What nonsense. Water to air is much more efficient and always will be at dumping/transferring heat.
Bolt on turbo kit (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter scottryana
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mudgudgeon
Resident galah
You're only partly right. Transfering yes, dumping, no.
W2A or A2A, the system has to shed heat to the air.
Heat soak a W2A system, and water will hold the heat in the systen longer than a simple A2A system
Nope, you're not partly but fully wrong. One mans transferring is another mans dumping
Love how you took @OutlawMike's wording out of context and put your own spin on it to pointless say he's wrong.Just to bring this back to relevance, it's a turbo petrol thread. Heat soak is not a big deal on these systems as they aren't on boost constantly. Water to air is far superior - fact!
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
Fixed.
Each has benefits and drawbacks. It depends on the needs of the user. But if A/W was definitively superior, why are dozens of OEMs, and hundreds of aftermarket companies going A/A? I don't even know of an OEM that uses A/W but I can name dozens that use A/A. Toyota, Audi, BMW, Honda, GM, Subaru, Dodge/RAM, mercedes, volvo, saab, Ford, mini... the list goes on. Basically if it's got a turbo, it's got an A/A intercooler. There has to be some reasoning behind that, right?
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I have a good-sized A/A intercooler plan in the works. I'll share my photos and what I had to do do get it to fit. At this point it's looking like I may have to raise the transmission cooler by about an inch. :edit: and probably wont work with most winch setups.
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- Thread starter
- #4,807
New Supra turbo is A/W, Tundra SC is A/W, 3SGTE OEM turbo A/W, BMW B58 used in like 6 turbo BMW's is A/W, Hellcat SC A/W
Different design and cost requirements require different solutions. For example the A/A Subaru mounted intercooler on top of the engine is probably the cheapest and least complicated design, it is also probably the poorest when it comes to actual cooling. A car that sees a lot of highway miles at highway speeds benefits from an A/A because it has large volumes of cool air moving over it. A truck at slow speeds benefits more from A/W with a good fan. Pick your poison there is no right or wrong, just depends on the personal use scenario.
Different design and cost requirements require different solutions. For example the A/A Subaru mounted intercooler on top of the engine is probably the cheapest and least complicated design, it is also probably the poorest when it comes to actual cooling. A car that sees a lot of highway miles at highway speeds benefits from an A/A because it has large volumes of cool air moving over it. A truck at slow speeds benefits more from A/W with a good fan. Pick your poison there is no right or wrong, just depends on the personal use scenario.
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NLXTACY
Wits' End
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A/W is pretty much the only option that will fit Joey's "has to work with dual batteries, winches, bumpers, OBA" theme, so probably nothing to worry about there
NLXTACY
Wits' End
A2A will never come from me. In order for things to be successful on my end I need solutions that are reversible and with the end user installer in mind. A2A requires surgery and compromises that are extremely individual decisions.
A2W might come from me. Not saying I’m not working on it but I have other priorities at the moment because I’m trying to keep the lights on and the cats fed.
Meth injection will come from me. It’s basically done. It’s simple. It’s reversible. It works and it has the potential to add HP which the ICs dont.
^ this is the final Wits’ End word on the subject. My mind will not be changed and I think it’s been pretty consistent since...oh I don’t know, day one
so if someone wants to make their own decisions based on the above, I can help out where I can. If someone wants to produce and productize their own kit, I’ll support the decision...as long as it doesn’t look like ass.
A2W might come from me. Not saying I’m not working on it but I have other priorities at the moment because I’m trying to keep the lights on and the cats fed.
Meth injection will come from me. It’s basically done. It’s simple. It’s reversible. It works and it has the potential to add HP which the ICs dont.
^ this is the final Wits’ End word on the subject. My mind will not be changed and I think it’s been pretty consistent since...oh I don’t know, day one
so if someone wants to make their own decisions based on the above, I can help out where I can. If someone wants to produce and productize their own kit, I’ll support the decision...as long as it doesn’t look like ass.
I'm an A2W, A2A, Turbo-Noob.
Can the area under the driver's seat be utilized for an intercooler with a set of (guarded) fans on it? There's a lot of room under there and I've seen some vans/busses with A/C condensers underneath. Not ideal probably but would it be a possibility if you could adequately protect the fans?
Can the area under the driver's seat be utilized for an intercooler with a set of (guarded) fans on it? There's a lot of room under there and I've seen some vans/busses with A/C condensers underneath. Not ideal probably but would it be a possibility if you could adequately protect the fans?
NLXTACY
Wits' End
Because why the hell not?!
- Thread starter
- #4,815
This would not be fun, it would be like the heater being on all the time. There is plenty of room for A/W with a good heat exchanger and fans up front. And there is room for an A/A if people want to be creative.
Sign me up for a set. Looking at that logo while driving along under boost would just bring a smile to my face.
NLXTACY
Wits' End
JUST DID 600 MILES: MY REPORT
On Wed my wife and I headed out to Vegas to attend the SEMA show. We returned a few hours ago. This was 600 miles round trip with plenty of grades to test the turbo on including Cajon Pass and Halloran Summit.
The night before leaving I figured it would be a good idea to wrap the downpipe in heat wrap since the downpipe blanket I'm having made wasn't ready yet. No big deal wrapping it and the AC hard line. The only thing not covered is the junction from turbo to downpipe and the wastegate itself. Once wrapped I had my little brother reinstall everything back since he's done it a few dozen times now.
The morning we left my brother mentioned that he couldn't get the mounting clamp on because the wrap was too thick. He picked a bad time to tell me because we needed to leave. I gave it literally a 1/2 second of thought and decided to try running it without the little bracket that hard mounts the downpipe to the truck's bellhousing. This proved to be a stupid decision.
The entire trip there the truck was only turned off long enough to get gas. Not enough time to completely cool down for a complete heat cycle. Zero issues the whole way to Vegas and the truck and turbo is just amazingly bad ass and couldn't be happier.
While in Vegas there was a total of 8 heat cycles. This is where the result of my bad decision started to rear its ugly head. My wife and I met with with Dan Kunz, Kurt Williams, Bryson Tsujimoto and a handful of others where we all got stupid (fireballs may have been involved). Anyway some of the folks wanted to check out the turbo truck so off we went to the parking lot.
Truck started up fine, questions were answered, it was time to get to the hotel. But...I did notice an exhaust smell. It was slight but it was there. I thought maybe the welded CAT sprung a hole with all the movement. Figured I'd check it out when everything cooled down. Forgot about the issue this morning until we were on our way home. Went up Halloran Summit and the truck was happiest pulling 82mph up the summit. It could easily go faster that just seemed the sweet spot. It was pulling hard and engine temps hit 198.
Once we got to the top and basically coasted down the other side, we could both start smelling it. Something was melting and a definite smell of exhaust. But truck was driving fine although I could start hearing that typical exhaust leak noise. We pulled over at Baker, scored some MAD GREEK and let the truck cool down for a bit. After lunch I popped the hood and saw what I hoped I wouldn’t see.
Since there was no downpipes mounting clamp there was nothing to the pipe rigidly mounted to the bell housing. This meant the weight, and movement, of the downpipes would be shared between the exhaust mounts and the V-band clamp at the turbo. It was the heat cycles that exposed the flaw of my 1/2 second decision. The connection is thin stainless steel to thick cast iron. These could have different expansion and contraction rates. Also different to the V-band clamp. Well, the heat cycles exposed the REASON for the clamp. The heat cycling allowed the downpipe to shift downward JUST enough to expose a small slit of exhaust gas coming out of the turbo.
The result: The hood liner disintegrated at the leak site. The F6 Woven wrap melted that was protecting the main engine harness. Its melting point is 482º. If I hadn’t had wrapped it, it would have destroyed the harness. All of the other cables, hoses, etc were protected with the supplied heats leaving so I’m really happy all that was included.
Luckily that is all that happened but it could have been a lot worse. The key is USE ALL OF THE PARTS I SUPPLY! Don’t be lazy. I got lazy and it could have been bad. But its more about my bruised pride. Now I could have just hid all of this and kept it to myself but I want the transparency. Its good to know what could happen with certain decisions and why.
In a few days I will have the downpipe blanket sent to me to be tested and adjusted. I will recommend either the blanket or ceramic coating (or even both). Some may prefer wrapping and that’s kinda ok too.
On Wed my wife and I headed out to Vegas to attend the SEMA show. We returned a few hours ago. This was 600 miles round trip with plenty of grades to test the turbo on including Cajon Pass and Halloran Summit.
The night before leaving I figured it would be a good idea to wrap the downpipe in heat wrap since the downpipe blanket I'm having made wasn't ready yet. No big deal wrapping it and the AC hard line. The only thing not covered is the junction from turbo to downpipe and the wastegate itself. Once wrapped I had my little brother reinstall everything back since he's done it a few dozen times now.
The morning we left my brother mentioned that he couldn't get the mounting clamp on because the wrap was too thick. He picked a bad time to tell me because we needed to leave. I gave it literally a 1/2 second of thought and decided to try running it without the little bracket that hard mounts the downpipe to the truck's bellhousing. This proved to be a stupid decision.
The entire trip there the truck was only turned off long enough to get gas. Not enough time to completely cool down for a complete heat cycle. Zero issues the whole way to Vegas and the truck and turbo is just amazingly bad ass and couldn't be happier.
While in Vegas there was a total of 8 heat cycles. This is where the result of my bad decision started to rear its ugly head. My wife and I met with with Dan Kunz, Kurt Williams, Bryson Tsujimoto and a handful of others where we all got stupid (fireballs may have been involved). Anyway some of the folks wanted to check out the turbo truck so off we went to the parking lot.
Truck started up fine, questions were answered, it was time to get to the hotel. But...I did notice an exhaust smell. It was slight but it was there. I thought maybe the welded CAT sprung a hole with all the movement. Figured I'd check it out when everything cooled down. Forgot about the issue this morning until we were on our way home. Went up Halloran Summit and the truck was happiest pulling 82mph up the summit. It could easily go faster that just seemed the sweet spot. It was pulling hard and engine temps hit 198.
Once we got to the top and basically coasted down the other side, we could both start smelling it. Something was melting and a definite smell of exhaust. But truck was driving fine although I could start hearing that typical exhaust leak noise. We pulled over at Baker, scored some MAD GREEK and let the truck cool down for a bit. After lunch I popped the hood and saw what I hoped I wouldn’t see.
Since there was no downpipes mounting clamp there was nothing to the pipe rigidly mounted to the bell housing. This meant the weight, and movement, of the downpipes would be shared between the exhaust mounts and the V-band clamp at the turbo. It was the heat cycles that exposed the flaw of my 1/2 second decision. The connection is thin stainless steel to thick cast iron. These could have different expansion and contraction rates. Also different to the V-band clamp. Well, the heat cycles exposed the REASON for the clamp. The heat cycling allowed the downpipe to shift downward JUST enough to expose a small slit of exhaust gas coming out of the turbo.
The result: The hood liner disintegrated at the leak site. The F6 Woven wrap melted that was protecting the main engine harness. Its melting point is 482º. If I hadn’t had wrapped it, it would have destroyed the harness. All of the other cables, hoses, etc were protected with the supplied heats leaving so I’m really happy all that was included.
Luckily that is all that happened but it could have been a lot worse. The key is USE ALL OF THE PARTS I SUPPLY! Don’t be lazy. I got lazy and it could have been bad. But its more about my bruised pride. Now I could have just hid all of this and kept it to myself but I want the transparency. Its good to know what could happen with certain decisions and why.
In a few days I will have the downpipe blanket sent to me to be tested and adjusted. I will recommend either the blanket or ceramic coating (or even both). Some may prefer wrapping and that’s kinda ok too.
NLXTACY
Wits' End
not at all. It’s very clear what happened. I took a trip without putting on a supporting bracket. It was dumb on my part. But I’m detailing it in all it’s glory as a warning to others to NOT skip steps during the install.
Dirty Koala
SILVER Star
Noted and timely..my install starts today. Thanks for sharing Joey.
