Cruiser Jimmy
Moderator
semlin said:
Semlin,
I've got some baseline info ya. This info is based on the KYB Monomax shocks which are spec'ed to the stock shock.
Front
Max length 571mm
Min length 355mm
Rear
Max length 572mm
Min length 362mm
bilstein/koni shock options and dimensions collected
- Thread starter semlin
- Start date
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Semlin,
I've got some baseline info ya. This info is based on the KYB Monomax shocks which are spec'ed to the stock shock.
Front
Max length 571mm
Min length 355mm
Rear
Max length 572mm
Min length 362mm
semlin
curmudgeon
- Thread starter
- #22
Update
I have more info on the Koni shocks including the elusive 88 series...
The $Can price for the 30 series heavytracks and 90 series Raid shocks noted above.
301427 C$118.26/per monotube
301427 C$118.26/per
905389 C$272.91/per twintube
905390 C$236.52/per
Plus C$40 freight charge. These shocks are sourced from Holland by Koni North America as a special order. According to Koni Australia these shocks are designed by Koni France. Koni Australia does not sell the 30 monotube series, preferring their 82 heavytrack twintube series line, but they do stock a "few" RAIDS. On an australian forum someone commented it is almost impossible to get koni retailers to give any details about the RAIDs which they do not seem to want to sell.
Here are the specs on the other "82 2385/86sp1" series Koni australian heavytrack noted above. You can also order this through Koni North America and it will be sourced from Holland. This is a twin tube shock rated for "zero lift" by Koni Australia. I believe it is the same price as the longer 82-2385/86 series noted above.
82-2385sp1 , 600 & 372
82-2386sp1 , 584 & 373
Note the dimensions and compare to the bilstein stockers rated to 50mm.
Here are the specs for the 88 series shocks for an 80 only from Koni Australia. Koni Australia has them specially built locally and is prepared to sell these direct into Canada on one off orders with permission from Koni-North America. You could try and buy them by contacting Koni Australia directly, but weight for the price...
88-1688, Max, 615 mm. Min. 363 mm.
88-1689, Max 612, Min 369
The price is ... Aus$642 per pair front, Aus$632 per pair rear! Plus shipping and any duties from Oz! Koni Australia notes that the special 88 series is designed for desert conditions because of problems with heat they had with landcruisers, particularly with the upper shock mount inside the engine compartment.
Koni Australia says no "regular" 88 series truck shock would work on an 80 series without valving and fitting changes. They also expressed confidence their shocks will outperform the OME shocks in all conditions. This is borne out by the respect konis get on Australian forums.
There aren't any longer Koni shocks available because company policy prevents them selling any shock that would stretch stock brakelines or other stock components. You have to go custom if you want bigger. Given the price of their best stock, I will leave that alone.
So folks, I think this now covers specs and prices for every possible shock available from Bilstein or Koni that is designed to fit an 80. There are plenty of eye/eye custom bilsteins out there.
I am thinking 8235/8236s for me...
I have more info on the Koni shocks including the elusive 88 series...
The $Can price for the 30 series heavytracks and 90 series Raid shocks noted above.
301427 C$118.26/per monotube
301427 C$118.26/per
905389 C$272.91/per twintube
905390 C$236.52/per
Plus C$40 freight charge. These shocks are sourced from Holland by Koni North America as a special order. According to Koni Australia these shocks are designed by Koni France. Koni Australia does not sell the 30 monotube series, preferring their 82 heavytrack twintube series line, but they do stock a "few" RAIDS. On an australian forum someone commented it is almost impossible to get koni retailers to give any details about the RAIDs which they do not seem to want to sell.
Here are the specs on the other "82 2385/86sp1" series Koni australian heavytrack noted above. You can also order this through Koni North America and it will be sourced from Holland. This is a twin tube shock rated for "zero lift" by Koni Australia. I believe it is the same price as the longer 82-2385/86 series noted above.
82-2385sp1 , 600 & 372
82-2386sp1 , 584 & 373
Note the dimensions and compare to the bilstein stockers rated to 50mm.
Here are the specs for the 88 series shocks for an 80 only from Koni Australia. Koni Australia has them specially built locally and is prepared to sell these direct into Canada on one off orders with permission from Koni-North America. You could try and buy them by contacting Koni Australia directly, but weight for the price...
88-1688, Max, 615 mm. Min. 363 mm.
88-1689, Max 612, Min 369
The price is ... Aus$642 per pair front, Aus$632 per pair rear! Plus shipping and any duties from Oz! Koni Australia notes that the special 88 series is designed for desert conditions because of problems with heat they had with landcruisers, particularly with the upper shock mount inside the engine compartment.
Koni Australia says no "regular" 88 series truck shock would work on an 80 series without valving and fitting changes. They also expressed confidence their shocks will outperform the OME shocks in all conditions. This is borne out by the respect konis get on Australian forums.
There aren't any longer Koni shocks available because company policy prevents them selling any shock that would stretch stock brakelines or other stock components. You have to go custom if you want bigger. Given the price of their best stock, I will leave that alone.
So folks, I think this now covers specs and prices for every possible shock available from Bilstein or Koni that is designed to fit an 80. There are plenty of eye/eye custom bilsteins out there.
I am thinking 8235/8236s for me...
Great post! Thanks for sharing the research. 
down and dirty question. I could use someone breaking this down for me barney style. If I were to run Bilstein shocks I can do "X" amount of lift... or if I did Koni shocks I could do "Y" amount of lift.. I know there might be some grey area with the use of spacers and stuff... but please explain it to me like I'm a 4-year old... arigato!
semlin
curmudgeon
- Thread starter
- #25
ok here are the options in summary form:
a. The cheapest option is the bilstein stock replacement monotubes at US$65 each. These same shocks are rated in Australia for up to a 50mm lift but not in north america so you should be ok on a medium/heavy lift but you might have warranty issues. Based on the lengths noted above you will give up one inch of length and some stroke compared to OME 73/74e shocks. However, the OME's may not be using all their length in a medium/heavy lift so you may not notice much change. Bilstein is the only shock in this list you can order and get right away. Monotube shocks are more vulnerable to damage offroad than twintubes.
b. The next cheapest option are Koni 30 series heavytrack shocks at $Can120 or maybe US$95. These are adjustable monotubes rated for no lift by Koni. They are, however, similar in length to the bilsteins so maybe you could use them for a 50mm lift. These shocks are designed by Koni France and are not sold by Koni Australia which has their own heavytrack line for the 80 series.
c. The 82 series Koni australia heavytracks are US$122 ea and US$ 114 each front and rear. These come in two sizes: no lift or 50mm lift. Koni North America does warranty the lift shocks for 50mm lift so these are the first shocks listed where you should have a warranty on a lifted truck. They are roughly the same dimensions as the OME 73/74E shocks and should work where they work. These shocks are twintube and adjustable and so should hold up better offroad.
d. The 88 series heavytrack Koni australia shocks can only be special ordered from koni australia and are Aus$321 each front (US$246), Aus$316 rear (US$243) plus shipping and any duty. They have roughly the same length as the 82 long shocks but are physically bigger being adapted from a heavy "bus" shock. They were developed by Koni Australia specifically to address outback use including problems with heat in desert conditions. Typical intended use includes high speed driving on washboard roads in hgh temps. These shocks seem to be the "ulitmate" 80 shock in australia.
e. The Koni 90 series RAID shocks for 50mm lift. C$272.91 front and C$236.52 rear (US $218 and US$189.16). These are roughly the same length as the ome73/74s. They are designed by Koni France for a 50mm lift and are sold as a heavy duty offroad shock by Koni. They are twintube adjustable and you can find info about design at koni4x4.com. The only mark against these shocks is that Koni Australia is reportedly unenthusiastic about selling them, which may be simply because they cut into their 88 series.
f. For big lifts there is the Koni rv/commercial 88 or 90 series. These are US$120 and US$165 each and are sold for motorhomes, trucks and ambulances. There is a link to a catalogue above showing many possibilities. Koni did suggest a combo listed above that could work with an 80 that would be longer than the OME "L" series shocks but you would need to work with Koni to determine how they would ride and whether the shock mounts would need modiciation.
e. Also for bigger lifts there are the bilstein custom series starting at 5100 series at $100 each all the way to 9100. The only issue with these is that they are eye/eye shocks while 80s need stud/stud front and stud/eye rears. You could use adaptors (which cost dough and force you to buy a shorter shock sacrificing travel) or you could work directly with Bilstein USA to see if they will customize the mountings for you.
First caveat, Bilstein and Koni rate some of their shocks for up to 50 mm of lift on an 80. This also appears to be the lift rating under which OME medium and heavy springs are sold in australia. We are used to referring to them as a 2.5" lift here, which is 63mm. I am assuming that the 50mm lift rating by the shock manufacturer means they will warranty them with the ome medium/heavies.
Second caveat, in order to buy the Bilsteins you can go surf the web. To buy the konis contact koni north america and special order from holland then wait 6 weeks at least, except for the 88 series where you must buy from koni australia direct.
third caveat, I am not a shock engineer so I can't tell you if any of these shocks will work on a lift over 50mm, but I notice that slee sells the OME L series shocks for its 6 inch lift. Those shocks measure as follows
N73L ........ 667 .......... 387 f
N74L ........ 667 .......... 387
That is only about 50mm/2 inches longer than the various koni 50mm rated shocks noted above, and about half an inch higher on full compression. This seems to make it likely that the Koni 50mm rated shocks would work on larger lifts. For example, you can use the OME 73/74s with J springs so that should be safe with the konis.
a. The cheapest option is the bilstein stock replacement monotubes at US$65 each. These same shocks are rated in Australia for up to a 50mm lift but not in north america so you should be ok on a medium/heavy lift but you might have warranty issues. Based on the lengths noted above you will give up one inch of length and some stroke compared to OME 73/74e shocks. However, the OME's may not be using all their length in a medium/heavy lift so you may not notice much change. Bilstein is the only shock in this list you can order and get right away. Monotube shocks are more vulnerable to damage offroad than twintubes.
b. The next cheapest option are Koni 30 series heavytrack shocks at $Can120 or maybe US$95. These are adjustable monotubes rated for no lift by Koni. They are, however, similar in length to the bilsteins so maybe you could use them for a 50mm lift. These shocks are designed by Koni France and are not sold by Koni Australia which has their own heavytrack line for the 80 series.
c. The 82 series Koni australia heavytracks are US$122 ea and US$ 114 each front and rear. These come in two sizes: no lift or 50mm lift. Koni North America does warranty the lift shocks for 50mm lift so these are the first shocks listed where you should have a warranty on a lifted truck. They are roughly the same dimensions as the OME 73/74E shocks and should work where they work. These shocks are twintube and adjustable and so should hold up better offroad.
d. The 88 series heavytrack Koni australia shocks can only be special ordered from koni australia and are Aus$321 each front (US$246), Aus$316 rear (US$243) plus shipping and any duty. They have roughly the same length as the 82 long shocks but are physically bigger being adapted from a heavy "bus" shock. They were developed by Koni Australia specifically to address outback use including problems with heat in desert conditions. Typical intended use includes high speed driving on washboard roads in hgh temps. These shocks seem to be the "ulitmate" 80 shock in australia.
e. The Koni 90 series RAID shocks for 50mm lift. C$272.91 front and C$236.52 rear (US $218 and US$189.16). These are roughly the same length as the ome73/74s. They are designed by Koni France for a 50mm lift and are sold as a heavy duty offroad shock by Koni. They are twintube adjustable and you can find info about design at koni4x4.com. The only mark against these shocks is that Koni Australia is reportedly unenthusiastic about selling them, which may be simply because they cut into their 88 series.
f. For big lifts there is the Koni rv/commercial 88 or 90 series. These are US$120 and US$165 each and are sold for motorhomes, trucks and ambulances. There is a link to a catalogue above showing many possibilities. Koni did suggest a combo listed above that could work with an 80 that would be longer than the OME "L" series shocks but you would need to work with Koni to determine how they would ride and whether the shock mounts would need modiciation.
e. Also for bigger lifts there are the bilstein custom series starting at 5100 series at $100 each all the way to 9100. The only issue with these is that they are eye/eye shocks while 80s need stud/stud front and stud/eye rears. You could use adaptors (which cost dough and force you to buy a shorter shock sacrificing travel) or you could work directly with Bilstein USA to see if they will customize the mountings for you.
First caveat, Bilstein and Koni rate some of their shocks for up to 50 mm of lift on an 80. This also appears to be the lift rating under which OME medium and heavy springs are sold in australia. We are used to referring to them as a 2.5" lift here, which is 63mm. I am assuming that the 50mm lift rating by the shock manufacturer means they will warranty them with the ome medium/heavies.
Second caveat, in order to buy the Bilsteins you can go surf the web. To buy the konis contact koni north america and special order from holland then wait 6 weeks at least, except for the 88 series where you must buy from koni australia direct.
third caveat, I am not a shock engineer so I can't tell you if any of these shocks will work on a lift over 50mm, but I notice that slee sells the OME L series shocks for its 6 inch lift. Those shocks measure as follows
N73L ........ 667 .......... 387 f
N74L ........ 667 .......... 387
That is only about 50mm/2 inches longer than the various koni 50mm rated shocks noted above, and about half an inch higher on full compression. This seems to make it likely that the Koni 50mm rated shocks would work on larger lifts. For example, you can use the OME 73/74s with J springs so that should be safe with the konis.
Semlin,
That was outstanding.. Thank you very much. I was seriously thinking Bilsteins and probably still am but the idea of a warranty and using Koni 82s are attractive.. not sure if it warrants an extra $200+... but piece of mind is always nice. I would definitely want to run it with an OME Med/Hvy lift..
Can ANYBODY out there speak about their own personal experience using Koni's in the "Washboards?" I heard the Bilstiens did very well.. and that was part of my reasoning..
That was outstanding.. Thank you very much. I was seriously thinking Bilsteins and probably still am but the idea of a warranty and using Koni 82s are attractive.. not sure if it warrants an extra $200+... but piece of mind is always nice. I would definitely want to run it with an OME Med/Hvy lift..
Can ANYBODY out there speak about their own personal experience using Koni's in the "Washboards?" I heard the Bilstiens did very well.. and that was part of my reasoning..
I also need shocks but have been to busy with other LC duties to get into it. Once I have a quiet Saturday I'm going to try and digest this thread. Looks pretty near a six pack in length.
Complete shock data like that with help for making buying decisions has been spotty here until now.
Nice work Semlin
I put in the rear bilstiens today, here is a little more info
They are only about 3/8" longer than stock,
Of the two upper bushings provided one was thicker, the install diagram Bilstein gave showed two equal sized rubber bushings, decided compression had more force than rebound so I put the thicker one below the mount plate, that added a little more.
Totaled out axle is 3/4" lower on extension compared to the OEM Lexus shocks, not much difference.
I was figuring that if I was really worried about the shorter length (than lifted shocks) then I could maybe later add spacers at least in the rear but there might be a problem with that, the #'s above say 8.3" of travel on the Bilstein rear, with shocks fully extended I measured ~9" from the top of the axle to the frame mounted bump stop so dropping the shock my cause it to become the up stop, not a good thing. If the shock is lowered the bump stop may have to be lowered also. Think I will probably be OK for now looks like the in coil bump stop stops it first, the frame one does not look like it has ever contacted, won’t know for sure until the spring is removed and I can play with the travel,
To answer something from earlier looks like the 80 uses every bit of its shock travel, not much excess to work with.
Might be pushing it with the OME 50mm/2-2.5” springs, travel may be limited. Whenever I put in lift I’ll cycle the axle with out springs and see if anything can be done to maximize what travel the bolt on Bilsteins (B46-1477 / B46-1478) will give.
Nice work Semlin
I put in the rear bilstiens today, here is a little more info
They are only about 3/8" longer than stock,
Of the two upper bushings provided one was thicker, the install diagram Bilstein gave showed two equal sized rubber bushings, decided compression had more force than rebound so I put the thicker one below the mount plate, that added a little more.
Totaled out axle is 3/4" lower on extension compared to the OEM Lexus shocks, not much difference.
I was figuring that if I was really worried about the shorter length (than lifted shocks) then I could maybe later add spacers at least in the rear but there might be a problem with that, the #'s above say 8.3" of travel on the Bilstein rear, with shocks fully extended I measured ~9" from the top of the axle to the frame mounted bump stop so dropping the shock my cause it to become the up stop, not a good thing. If the shock is lowered the bump stop may have to be lowered also. Think I will probably be OK for now looks like the in coil bump stop stops it first, the frame one does not look like it has ever contacted, won’t know for sure until the spring is removed and I can play with the travel,
To answer something from earlier looks like the 80 uses every bit of its shock travel, not much excess to work with.
Might be pushing it with the OME 50mm/2-2.5” springs, travel may be limited. Whenever I put in lift I’ll cycle the axle with out springs and see if anything can be done to maximize what travel the bolt on Bilsteins (B46-1477 / B46-1478) will give.
Put in the front bilsteins today, forgot to compare them to the OEM shocks but did get before and after extended axle to frame measurements, passenger side was 8 3/4 before 10 3/4 after, drivers side was 9 3/16 before, 11 3/16 after, so exactly two inches lower on extension,
so from above the OEM's are 22.4", the bilsteins are 23.3", for a difference of .9", I got 2" diffrence, where did the other 1.1" come from? Some of it is the taller bushings but not all, are the LX shocks shorter than LC? Or are the billy's longer than advertised? If the later how do they truly compare to OME's?
Been thinking about the rear, the shock is mounted at an angle from vertical, that gives more axle travel per inch of shock travel, may be able to lower the rear after all without the shock becoming the bump stop, when I do the lift I'll have the springs out so I can cycle the suspension and see what there is to work with.
Ride height went up about 1/2" from the pressure of the bilsteins, ride improved drastically in the control sense if not a luxury ride, but that was expected over 130K OEM LX shocks that were softer to start out with. feels much more controlled, before a large bump would create a big up and then almost bottom out, now there are no after effects, it becomes a single quick event. Body roll is also lessoned, interested to see if this will fix my wander on the freeway (have not got on the freeway with the fronts yet) , the rears alone reduced it slightly but not much.
so from above the OEM's are 22.4", the bilsteins are 23.3", for a difference of .9", I got 2" diffrence, where did the other 1.1" come from? Some of it is the taller bushings but not all, are the LX shocks shorter than LC? Or are the billy's longer than advertised? If the later how do they truly compare to OME's?
Been thinking about the rear, the shock is mounted at an angle from vertical, that gives more axle travel per inch of shock travel, may be able to lower the rear after all without the shock becoming the bump stop, when I do the lift I'll have the springs out so I can cycle the suspension and see what there is to work with.
Ride height went up about 1/2" from the pressure of the bilsteins, ride improved drastically in the control sense if not a luxury ride, but that was expected over 130K OEM LX shocks that were softer to start out with. feels much more controlled, before a large bump would create a big up and then almost bottom out, now there are no after effects, it becomes a single quick event. Body roll is also lessoned, interested to see if this will fix my wander on the freeway (have not got on the freeway with the fronts yet) , the rears alone reduced it slightly but not much.
26Jul2005 (UTC +8)
Did you ever figure this one out?
RavenTai said:
Did you ever figure this one out?
drexx said:
It has to be the larger bushings.
I got some Bilsteins for my 4-Runner that I haven't put on yet. Will let you know asap.
GM
GM
Raven, I replaced my original OEM shocks with Bilsteins as per their application table and it was a perfect fit. Removing the old ones was a bear because my friendly neighborhood mechanic fixed a rattling noise (the rubber bushings had crumbled away) by tightening the shock nuts all the way in, I had to destroy the nuts to remove. The Bilsteins ride very well.
santiagol said:
Are you running any kind of lift spring with the Bilsteins?
Great thread,
Well I just got thru putting Bilsteins on my 4-Runner front. They are fantastic. I also just replaced the OEM with OEM shocks on the 96' Cruiser. I think I should have put the Bilsteins on the front. The truck has 135K miles on it. It seems everybody thinks you should replace coil springs by that time too.
Comments? The ride was improved with the OEM shocks on the Cruiser, but could be better. So what you guys are saying I could use a Bilstein shock with the original springs, and then change out the springs later with a 2" Coil springs lift (OME) and still use the Bilsteins shocks that I changed out?
SS
Well I just got thru putting Bilsteins on my 4-Runner front. They are fantastic. I also just replaced the OEM with OEM shocks on the 96' Cruiser. I think I should have put the Bilsteins on the front. The truck has 135K miles on it. It seems everybody thinks you should replace coil springs by that time too.
Comments? The ride was improved with the OEM shocks on the Cruiser, but could be better. So what you guys are saying I could use a Bilstein shock with the original springs, and then change out the springs later with a 2" Coil springs lift (OME) and still use the Bilsteins shocks that I changed out?
SS
ttt
Ahhhhhhhhhh
two things here
You dont have our personal Aus part No for Bilstiens to suit 80 or 100
You dont have our custom bilstiens to suit 4" lift for 80 or 100
Bilstiens velocity controlled valving has a floating piston, so they are 20mm shorter stroke for the same length as other shocks, but the shock auto adjusts its valving dependent on piston speed, so you get the best shock fully loaded, empty, fast, or slow.
I used to use Koni, until i started using Bilstien 5 years ago.
two things here
You dont have our personal Aus part No for Bilstiens to suit 80 or 100
You dont have our custom bilstiens to suit 4" lift for 80 or 100
Bilstiens velocity controlled valving has a floating piston, so they are 20mm shorter stroke for the same length as other shocks, but the shock auto adjusts its valving dependent on piston speed, so you get the best shock fully loaded, empty, fast, or slow.
I used to use Koni, until i started using Bilstien 5 years ago.
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ATS,
If I do a lift it would only be a 2" lift. Without the lift could I put a set of Bilsteins on the front with original equipment springs, and then put a 2" lift on later, and keep the same Bilsteins?
SS
Bilsteins RULE.....
If I do a lift it would only be a 2" lift. Without the lift could I put a set of Bilsteins on the front with original equipment springs, and then put a 2" lift on later, and keep the same Bilsteins?
SS
Bilsteins RULE.....
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