the durability and manners of the OEM suspension.
Agree 100%. IF i were to lift my LC, then it would be for a specific need…such as wanting to increase clearance angles and/or fit larger tires (again for clearance benefits) for off-roading needs. I would not do a lift or ANY aftermarket suspension if i don’t plan on needing the increase clearance angles OR if i spend most of my time at the mall with occasional use of dirt roads. Sure a lift kit looks cool…but it does come with compromises on-road and is meant for off-road needs.
I partially agree but am yet to be convinced that swapping the OEM Toyota suspension is required/recommended to go off-roading in maybe 70% of applications, unless we are talking about real hardcore stuff. To the OP topic, I do not see any reason for him to spend a load of money in aftermarket suspension if the rig will split functions between DD and hunting, camping, towing. Not to mention that IMHO lifting the rig and keeping OEM tires/wheels does not look good from a pure aesthetics stand point (skipping leg day). But, again, it is his money and to each his own.
Right. That’s why i wrote that you should only get lift if you need clearances. If your off-roading does not need more than what stock can provide (as is case with me), then there is no point IMO.
I ran like that for a very long time, years then eventually went to 34's with some 3/4" spacers.
