Big Gay 2F Build Tech

[joeyg1973]

I happen to be rebuilding my 79 2F with TBI and HEI

Ok a couple of things:

1. It looks like a clown puked on your engine. Congrats!!
2. Throw out the GM computer it's ****, you can't tune it without crazy expensive software, you are not a GM engineer so you won't know how to tune it and of course it is definitely not tuned for your engine. Also you do not need a VSS to control a FI engine and for the life of me I have no clue why they have one.
3. Don't replace the injectors they are fine... trust me they are and new ones cost a good chunk of change.
4. Buy a Megasquirt II. MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * * ©2005 You can get one a built for about 500-600 with a relay board or you can build on yourself for about 150. It's not really that hard to solder together as assembly instructions are extensive.
5. Option 1) Trash the Toyota distributor except save the gear at the bottom. Find a any GM truck that had a straight 6. They made these up till 85 and they are everywhere. Get the HEI out of it. Have the machine shop lathe the lip on it flush with the shaft. Take the whole thing apart and buy a 7 pin HEI module, you can find it for $35 at the autoparts store. Have to find the right model year though because if you ask for the wrong year they will gladly sell you the same part for 150-200. Drill out the new holes for the larger 7 pin module and thread them. Drill another hole for the 3 new wires that the 7 pin needs and find a small grommet for the hole. Either tack weld the weights in place or make a plate. Remove the vacuum advance after marking where the reluctor ring is when the vacuum advance has no load on it. Chewing gum and duct tape something together to make the reluctor ring stay where it should, a screw into the distributor case from the relutor ring adjustment lever should work. Close up the hole where the vacuum advance used to be with an epoxy putty. NO JB WELD!! I used some stuff POR-15 sells since they are right down the road from me. Clean everything up. Put the whole thing back together minus the cap, put the Toyota gear on the bottom of shaft. There will be a nice groove right underneath where the lip used to be, put an O-Ring there. Find a big a** washer (technical term for it) that has an ID that will fit over the Dist housing shaft snug and an OD that isn't too crazy. If you can't find a washer give your machine shop the dimensions you need as it shouldn't cost much, if anything, for them to make it. Now put it into the 2F with the oil pump in place, make sure you catch the slot. Now put the washer/ring/new lip thingy down till it rest against the 2F nice and flat. Mush some more epoxy putty (I recommend the POR-15 stuff as it as good as steel when it is dry) around the the Dist body and washer making sure the Dist stays all the way down. Wait for the epoxy to dry. Remove the Dist and disassemble it. Clean up the epoxy with a file/dremel tool/whatever. Now for the most important part, paint it a big gay color! Reassemble it and put it in the block and you are all done.
5. Option 2) Trash the Toyota distributor. Call up DUI and get a 750 to 1000 dollar a** reaming for the exact same thing. This might work for you as it is keeping with the big gay theme.
6. Wire up the Megasquirt II, again not that hard as the documentation is extensive. Plus you can ask me for help as I have already done ALL of this.


On my old FJ-40 I had the 2F rebuilt with nothing fancy. Had a Webber 38, electric fan (it's possible you just need to do the homework), saginaw steering pump, CS130 Alternator, SOR headers, and stock Toyota dist. IIRC I was getting about 120 HP at the rear wheels. After I put in a 4 pin HEI dist I was around 140 HP at the rear wheels. The dist is what is making all the difference and it will purr like a kitten.

Now this time round on my new FJ-40 and a fresh rebuilt balanced engine I am looking to make somewhere between 170 and 200 HP at the rear wheels. Besides the Megasquirt II and the HEI here is what I plan to do to get this power.

1) 200 Amp 1-wire aftermarket GM alternator
2) Electric fan, need to do my homework again as I lost the old info when I sold my old FJ and I know that electric fans have gotten thinner and pump more CFM at lower amp draw now.
3) MR2 Electric Steering Pump. It's 2000 PSI max and does variable power assist based on vehicle speed. I need a VSS for this and I need to figure out a circuit board to make it all work. Some folks are already using them on the electric vehicle conversions and there is good info on them out there on the net.
4) MAF Tuned Headers. Equal length headers are optimal for any engine as it keeps the scavenging flow balanced across all the cylinders. Someone suggested running dual exhaust on the 2F. I would never do this as you would loose the scavenging effect you get from all 6 cylinders when you split them into 2 banks of 3. 2 pistons will have a drastic drop in scavenging flow when you do this. Unless you are running zoomies or have extremely short exhaust pipes you want to maximize the scavenging effect. That's why any performance V8 exhaust worth a darn has an H or X pipe so that you get good balanced scavenging flow.

Future mods I am considering due to the fact that I am running with the Megasquirt II.


1) Having the AFR adjust automatically up when I am cruising so that I can save more gas.
2) Distributorless ignition using a Ford EDIS-6.
3) E85
4) Custom intake manifold. Exhaust tubing and a welder and you too can have fun.
4) ON/OFF Supercharger. Yes, you read that right, there is a small eaton supercharger that went on a Mercedes that has an electric clutch on it. You can get on on Ebay for as little as 50 bucks.
5) Serpentine belt and pulleys, need to get my lathe setup in my new house though first.
6) Multi Displacement. I have an idea of how to do this in an unconventional way without electronically controlled hydraulic lifters, but I need to test my theory out first. I also need the EDIS trigger wheel in place first too so that I get the piston shutdown/startup timing right.

Ok enough about my absolutely crazy ideas and suggestions. I have a few questions.

1) Where are they suggesting you put the knock sensor on the 2F? I know harmonics play a big part in this decision and I decided to put mine on the intake manifold in the center. I want to know what others have done.
2) What the heck did you mean in an earlier post when you said "I'm also playing with the idea of running the intake though the dummy air vent that is on 76 cruisers Might give me a little cooler flow and since it has drains built into it I could just put some one way valves on the to prevent the 2f from sucking water in high water situations." ?
3) Anybody know if I can use any harmonic balancer that will fit? I ask this because I plan on making a serpentine pulley at some point. It doesn't make sense to use the old ugly rubber frisbee that is riveted to the pulley now and I really don't want to take the time to clean it up and paint it big gay colors. Of course I could just make a Harmonic Balancer with my lathe and mill, but I am concerned that it is more than just a flywheel.

Now let me answer for all of you the two questions that are currently in your heads.

1) I am single and therefore my middle name is "disposable income".
2) My project is almost all POR-15 Ford Blue paint with Duplicolor Gloss Black Engine Paint on the smaller parts where I got lazy and didn't feel like going through the ridiculous effort it takes to apply POR-15 paint. I am contemplating calling the project Smurf S*** Blue although I am not sold on that name and I am taking suggestions.

JoeyG

 

[Sputnik40]

Looks good Marshall - you need to get it finished sooner than later .

JoeyG.... I'm kinda a low tech sort, and all that "Megasquirt" plug advertising lost me. Why is it better? I've just got a reprogrammed prom in an old GM box - works pretty damn well and I've never wanted to bother plugging and playing to max out HP - I can run 80 MPH plus with 4.10 diffs on 37's - that's more than enough for me. Only issue I'd be curious if you can program out would be the commonly known FI weekness with an SM420 due to 1st to 2nd gear spacing?

 

[Trollhole]

Ok a couple of things:

1. It looks like a clown puked on your engine. Congrats!!
2. Throw out the GM computer it's ****, you can't tune it without crazy expensive software, you are not a GM engineer so you won't know how to tune it and of course it is definitely not tuned for your engine. Also you do not need a VSS to control a FI engine and for the life of me I have no clue why they have one.
3. Don't replace the injectors they are fine... trust me they are and new ones cost a good chunk of change.
4. Buy a Megasquirt II. MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * * ©2005 You can get one a built for about 500-600 with a relay board or you can build on yourself for about 150. It's not really that hard to solder together as assembly instructions are extensive.
5. Option 1) Trash the Toyota distributor except save the gear at the bottom. Find a any GM truck that had a straight 6. They made these up till 85 and they are everywhere. Get the HEI out of it. Have the machine shop lathe the lip on it flush with the shaft. Take the whole thing apart and buy a 7 pin HEI module, you can find it for $35 at the autoparts store. Have to find the right model year though because if you ask for the wrong year they will gladly sell you the same part for 150-200. Drill out the new holes for the larger 7 pin module and thread them. Drill another hole for the 3 new wires that the 7 pin needs and find a small grommet for the hole. Either tack weld the weights in place or make a plate. Remove the vacuum advance after marking where the reluctor ring is when the vacuum advance has no load on it. Chewing gum and duct tape something together to make the reluctor ring stay where it should, a screw into the distributor case from the relutor ring adjustment lever should work. Close up the hole where the vacuum advance used to be with an epoxy putty. NO JB WELD!! I used some stuff POR-15 sells since they are right down the road from me. Clean everything up. Put the whole thing back together minus the cap, put the Toyota gear on the bottom of shaft. There will be a nice groove right underneath where the lip used to be, put an O-Ring there. Find a big a** washer (technical term for it) that has an ID that will fit over the Dist housing shaft snug and an OD that isn't too crazy. If you can't find a washer give your machine shop the dimensions you need as it shouldn't cost much, if anything, for them to make it. Now put it into the 2F with the oil pump in place, make sure you catch the slot. Now put the washer/ring/new lip thingy down till it rest against the 2F nice and flat. Mush some more epoxy putty (I recommend the POR-15 stuff as it as good as steel when it is dry) around the the Dist body and washer making sure the Dist stays all the way down. Wait for the epoxy to dry. Remove the Dist and disassemble it. Clean up the epoxy with a file/dremel tool/whatever. Now for the most important part, paint it a big gay color! Reassemble it and put it in the block and you are all done.
5. Option 2) Trash the Toyota distributor. Call up DUI and get a 750 to 1000 dollar a** reaming for the exact same thing. This might work for you as it is keeping with the big gay theme.
6. Wire up the Megasquirt II, again not that hard as the documentation is extensive. Plus you can ask me for help as I have already done ALL of this.


On my old FJ-40 I had the 2F rebuilt with nothing fancy. Had a Webber 38, electric fan (it's possible you just need to do the homework), saginaw steering pump, CS130 Alternator, SOR headers, and stock Toyota dist. IIRC I was getting about 120 HP at the rear wheels. After I put in a 4 pin HEI dist I was around 140 HP at the rear wheels. The dist is what is making all the difference and it will purr like a kitten.

Now this time round on my new FJ-40 and a fresh rebuilt balanced engine I am looking to make somewhere between 170 and 200 HP at the rear wheels. Besides the Megasquirt II and the HEI here is what I plan to do to get this power.

1) 200 Amp 1-wire aftermarket GM alternator
2) Electric fan, need to do my homework again as I lost the old info when I sold my old FJ and I know that electric fans have gotten thinner and pump more CFM at lower amp draw now.
3) MR2 Electric Steering Pump. It's 2000 PSI max and does variable power assist based on vehicle speed. I need a VSS for this and I need to figure out a circuit board to make it all work. Some folks are already using them on the electric vehicle conversions and there is good info on them out there on the net.
4) MAF Tuned Headers. Equal length headers are optimal for any engine as it keeps the scavenging flow balanced across all the cylinders. Someone suggested running dual exhaust on the 2F. I would never do this as you would loose the scavenging effect you get from all 6 cylinders when you split them into 2 banks of 3. 2 pistons will have a drastic drop in scavenging flow when you do this. Unless you are running zoomies or have extremely short exhaust pipes you want to maximize the scavenging effect. That's why any performance V8 exhaust worth a darn has an H or X pipe so that you get good balanced scavenging flow.

Future mods I am considering due to the fact that I am running with the Megasquirt II.


1) Having the AFR adjust automatically up when I am cruising so that I can save more gas.
2) Distributorless ignition using a Ford EDIS-6.
3) E85
4) Custom intake manifold. Exhaust tubing and a welder and you too can have fun.
4) ON/OFF Supercharger. Yes, you read that right, there is a small eaton supercharger that went on a Mercedes that has an electric clutch on it. You can get on on Ebay for as little as 50 bucks.
5) Serpentine belt and pulleys, need to get my lathe setup in my new house though first.
6) Multi Displacement. I have an idea of how to do this in an unconventional way without electronically controlled hydraulic lifters, but I need to test my theory out first. I also need the EDIS trigger wheel in place first too so that I get the piston shutdown/startup timing right.

Ok enough about my absolutely crazy ideas and suggestions. I have a few questions.

1) Where are they suggesting you put the knock sensor on the 2F? I know harmonics play a big part in this decision and I decided to put mine on the intake manifold in the center. I want to know what others have done.
2) What the heck did you mean in an earlier post when you said "I'm also playing with the idea of running the intake though the dummy air vent that is on 76 cruisers Might give me a little cooler flow and since it has drains built into it I could just put some one way valves on the to prevent the 2f from sucking water in high water situations." ?
3) Anybody know if I can use any harmonic balancer that will fit? I ask this because I plan on making a serpentine pulley at some point. It doesn't make sense to use the old ugly rubber frisbee that is riveted to the pulley now and I really don't want to take the time to clean it up and paint it big gay colors. Of course I could just make a Harmonic Balancer with my lathe and mill, but I am concerned that it is more than just a flywheel.

Now let me answer for all of you the two questions that are currently in your heads.

1) I am single and therefore my middle name is "disposable income".
2) My project is almost all POR-15 Ford Blue paint with Duplicolor Gloss Black Engine Paint on the smaller parts where I got lazy and didn't feel like going through the ridiculous effort it takes to apply POR-15 paint. I am contemplating calling the project Smurf S*** Blue although I am not sold on that name and I am taking suggestions.

JoeyG

1. Thanks but no clowns were involved in this gayness
2. It has taken me 4 months just to get this far. My ecu is programmed for a 2f from a guy who has done a hell of a lot more of them than I. He said if it didn't run right he would reprogram it until it did. As I'm new territory for him with the RV cam.
3. I have no idea how many miles are on the original ones. They are like 50 dollars for a set of balanced ones. Good insurance knowing your not gonna run lean and burn something at 5000 rpm.
4. Mega Squirt is probably an option for some. But I spent 400 dollars on a wiring harness so I could just plug and play. Also there is a reason why people the GM computer over the megasquirt. Or else they would be selling them.
5. Not throwing out the FJ60 Distributor. Considering I'm not using the vac advance or the ignighter and only using the body and trigger with the same components as a hei distributor I don't see why I would switch. Others have done it with success. Plus bubble cum and duct tape are redneck not gay. Oh and DUI distributors already modified for the ECU are around 499.
6. Not plug and play.

If you would have read all my post you would have found out I'm not running a vss or a knock sensor. My theory. How in the world can a knock sensor know when a 2f is actually knocking? It makes so much other noises and only confuses the knock sensor.


I don't know you nor does anyone else since this is your first post newbie
The rest of the stuff you posted needs to go in a thead of your own. Unless you like being gay. And post some pictures for us to see.

 

[jfz80]

You are going to mirror the inside of the hood, right? to show off the gayness!

lookin good Marshall, maybe i should have read this before i picked up the 2f for the pig.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

You are going to mirror the inside of the hood, right? to show off the gayness!

lookin good Marshall, maybe i should have read this before i picked up the 2f for the pig.

I think he intends doing away with the hood all together

 

[BELMONT148]

Clear poly-carbonate hood with ultra gay stickers strategically placed as to spread the gayness into the rest of the truck. I vote to put KC lights on the windshield with these covers.

 

[Sputnik40]

1. Thanks but no clowns were involved in this gayness.

I thought that was a good analogy (note the anal pun here)

5. Not throwing out the FJ60 Distributor.

I'm pretty sure Mike M. uses an FJ60 dizzy and his runs great (after dumping the projection krap).

It makes so much other noises and only confuses the knock sensor.

I have the knock sensor - not sure if it does anything? I can't use the VSS yet as I've never gotten a speedo cable to work with my AA adaptor pushing the t-case back. Curious - as it might help with low speed stuff?

The KC covers and mirrored or clean hood are a must - damn funny - this thread really is covering it all - bad considering you spelled "gum" as "cum" in your post -.

 

[BosBok]

Damn this is a nice build to follow, a pity about the technicolour yawn all over the engine but at least is not all red or something

So Marshall, when's it gonna run?

 

[joeyg1973]

Big Gay Jersey Boy

1. Thanks but no clowns were involved in this gayness
2. It has taken me 4 months just to get this far. My ecu is programmed for a 2f from a guy who has done a hell of a lot more of them than I. He said if it didn't run right he would reprogram it until it did. As I'm new territory for him with the RV cam.
3. I have no idea how many miles are on the original ones. They are like 50 dollars for a set of balanced ones. Good insurance knowing your not gonna run lean and burn something at 5000 rpm.
4. Mega Squirt is probably an option for some. But I spent 400 dollars on a wiring harness so I could just plug and play. Also there is a reason why people the GM computer over the megasquirt. Or else they would be selling them.
5. Not throwing out the FJ60 Distributor. Considering I'm not using the vac advance or the ignighter and only using the body and trigger with the same components as a hei distributor I don't see why I would switch. Others have done it with success. Plus bubble cum and duct tape are redneck not gay. Oh and DUI distributors already modified for the ECU are around 499.
6. Not plug and play.

If you would have read all my post you would have found out I'm not running a vss or a knock sensor. My theory. Have in the worl can a knock sensor know when a 2f is actually knocking? It makes so much other noises and only confuses the knock sensor.


I don't know you nor does anyone else since this is your first post newbie
The rest of the stuff you posted needs to go in a thead of your own. Unless you like being gay. And post some pictures for us to see.

Statements:

1) I should have pointed out up front that I grew up and live in NJ about 20 miles outside of NYC. Sarcasm, being blunt, and being the standard bearer of the English language are the birth rights of Jersey Boys like me.
2) I in no way meant this as flame bait, so please accept my apologies.
3) If you don't accept my apologies. FU (Take offense to that? See item 1. )
4) These are all my not so humble opinions, and much like an a**hole, everybody has one. (Take offense to that? See item 1. )

Responses to your list of items:

1) What if it was a big gay FAAAAABUUULOUSSS clown that did the ralphing?
2) Reasons I chose MS over GM:

a)I work in computers in and know the huge advantages of community supported free open source software. I chose the MS because it is an open platform with a huge amount of community support so if anything goes wrong and I can't figure it out, I can find my answers online. If I want to modify it like many many others have and I need help, I can find my answers online. The more people that have an MS on a 2F means there is a greater chance that someone has run into your problem before and already has a solution. Remember where you got your info for the fuel lines? Well that is a well known MS resource website, you already have benefited from the knowledge of the MS community already. Here is the website with the words MEGASQUIRT written across the top. MegaSquirt I don't know why you didn't include the link to the website as it is really great resource in general. The only reason to keep that website to yourself is if you see a profit in it for yourself you you don't tell others about it. I HIGHLY doubt this is the case. However, I am not saying, I am just saying.
The GM on the other hand is a closed platform and is the knowledge of only a few folks. Something goes wrong with your GM, you have to rely on the guy who did your programing. Guy who did your programing wants to charge you, got hit by a bus, abducted by aliens, is too busy to help? Well you are SOL. Want to use a modern distributorless ignition? Want to do any mods to your engine that require changes to the GM computer? You are SOL unless one of the few folks with the right knowledge out there can see a profit in it.
b) I really like learning new things as I can then build on that knowledge to then do bigger and better things.
c) If I get stuck on the trail because of something wrong with my wiring or my MS that I have intricate knowledge of, I can break out the multimeter and plug in my laptop to see what is wrong, pinpoint the issue quickly, and hopefully fix it right there. Your check engine light comes on and you don't have a fancy smancy GM Diag computer and can't figure out what the flashing GM morse code is telling you is wrong? SOL. You do have cheap GM Diag device and you still can't tell what is wrong because you don't have intricate knowledge of the ECU and all it is telling you is that there a "sensor" that is bad? SOL and it is going to cost you to have someone tow you off the trail and then figure it out.
d) I wanted to do a whole Brooklyn bridge analogy here but I am lazy and don't feel like typing that much. "Caveat emptor" my friend. Right now you are a profit for the guy you are buying your ECU programing from as you have something he wants. What happens if it is still not working on the 3-4th try and he can't get it right? SOL because you are now taking up his time and are a cost. I am sure that whomever you are using for your ECU programming is on the up and up, but we have all been burned and unless a detailed agreement CYA in writing (emails work nicely here), you got nothing. I am not saying, I am just saying. If something is not right on the 3-4th try with my MS I can just upload my info to the community and they can all diagnose it and I don't have to send out my computer each time and wait for it to get back.
​

3) Good point, I apparently am looking at the wrong source for my injectors. What resource are you using?
4) I bet if you add it all matching the same setup I am willing to bet you that your GM FI project is going to cost more than my MS FI project and you are not including the cost of the ECU programing. I am am guessing that given the cost of the TBI wiring harness you bought, you got a Painless. I was thinking about going that route, but after doing some research I decided I would rather spend that cash elswhere. Wiring harnesses are not that hard to make on your own to tell you the truth. If you can rewire an LC with a Painless wiring harness you can make your own TBI harness. I bought a wire bundle that is selling for the MS with all the wires labeled already, it cost 12 bucks. Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products - DIYAutoTune.com Mine was really easy to make because I have the community as a resource. Here is the diagram on how to wire up the MS II v3 board that I am using. Wiring and Sensors Regarding your statement that "...there is a reason why people the GM computer over the megasquirt." ... Hmmm... Hmmm... *thinking*... *jeopardy music* hmmm... *thinking* hmmm... *sudden pop sound as smoke pours out my ears*... OK I give, what is the reason? ;p I would guess that it is because of a lack of knowledge about the MS in the LC community. Heck, why are more people not using the Holley/Painless/Company X fuel injection system for that matter? Why do people choose one thing over another in any matter? I have been looking into FI for about 4 - 5 years now the MS was only on it's first revision and the community wasn't as vibrant as it is now. The GM ECU was the first place I looked but it was way too cost prohibitive at the time. Up and Over and Downey were selling a complete system for 4-5 grand. This has come down a lot because there is more competition from others that know how to program the GM ECU and want to make a profit from the LC crowd. Once they can't make a decent profit from the LC crowd anymore and you need support, SOL.
5) Please read section "Statements" item 4. 499 is still an a** reaming over free99. Also chewing gum and duck/redneck is just the expression I used. I would expect any cruiser head to make it a clean safe mod. Leaving the vacuum advance there disconnected is actually Ghetto Fabulous and definitely not gay. Don't agree with this? Again please read section "Statements" item 4.
6) From my experience anything that is called plug and pray is not. If you truly wanted it to be plug and pray you would have just paid someone to do everything soup to nuts and not get your hands dirty. I know this about the majority of cruiser heads most can't afford or want to go the plug and pray route. One of the big reasons they are cruiser heads is because they get to turn a wrench and learn something through experience and not go the plug and pray route. There really is no practical reason why a cruiser head does what he does, and if you need to ask why, I can't explain it to you. It's why I applaud and get the reason why you have painted your engine big gay colors. It's not my personal choice, but you will never have to explain to me why you did it.

I did read all of this thread... and let me tell you it is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really LONG. It was a good deal past midnight when I finished the post and I was sleepy. Thank you for correcting me and please accept my apologies for my error. Please read section "Statements" item 3. If I were you though, I would rethink the knock sensor. The reason you should reconsider it is because you are balancing the whole bottom end which should eliminate a good deal of noise and vibration, a knock has a very distinct harmonic resonance that the sensor is tuned to listen for, and you intend to rev this engine up to 5000-5500. It's relatively cheap protection given how much you are already investing. Knock is very bad and high octane gas is just not worth the price. With the MS I also get a plus, much like the squelch knob on a CB, I can tune out the background noise.

It is true and you everybody else here don't know me from Adam, but the same can be said about the guy you are buy your ECU programing from. I used to be on the LCML years ago when I was in Atlanta and I was also part of the Georgia Cruisers. If you know any of them and they were in the club at the same time I was they should remember the only loud mouthed Jersey boy in the crowd. I took my FJ-40 from a rolling rust pile to a very mechanically and electrically sound FJ. The guy in the club who bought my 72 rattle can flat black FJ got a steal because I was looking to move back to NJ soon and I wanted it to go to a good home. Pretty sure it is still running around somewhere.

You are correct about being in it's own post and I am in no way trying to steal your thunder, however I would take that statement one further in that there really needs to be a separate forum for Cruiser engine power ups that can consolidate all this info. I posted to your post because it is very close to what I am doing as well.

...well that and I like being gay. EVERYBODY RUMBA!!!!

I will post some pictures, but I need to buy a house and unpack everything from storage first. If there is interest from the peanut gallery I can post all my cruiser related links that I have found over the years. It's a lot of good FI and Electrical resources with a bunch of other random cruiser related stuff. So, would anybody be interested in that info?

So can you help me out with my first 2 questions at least?

Where is your guy suggesting that you put the knock sensor? I am really contemplating moving it to the block away from the noisy head but I want to get the best spot. Drilling and tapping my block is not something I want to do without a good deal of thought, research, and advice.

What the heck did you mean in an earlier post when you said "I'm also playing with the idea of running the intake though the dummy air vent that is on 76 cruisers Might give me a little cooler flow and since it has drains built into it I could just put some one way valves on the to prevent the 2f from sucking water in high water situations." ?

 

[joeyg1973]

Looks good Marshall - you need to get it finished sooner than later .

JoeyG.... I'm kinda a low tech sort, and all that "Megasquirt" plug advertising lost me. Why is it better? I've just got a reprogrammed prom in an old GM box - works pretty damn well and I've never wanted to bother plugging and playing to max out HP - I can run 80 MPH plus with 4.10 diffs on 37's - that's more than enough for me. Only issue I'd be curious if you can program out would be the commonly known FI weekness with an SM420 due to 1st to 2nd gear spacing?

This issue is exactly why I skipped on the GM ECU. Nobody that can fix this particular problem if it is possible to do in the GM ECU is going to help you unless they can make money on it.

I don't know anything about the FI weakness related to the SM420 you mention. Can you explain it to me or point me somewhere that I can learn what it is? I can then look around for an answer for you once I know the problem. If you want you could also just skip the middle man (me) and go right to the MS community and ask the question there. MegaSquirt® EFI by Bowling and Grippo

 

[BELMONT148]

I think he is talking about this air vent.

 

[Teebag]

I vote to put KC lights on the windshield with these covers.

Wiith one slight change

 

[joeyg1973]

I think he is talking about this air vent.

That would be a SWEET idea. Looks like will be doing that now myself.

 

[Trollhole]

Statements:

1) I should have pointed out up front that I grew up and live in NJ about 20 miles outside of NYC. Sarcasm, being blunt, and being the standard bearer of the English language are the birth rights of Jersey Boys like me.
2) I in no way meant this as flame bait, so please accept my apologies.
3) If you don't accept my apologies. FU (Take offense to that? See item 1. )
4) These are all my not so humble opinions, and much like an a**hole, everybody has one. (Take offense to that? See item 1. )

Responses to your list of items:

1) What if it was a big gay FAAAAABUUULOUSSS clown that did the ralphing?
2) Reasons I chose MS over GM:

a)I work in computers in and know the huge advantages of community supported free open source software. I chose the MS because it is an open platform with a huge amount of community support so if anything goes wrong and I can't figure it out, I can find my answers online. If I want to modify it like many many others have and I need help, I can find my answers online. The more people that have an MS on a 2F means there is a greater chance that someone has run into your problem before and already has a solution. Remember where you got your info for the fuel lines? Well that is a well known MS resource website, you already have benefited from the knowledge of the MS community already. Here is the website with the words MEGASQUIRT written across the top. MegaSquirt I don't know why you didn't include the link to the website as it is really great resource in general. The only reason to keep that website to yourself is if you see a profit in it for yourself you you don't tell others about it. I HIGHLY doubt this is the case. However, I am not saying, I am just saying.
The GM on the other hand is a closed platform and is the knowledge of only a few folks. Something goes wrong with your GM, you have to rely on the guy who did your programing. Guy who did your programing wants to charge you, got hit by a bus, abducted by aliens, is too busy to help? Well you are SOL. Want to use a modern distributorless ignition? Want to do any mods to your engine that require changes to the GM computer? You are SOL unless one of the few folks with the right knowledge out there can see a profit in it.
b) I really like learning new things as I can then build on that knowledge to then do bigger and better things.
c) If I get stuck on the trail because of something wrong with my wiring or my MS that I have intricate knowledge of, I can break out the multimeter and plug in my laptop to see what is wrong, pinpoint the issue quickly, and hopefully fix it right there. Your check engine light comes on and you don't have a fancy smancy GM Diag computer and can't figure out what the flashing GM morse code is telling you is wrong? SOL. You do have cheap GM Diag device and you still can't tell what is wrong because you don't have intricate knowledge of the ECU and all it is telling you is that there a "sensor" that is bad? SOL and it is going to cost you to have someone tow you off the trail and then figure it out.
d) I wanted to do a whole Brooklyn bridge analogy here but I am lazy and don't feel like typing that much. "Caveat emptor" my friend. Right now you are a profit for the guy you are buying your ECU programing from as you have something he wants. What happens if it is still not working on the 3-4th try and he can't get it right? SOL because you are now taking up his time and are a cost. I am sure that whomever you are using for your ECU programming is on the up and up, but we have all been burned and unless a detailed agreement CYA in writing (emails work nicely here), you got nothing. I am not saying, I am just saying. If something is not right on the 3-4th try with my MS I can just upload my info to the community and they can all diagnose it and I don't have to send out my computer each time and wait for it to get back.
​

3) Good point, I apparently am looking at the wrong source for my injectors. What resource are you using?
4) I bet if you add it all matching the same setup I am willing to bet you that your GM FI project is going to cost more than my MS FI project and you are not including the cost of the ECU programing. I am am guessing that given the cost of the TBI wiring harness you bought, you got a Painless. I was thinking about going that route, but after doing some research I decided I would rather spend that cash elswhere. Wiring harnesses are not that hard to make on your own to tell you the truth. If you can rewire an LC with a Painless wiring harness you can make your own TBI harness. I bought a wire bundle that is selling for the MS with all the wires labeled already, it cost 12 bucks. Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products - DIYAutoTune.com Mine was really easy to make because I have the community as a resource. Here is the diagram on how to wire up the MS II v3 board that I am using. Wiring and Sensors Regarding your statement that "...there is a reason why people the GM computer over the megasquirt." ... Hmmm... Hmmm... *thinking*... *jeopardy music* hmmm... *thinking* hmmm... *sudden pop sound as smoke pours out my ears*... OK I give, what is the reason? ;p I would guess that it is because of a lack of knowledge about the MS in the LC community. Heck, why are more people not using the Holley/Painless/Company X fuel injection system for that matter? Why do people choose one thing over another in any matter? I have been looking into FI for about 4 - 5 years now the MS was only on it's first revision and the community wasn't as vibrant as it is now. The GM ECU was the first place I looked but it was way too cost prohibitive at the time. Up and Over and Downey were selling a complete system for 4-5 grand. This has come down a lot because there is more competition from others that know how to program the GM ECU and want to make a profit from the LC crowd. Once they can't make a decent profit from the LC crowd anymore and you need support, SOL.
5) Please read section "Statements" item 4. 499 is still an a** reaming over free99. Also chewing gum and duck/redneck is just the expression I used. I would expect any cruiser head to make it a clean safe mod. Leaving the vacuum advance there disconnected is actually Ghetto Fabulous and definitely not gay. Don't agree with this? Again please read section "Statements" item 4.
6) From my experience anything that is called plug and pray is not. If you truly wanted it to be plug and pray you would have just paid someone to do everything soup to nuts and not get your hands dirty. I know this about the majority of cruiser heads most can't afford or want to go the plug and pray route. One of the big reasons they are cruiser heads is because they get to turn a wrench and learn something through experience and not go the plug and pray route. There really is no practical reason why a cruiser head does what he does, and if you need to ask why, I can't explain it to you. It's why I applaud and get the reason why you have painted your engine big gay colors. It's not my personal choice, but you will never have to explain to me why you did it.

I did read all of this thread... and let me tell you it is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really LONG. It was a good deal past midnight when I finished the post and I was sleepy. Thank you for correcting me and please accept my apologies for my error. Please read section "Statements" item 3. If I were you though, I would rethink the knock sensor. The reason you should reconsider it is because you are balancing the whole bottom end which should eliminate a good deal of noise and vibration, a knock has a very distinct harmonic resonance that the sensor is tuned to listen for, and you intend to rev this engine up to 5000-5500. It's relatively cheap protection given how much you are already investing. Knock is very bad and high octane gas is just not worth the price. With the MS I also get a plus, much like the squelch knob on a CB, I can tune out the background noise.

It is true and you everybody else here don't know me from Adam, but the same can be said about the guy you are buy your ECU programing from. I used to be on the LCML years ago when I was in Atlanta and I was also part of the Georgia Cruisers. If you know any of them and they were in the club at the same time I was they should remember the only loud mouthed Jersey boy in the crowd. I took my FJ-40 from a rolling rust pile to a very mechanically and electrically sound FJ. The guy in the club who bought my 72 rattle can flat black FJ got a steal because I was looking to move back to NJ soon and I wanted it to go to a good home. Pretty sure it is still running around somewhere.

You are correct about being in it's own post and I am in no way trying to steal your thunder, however I would take that statement one further in that there really needs to be a separate forum for Cruiser engine power ups that can consolidate all this info. I posted to your post because it is very close to what I am doing as well.

...well that and I like being gay. EVERYBODY RUMBA!!!!

I will post some pictures, but I need to buy a house and unpack everything from storage first. If there is interest from the peanut gallery I can post all my cruiser related links that I have found over the years. It's a lot of good FI and Electrical resources with a bunch of other random cruiser related stuff. So, would anybody be interested in that info?

So can you help me out with my first 2 questions at least?

Where is your guy suggesting that you put the knock sensor? I am really contemplating moving it to the block away from the noisy head but I want to get the best spot. Drilling and tapping my block is not something I want to do without a good deal of thought, research, and advice.

What the heck did you mean in an earlier post when you said "I'm also playing with the idea of running the intake though the dummy air vent that is on 76 cruisers Might give me a little cooler flow and since it has drains built into it I could just put some one way valves on the to prevent the 2f from sucking water in high water situations." ?

You do realize you used the word "I" 73 times?

 

[Sputnik40]

The "Gaylighter" is hilarious...

Marshall - after seeing the vent you're thinking about - doesn't look like a good idea? I had thought about running mine into the back of the glovebox - but that's where I keep the computer - would be a kool excuse to fab up a killer logo to cut out of the glovebox door for air intake. While I've always wanted one of those kool ARB snorkels - my wheeling style tells me it would get ripped off in a heartbeat .

Also - I'm gonna be stoked to see what difference the RV cam makes - my rebuild was just a .020 bore with the DUI and FI - if you're running a cam and shaved head - it's gonna smoke!

Joey G. - Another warm Mud welcome . If you can take it, you're more than welcome to dish it! The SM420 problem is due to the wide spacing between 2nd and 3rd (I honestly forget right now). You have to rev out 2nd to a higher RPM in order to get any torque/hp (for lack of a better description) out of 3rd gear, otherwise it lugs (lower diff gears help, but not that much). This has been a well documented problem, since way back in the day when Mike Smythe (Spaceghost) and others were breaking ground on FI. I think the route you're going would be the most viable - but like I said - I like keeping it simple. I spend all my time chasing women, working, fishing, surfing, working on the house, Land Cruiser, Land Rover(s), or the boat, spending time with my 16 year old, and drinking beer with friends (and chasing women) - I don't have time to toy with computers and the more I age - the more I think I like Ludditism . If you are successful, and want to start a thread on this - I'd consider swapping someday when someone maps (no pun) the best and cheapest way to go MS.

Till then - it runs sideways and upside down, so no complaints!

Finally - nice to meet someone who types waaaaay more than me!

 

[joeyg1973]

You do realize you used the word "I" 73 times?

FU (Take offense to that? See Item 1. )

Now answer my dang knock sensor placement question already. *Shiesh*

 

[Trollhole]

Okay let's answer some questions and lay to rest the Macho Megasquirt.

GM has been using this same computer for what over 10 years? They are dirt cheap. If it goes bad I know there is an autoparts house with one in my hand in 24hr's maybe right then and there. GM poured a lot more hr's in making this computer what it is than what the MS community can accomplish right now as far as reliabliy. There are what 500,000 GM computers of this type out there? Granted the MS has a lot more functionality. I have no problem with putting together a CB. But what I don't have is time. I don't want to sit down and screw with a CB when I have a motor that needs to be put back together and some gayness yet to be done. My garage looks like this.

Would you want to build a CB in there? Oh and the 55 and big gay are in there now. Dining room is taken up with my reproduction parts business. And would you really build a CB with a 20month old child around. Resisters and s*** would be in the dogfood bowl or in the toilet. My wife and child own the rest of the house. I have a 2f that needs to be built, a 55 that needs to be painted, an 80 that needs the front axle rebuilt, a freeking huge landcruiser club to help run, a million diapers to change and to top it all off my battery is dead on my lawnmower and it doesn't have a pullstart and some bastards borrowed my jumper cables and battery charger.

SO you see it was a hell of a lot easier to spend 5 minutes placing an order for the fuel injection and saving me being a bald headed man for a few years more.

I have a couple of friends with the same AFI Affordable Fuel Injection - Affordable Fuel Injection system I have with no issues. And a few others with almost the same setup. None that I know have a MS.

And don't worry once I have a few less project I can assure you that learning how to flash a GM computer will be on the list as well as learning how to do a MS since I have a 2f coming out of the cruiser as well as an entire 3fe head that wants to be mated with it.

What I would do is start a MS thread. I'd be willing to help in any way. I'm always up for something different and to learn something new.

As far as Knock sensor most people attach it to a plate where the fuel pump used to be. Downey and MAF sell it.


And yes I'm toying with running a plenum from the fresh air intake below the windshield to the TBI Since it's only use is to catch s*** from birds that fly over.

 

[joeyg1973]

Okay let's answer some questions and lay to rest the Macho Megasquirt.

GM has been using this same computer for what over 10 years? They are dirt cheap. If it goes bad I know there is an autoparts house with one in my hand in 24hr's maybe right then and there. GM poured a lot more hr's in making this computer what it is than what the MS community can accomplish right now as far as reliabliy. There are what 500,000 GM computers of this type out there? Granted the MS has a lot more functionality. I have no problem with putting together a CB. But what I don't have is time. I don't want to sit down and screw with a CB when I have a motor that needs to be put back together and some gayness yet to be done. My garage looks like this.

Would you want to build a CB in there? Oh and the 55 and big gay are in there now. Dining room is taken up with my reproduction parts business. And would you really build a CB with a 20month old child around. Resisters and **** would be in the dogfood bowl or in the toilet. My wife and child own the rest of the house. I have a 2f that needs to be built, a 55 that needs to be painted, an 80 that needs the front axle rebuilt, a freeking huge landcruiser club to help run, a million diapers to change and to top it all off my battery is dead on my lawnmower and it doesn't have a pullstart and some bastards borrowed my jumper cables and battery charger.

SO you see it was a hell of a lot easier to spend 5 minutes placing an order for the fuel injection and saving be being a bald headed man for a few years more.

I have a couple of friends with the same AFI Affordable Fuel Injection - Affordable Fuel Injection system I have with no issues. And a few others with almost the same setup. None that I know have a MS.

And don't worry once I have a few less project I can assure you that learning how to flash a GM computer will be on the list as well as learning how to do a MS since I have a 2f coming out of the cruiser as well as an entire 3fe head that wants to be mated with it.

What I would do is start a MS thread. I'd be willing to help in any way. I'm always up for something different and to learn something new.

As far as Knock sensor most people attach it to a plate where the fuel pump used to be. Downey and MAF sell it.


And yes I'm toying with running a plenum from the fresh air intake below the windshield to the TBI Since it's only use is to catch **** from birds that fly over.

Dude seriously, I don't know how you managed to get a picture of my garage, but that is very impressive and voodoo magic scary.

Yeap I got to give it to you. You win, one's time is something that you can't put a price on.

I am however more interested in getting another forum entirely for FI stuff and another one for engine building. "40- & 55-Series Tech Questions and discussion for the 25 - 40 - 45 - 55/56 - and related-series Cruisers" is just too big a generalization.

 

[joeyg1973]

Thought in a new thread

The "Gaylighter" is hilarious...

Marshall - after seeing the vent you're thinking about - doesn't look like a good idea? I had thought about running mine into the back of the glovebox - but that's where I keep the computer - would be a kool excuse to fab up a killer logo to cut out of the glovebox door for air intake. While I've always wanted one of those kool ARB snorkels - my wheeling style tells me it would get ripped off in a heartbeat .

Also - I'm gonna be stoked to see what difference the RV cam makes - my rebuild was just a .020 bore with the DUI and FI - if you're running a cam and shaved head - it's gonna smoke!

Joey G. - Another warm Mud welcome . If you can take it, you're more than welcome to dish it! The SM420 problem is due to the wide spacing between 2nd and 3rd (I honestly forget right now). You have to rev out 2nd to a higher RPM in order to get any torque/hp (for lack of a better description) out of 3rd gear, otherwise it lugs (lower diff gears help, but not that much). This has been a well documented problem, since way back in the day when Mike Smythe (Spaceghost) and others were breaking ground on FI. I think the route you're going would be the most viable - but like I said - I like keeping it simple. I spend all my time chasing women, working, fishing, surfing, working on the house, Land Cruiser, Land Rover(s), or the boat, spending time with my 16 year old, and drinking beer with friends (and chasing women) - I don't have time to toy with computers and the more I age - the more I think I like Ludditism . If you are successful, and want to start a thread on this - I'd consider swapping someday when someone maps (no pun) the best and cheapest way to go MS.

Till then - it runs sideways and upside down, so no complaints!

Finally - nice to meet someone who types waaaaay more than me!

Sputnik40, I started a new thread with my thoughts here for this specific problem.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/196305-fi-sm420.html

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Don't worry once I have a few less project I can assure you that learning how to flash a GM computer will be on the list as well as learning how to do a MS since I have a 2f coming out of the cruiser as well as an entire 3fe head that wants to be mated with it.

This may help

You may have read it, The Mule and NO Mega Suirt

As for your garage I now fully understand why the Gay paint work, it's the only way you can find the parts in there