BJ60's DO NOT GET 30MPG. (1 Viewer)

[Dougal]

Actually, I think we have concluded that 30mpg/uk is attainable but that 30mpg/us is not.

We still have no verified accounts of BJ60's doing 30UKmpg.

Sure they'll likely get there on a single perfect run. But "one night stand" mpg is as much a combination of errors pointing in the right direction as anything else.
By the time you've got your three tank average, it's not going to be 30UKMPG or anywhere close.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

Well out here we be driving country miles, so that's why I get 20 cmpg (milk jug gallons) or less.

sometimes 15 mpg if we be deep in the sticks. The farther in the country you get the longer the miles get, didn't you know that?

 

[crushers]

well, yes, we have had it verified that some can get 30 mpg imp. just not to Dougals level of acceptance.
what some need to do is post up on that public recording site.
will all get 30 mpg? no
will any get 30 mpg US? highly doubtful
in the right circumstances and with the right driver, a stock BJ40/60, then 30 mpg imp is achievable.

 

[SurfPonto]

Great thread

In regards to TDI's check this out
84 mpg?! Couple Break Mileage Record With Passat TDI

I think by "hypermiling" I got 21mpg U.S. in my 80 once. Of course that was downhill with a tail wind

Newsflash, VW TDi's don't get 70mpg either.

Yes you will find these claims all over the internet. Best described as "one night stand" fuel economy.

The average landcruiser drinks 12-14 litres/100km. Sure you can get 10 litres/100km from many of them, if you drive them empty on the highway at speeds a grandmother would complain about.

But who buys a landcruiser to drive slowly and unloaded on the highway?

This is why sites like Fuelly and Spritmonitor.de are so good. It's brainless logging of totals and averages and does the maths for you. Real world data which often directly contradicts the figures posted in for-sale ads on the internet.
Operator error is also a great contributor to BS claims. It was recently on here we had a poster bragging of 30 mpg (US). Further scrutiny showed maths errors and an actual result of 17 mpg (US).

 

[cruisedeisel]

my true mileage

you got me crusher. that was straight outta my ass. but the truth is i have never achieved more than 25 mpg. but!!!! i have 35" tires and my truck was full of tools. table saw, compressor, chop saw, nail guns, ladders on the roof when i recorded my mileage. it was on a trip from courtenay BC to nelson and back. 1800kms. 180 liters. i went up there to build a house for a friend.

this trip was through 3 major mountain passes as well.

24.86 km/h

like you said before. not bad for a brick on wheels.

plus my fuel tank was leaking. possibly a liter an hour. normally i never filled it up pass halfway but what do you do on a road trip? stop at every town or bite the bullet. i bit the bullet.

 

[crushers]

25 mpg imp with a loaded 60 is still darn respectable...

 

[John Galt]

this trip was through 3 major mountain passes as well.
24.86 km/h

25 km/h ??

If I drive that slow my truck can get extremely good mileage too.

 

[Dougal]

Great thread

In regards to TDI's check this out
84 mpg?! Couple Break Mileage Record With Passat TDI

I think by "hypermiling" I got 21mpg U.S. in my 80 once. Of course that was downhill with a tail wind

He does that for a living. I'd be very interested to know his tricks, because the advice he gives out directly contradicts methods that work for others. Particularly the coasting in neutral vs in gear point.

What is seldom mentioned is the average speed on these record breaking trips. One commentor on the article thinks they averaged 38mph.

 

[rustybucket]

A bj60 can get over 30 mpg if you follow the same steps as the ford ranger owner did in ecomodder.com

 

[doug720]

I will believe a BJ60 can do 30 MPH! But only downhill with a tailwind!

 

[rustybucket]

the ranger owner decreased the drag significantly ...and the same can be done to a bj60 to get over 30mpg.

 

[gerg]

I had an old rusty bj60 5spd bone stock that I got just over 900km per tank for over a year. Bout a tank a month on average. Drove only around 90 km/h and was basically all highway driving. After I rebult and transplanted that engine it consistently got 10% less. Previous trucks got usually 10l per 100k, but according to my wife I drive like an old man.

 

[MrMoMo]

Ok, just to F#%k with all of y'all....

Yes, there is a trick to this. No, it does not get near what is shown for fuel BURN. I use Fuelly to show what my true costs are. I burn veggie. What is tracked above is miles per "purchased" gallon. After all, that's what really matters, right? So, can I get 30MPG yes, but you have to define that. I get it per gallon (imp.) bought, not per gallon burned - and that's all I care about. Now, if you want to see some insane numbers (on the good side) I can post my TDI on veggie. If you want to see some scary numbers on the Sh%# side, I'll post my FZJ80!

 

[BC40]

^ figured that was what you were tracking when looking at what other BJ60s get for mileage on fuelly. Real average for BJ60's seems to range from 17-22 MPG
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/land_cruiser

 

[John Galt]

Ok, just to F#%k with all of y'all....
What is tracked above is miles per "purchased" gallon. After all, that's what really matters, right?

OK, if you want to figure MPG that way, my BJ-74 gets infinite MPG in the summer on B100, and quite possibly can achieve warp drive downhill with a tailwind.

 

[John Galt]

I will believe a BJ60 can do 30 MPH! But only downhill with a tailwind!

My truck can go a lot faster than 30 MPH downhill with a tailwind, even with the engine off.

 

[brownbear]

^ figured that was what you were tracking when looking at what other BJ60s get for mileage on fuelly. Real average for BJ60's seems to range from 17-22 MPG
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/land_cruiser

That's what I get but more towards the 22 all the time side. But's bush toddling around and some light highway. Now I have seen 30 imp gallons per mile. Many times. It was from country driving on back roads around 85kmh.

One trip I pulled a tent trailer loaded (4K lbs) and loaded my roof rack and inside, two adults and three kids plus a dog, logged 12,000 KMs and averaged 22 mpg imp. LOADED. I was slow and heavy. But that's really good mileage.

As mentioned this is a brick and not all winds are head winds eh.. I have seen decent tailwinds make a very easy going mpg. Long term recordings are needed to see the actual.

But really it's not important to me. I find the cost of fuel very insignificant in the scheme of things. I don't commute two hours a day in toronto traffic, and who the hell would in a BJ60! I really only find these to be hobby vehicles anyhow. I daily drove land cruisers for over 10 years and now that I use it for hobby only my enjoyment is returning with these trucks. I daily drive a 2012 F150 and 2005 Excursion. A little more power and convenience, and lot more fuel consumed.

 

[rustybucket]

There are four key factors that determine fuel economy of ANY vehicle design.

-Total Mass of the vehicle
-Total Parasitic drag
-Engine Displacement including evolution in engine design with motor assist
-Driver habits affect fuel use

What is the Mass of the vehicle in kilograms. The mass of the vehicle affect mostly in city fuel economy numbers. The heavier the vehicle, the more fuel it will consume. Reduce the weight of the vehicle, the vehicle will consume less fuel to do the same amount of work. Driving a truck that is empty of its cargo, replacing older steel body parts with composite or aluminum parts will increase the fuel efficiency of the vehicle.

What is the Aerodynamic Drag of the vehicle body in Cd. How Efficient the engine design is in propelling th vehicle in mixed driving conditions and of course, the size of the engine and if it has electrical motor assist. Lastly, driving habits also affect the fuel economy. One way to improve highway fuel economy fuel consumption numbers is to reduce the Parasitic drag on these trucks. FJ60s drag is so high it is like driving a piece of furniture down the highway. For a 20% reduction in parasitic drag, the installation of a under body belly pan would be required. This is just the start of the body modifications for obtaining even better highway fuel economy numbers.

For city driving, reduce the weight of the vehicle and you will see the stop go fuel economy numbers increase due to changes made that reduce the mass of the vehicle.

Lastly, driving habits can AKA hyper milling can reduce your fuel consumption. Example, when I see the intersection light turn yellow, I take my foot off the brake and cost to the light. If I am i luck, the light will turn green and traffic will start to move again, and I wont even need to use my brakes. In physics we learned that Force = Mass * Acceleration. So, F=M*A which means, less torque or Newtons of force are required to accelerate back up to traffic speeds. Less torque means less fuel required to achieve traffic that match traffic speeds.

IF Anyone knows of a production company that produces fiberglass body parts for these trucks please message me.

 

[Dougal]

There are four key factors that determine fuel economy of ANY vehicle design.

-Total Mass of the vehicle
-Total Parasitic drag
-Engine Displacement including evolution in engine design with motor assist
-Driver habits affect fuel use

What is the Mass of the vehicle in kilograms. The mass of the vehicle affect mostly in city fuel economy numbers. The heavier the vehicle, the more fuel it will consume. Reduce the weight of the vehicle, the vehicle will consume less fuel to do the same amount of work. Driving a truck that is empty of its cargo, replacing older steel body parts with composite or aluminum parts will increase the fuel efficiency of the vehicle.

What is the Aerodynamic Drag of the vehicle body in Cd. How Efficient the engine design is in propelling th vehicle in mixed driving conditions and of course, the size of the engine and if it has electrical motor assist. Lastly, driving habits also affect the fuel economy. One way to improve highway fuel economy fuel consumption numbers is to reduce the Parasitic drag on these trucks. FJ60s drag is so high it is like driving a piece of furniture down the highway. For a 20% reduction in parasitic drag, the installation of a under body belly pan would be required. This is just the start of the body modifications for obtaining even better highway fuel economy numbers.

For city driving, reduce the weight of the vehicle and you will see the stop go fuel economy numbers increase due to changes made that reduce the mass of the vehicle.

Lastly, driving habits can AKA hyper milling can reduce your fuel consumption. Example, when I see the intersection light turn yellow, I take my foot off the brake and cost to the light. If I am i luck, the light will turn green and traffic will start to move again, and I wont even need to use my brakes. In physics we learned that Force = Mass * Acceleration. So, F=M*A which means, less torque or Newtons of force are required to accelerate back up to traffic speeds. Less torque means less fuel required to achieve traffic that match traffic speeds.

IF Anyone knows of a production company that produces fiberglass body parts for these trucks please message me.

Some good ideas in there, but you're heading in the wrong direction.

Vehicle mass isn't a huge or even linear contributor. If you halve a vehicles mass it won't half the fuel use. If you double a vehicles mass it won't double the fuel use.
Changing panels to fibreglass won't even give measurable results. GRP is 1/3 the density of steel panels but they often need to be 3x as thick so any savings won't even be significant.

Aerodynamic losses are the result of sectional area, drag coefficient and speed travelled. The drag coefficient (how streamlined the body is) and area (how big the vehicle is) are linear. But speed travelled squares.
Driving at 110km/h uses 90% more energy to beat wind resistance than 80km/h.

Engine displacement isn't the issue, neither is electric assist. The real issue is engine efficiency at the required loads. Stick a 1.9tdi into a BJ60, gear it to ~1800rpm at cruising speed and that's as good as you're doing to do engine wise.
The drivetrain efficiency is also extremely important.

Driving habits, the most important part is to drive to minimise braking and it sounds like you've got that. Everytime you use the brakes you're burning fuel to do nothing other than heat up the brakes. The more stop/start your driving is, the more important this becomes. If you can coast to a stop then you've got it perfectly.
The second most important part is to keep changing up and keep engine rpm down. Your vehicle will use the least fuel at the slowest speed the engine can smoothly operate in the highest gear.

 

[crushers]

okay, i will chime in.
the biggest killer of fuel mileage is the driver.
these trucks were designed to do 80 k/h (50 mph). if you live in rural Ontario and drive the speed limit you are going to see much better fuel economy than someone driving from Calgary to Edmonton at 120 k/h.
heavy acceleration of city driving is murder on fuel economy.
then you add the lift kit, bigger tires, roof rack, winch and bumper, lunch box lockers and down goes the fuel mileage.

on average, so i have seen, every 5 k/h over 80 and you will drop roughly 2 mpg. so if you are driving at 110 k/h you could see a drop of 12 mpg. instead of 30 mpg, you might get 18 mpg ... which is what i have seen personally.

winter weather, ever hear the whining that comes with the mileage in winter? cold diff and tranny fluids, cold engine oil, idle time for warming up, slippage of tires in snow and on ice even during normal driving habits, all contribute to crappy fuel mileage. not taking into consideration winter fuel to begin with.

i have installed aluminum bodies and fiberglas bodies onto diesel 40/42 trucks and have never seen an increase in fuel mileage. in theory that might sound good but in reality ... good luck.

enough rambling for one night. back to your normal debate.