Big Fuel Tank

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My plan is to fit an aux tank above the spare wheel, perhaps 25 litres (have to work it out with dimensions), would like a dual fill nozzle or may divert the OE fill to the extra tank and gravity down to the OE tank. I have the overhead console with the altimeter and fuel gauge, I would be looking for a simple sender to work the overhead fuel level gauge, I would have the two fuel gauges reading at the same time.

Any reason for NOT doing it that way as custom fuel tanks with simple connections seem cheap enough, in particular as the car is diesel it should be no problem?

If anyone is interested the older XJ Jaguars with were fitted with twin tanks but only the one high pressure pump, simple changeover feed/return valves were used, just the click of one switch changed not only the tank being used but also the feed for the fuel gauge, this is an idea for those who had mentioned about the fuel safety 'cut off' point made earlier. I had many years with Jaguars and the system was very reliable if you used decent quality components.

Anyone have an idea how the OE console gauge works on Land Cruisers? It does not appear to be the typical earth return unit but seems to be a stepper motor design?

regards

Dave
 
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Ok, Im gathering a few of them. Easiest way is to just chuck them on ebay for a set price (average them out for coast of all). Then delivery will be easily seen for all parts of the globe.
 
Dave 2000 said:
My plan is to fit an aux tank above the spare wheel, perhaps 25 litres (have to work it out with dimensions), would like a dual fill nozzle or may divert the OE fill to the extra tank and gravity down to the OE tank.
SNIP

Any reason for NOT doing it that way as custom fuel tanks with simple connections seem cheap enough, in particular as the car is diesel it should be no problem?

If anyone is interested the older XJ Jaguars with were fitted with twin tanks but only the one high pressure pump, simple changeover feed/return valves were used, just the click of one switch changed not only the tank being used but also the feed for the fuel gauge, this is an idea for those who had mentioned about the fuel safety 'cut off' point made earlier. I had many years with Jaguars and the system was very reliable if you used decent quality components.
SNIP
Click to expand...

If you're diesel, it's less of an issue, but the gravity feed thing is somewhat problematic. If the connecting line was cut or compromised, then the fuel in the aux tank will just drain out onto the ground. Not so big a deal with diesel, but it would still make me nervous about flicked cigarettes in the event of a leak. That's why top-draw tanks are pretty much the standard required on vehicles today.

And it can happen. One of the trucks in the fleet I used to help maintain happened to have a crossover line between the two saddle tanks that semis typically had, one on each side. I can't remember why they had it, as it was just on a few of our Freightliners from one year's model. Anyway, the driver was headed to the store early one morning, hit a raccoon, which flung its corpse under the truck, breaking the fuel line. The truck continued down the road for about a half mile, where it quit after sputtering out of fuel. No big deal to fix, but the load was late to the customer and it cost us something like $8,000 in cleanup costs for the spilled fuel. This just happened to be on a road that I use to visit some kin, so I saw that it came to 4, 55-gallon drums. At $2,000/barrel, it was quite the bargain.:mad::D

So s**t happens...

As far as Jaguar and anything electric, it sounds like a good system, but one must surely keep up with the need to make sacrifices to keep Lucas, the God of Darkness, at bay?
 
I am thinking if we can get a supply of the dual fill nozzles, I will do a custom tank gravity fed to the main tank. I don't really see a need for a fuel gauge, transfer pump, etc in the secondary tank, you don't have a fuel gauge in your 5 gallon cans ;)
 
I wouldn't do gravity feed with gas. I would with diesel, however. My plan is just to use a solenoid to control which tank the engine pulls from and returns to (the way Toyota set up dual fuel tanks in diesels from the factory).
 
I am not sure I understand your distinction for not doing gravity feed with gas, but that it is ok with diesel? Yes there is a slight possibility that the line could be hit, but if you tuck the tank up between the frame rails and build a little skid for it, I see no issues. The line would be almost as high as the lines coming out of the main tank so I see no issue there. I would be using a high strength abrasion resistant hose I am sure.

Basically all it is, is a storage tank, you fill your main tank, flip the filler neck over and fill your second tank, as you drive the fuel pumps from the main tank, and stays at a constant level as the secondary tank drains, when the secondary tank is empty your needle starts to move and you are back to your stock tank capacity.

If it is a maintenance concern a high quality double pass welded tank with quality fittings and hoses are probably going to have a longer life than some of these existing 21 year old stock cruiser tanks. I have seen several threads on them leaking at the seams.



Douglas S said:
I wouldn't do gravity feed with gas. I would with diesel, however. My plan is just to use a solenoid to control which tank the engine pulls from and returns to (the way Toyota set up dual fuel tanks in diesels from the factory).
Click to expand...
 
The main concern with gravity feed is the fact that however you set it up, if the line leaks, comes loose, whatever, the whole tank empties.

I agree it's less of a hazard with diesel. On the other hand, 20 gallons or so of diesel can still ruin your whole day, even without an ignition source.

A non-gravity feed tank that gets a line loose, well, it's just what's in the line. That's why even when the fuel pump is in the tank tehse days, it's wired through the control system to shut down if pressures aren't nominal throughout the fuel system. It'll shut down, instead of continuing to draw from the non-gravity tank and pump it into the pavement.
So, when it comes to regs, standards, certified engineering drawings, etc, that's why no one these days who puts their name on the line legally will want to sign off on a gravity feed.

What you do on you own is up to you. YMMV. It's all about a soft FAIL mode, versus a hard FAIL mode, engineering wise.

I could definitely be interested in a solution that uses some sort of US-sourced auxiliary tank and a simple transfer to the main tank. Gauges, automation, etc, is not important to me.

BTW, in designing this, I think the way you want to go is that it pumps on demand, i.e. manually, into the main tank, displays a lamp or other indication that it's running in transfer mode, and has a return line for overflow from the main tank, in case you forget to end the manual transfer. here is where gravity is your friend, as all the plumbing is at the top of the tank. IIRC, this is similar to at least one of the OEM subtank configs, minus all the gauges, etc, so should be relatively easy to plumb.

I consider the OEM fill neck -- new or good used -- to be the key to making this work right and be safe. A decent substitute would work -- something else that the Chinese make, perhaps? -- but other solutions to fill aren't as user friendly, easy to install, or safe.
 
Yeah I guess this is why this board is always so cool, everyone has their own ideas about what is important and what they want.

To me a transfer pump, extra wiring, additional fuel return line, fuel filter, indicator light, etc are all just more things to fail. In your mind I could lose all my fuel from a hose leak, in my mind you could have fuel and not get it out. lol.

I am not sure how big it could be that high and tight, but I would assume 10-15 gallons, which is about 2310-3465 cubic inches, I am still away from my truck but I think I am going to see if I can some how order the dual filler neck and make this happen when I get back.
 
I'm pretty certain that it won't be too complicated to set a custom tank up with both options. Just leave the plug in the holes you don't use. For the top-draw crowd like me, a line running down to siphon fuel from top works. For the gravity feed crowd, a tap at the bottom.

My guess is you want an overflow connection at the top with both, because that will tie the aux tank into the factory fume control system. At least I think it will, because you gotta keep the system sealed and tied to the charcoal evap canister for things to work right and keep the clean air inspectors off your tail.
 
I wanted to chime in here since the day one of this thread, but school and work kept me busy.

Anyways I have been drooling on all the sub tank install threads even before I got my cruiser 3 years ago.

Originally, I wanted to get used OEM sub tank from Australia, but in 2 years after hundreds of ebay messages I gave up the idea of OEM used sub tank components because only small number of sellers will even consider ship internationally, and if they do, they will either will say no after finding out that used tanks are prohibited to ship, or will jack up the price very high.

In addition, after few road trips around Canada where gas stations were rare, I conclude that OEM sub tank will be a bit small for my needs, and it won’t worth doing sub tank unless it will be at least 20gal tank.

So after deaching used OEM sub tank idea there was only 2 easy options. One of them is to get 40 gal long ranger, but I don’t want to carry that much weight and have something hanging that low. And I think a lot of people in the same boat.

So the second easy option was 24gal MAF tank. In my opinion it is the perfect size, but the main issues are the price and availability. I don’t remember recalling when I ever seen them in stock, plus the price is a bit high and freight won’t be cheap for us, who don’t leave close to MAF. I even was in contact with Paul, the owner of the company who builds these tanks for MAF, but his reply was short: “We won’t sell just tanks even if you will take 10 of them; only full sets and you will have to order them through MAF”. Apparently 24gal tanks are specifically designed for North American market, it what I was told by Paul. I won’t get MAF tank until I win the lottery.

The alternative option to make the sub tank happen is to either custom built tank, or use already existing tank from other vehicle.

I tried to price out custom built tank for 80 in the size of 24gal and it was not pretty in Canada: 1.5-2k range just for the tank.

I tried to find tank from another car but I got stuck on research and then lost access to a shop. But it seems that some jeeps and Suzuki Vitara tanks may work. However, custom built straps will have to be built and I got couple of quotes on them and they looked in the range of $100-$200 which is not cheap.
As some may know I have access to most of the overseas Toyota parts and I was able to help several people to get brand new oem sub tanks and more than a dozen with dual filler necks. Major, hard to source, part for sub tank so far was straps, but it seems that supply is picking up after shown demand.

Even that I have pretty much all the parts to do sub tank installation any time I will still want to go for a bigger tank as for most of my situations 13gal won’t be enough. People that usually get oem sub tank are the ones who will lose the sleep if they have something non oem in their LC or the ones, who do serious rock crawling.

If anybody is really interested in making it happen, I have stable supply of oem dual filler necks and sub tank switches, and I have few contacts for transfer pump with built in valve to prevent spill. I usually have 2-4 dual necks in stock. If we will make run of custom build tanks I can look into making group buy for dual filler necks at the lowest possible price.

I will be up for a run on 20+ gallon sub tanks if it is not gravity, as I think it is the safest way for a lot of reasons.

:beer:
 
PM me the price on a dual filler neck please. Shipped to 78251. Thanks!


Akella said:
I wanted to chime in here since the day one of this thread, but school and work kept me busy.

Anyways I have been drooling on all the sub tank install threads even before I got my cruiser 3 years ago.

Originally, I wanted to get used OEM sub tank from Australia, but in 2 years after hundreds of ebay messages I gave up the idea of OEM used sub tank components because only small number of sellers will even consider ship internationally, and if they do, they will either will say no after finding out that used tanks are prohibited to ship, or will jack up the price very high.

In addition, after few road trips around Canada where gas stations were rare, I conclude that OEM sub tank will be a bit small for my needs, and it won’t worth doing sub tank unless it will be at least 20gal tank.

So after deaching used OEM sub tank idea there was only 2 easy options. One of them is to get 40 gal long ranger, but I don’t want to carry that much weight and have something hanging that low. And I think a lot of people in the same boat.

So the second easy option was 24gal MAF tank. In my opinion it is the perfect size, but the main issues are the price and availability. I don’t remember recalling when I ever seen them in stock, plus the price is a bit high and freight won’t be cheap for us, who don’t leave close to MAF. I even was in contact with Paul, the owner of the company who builds these tanks for MAF, but his reply was short: “We won’t sell just tanks even if you will take 10 of them; only full sets and you will have to order them through MAF”. Apparently 24gal tanks are specifically designed for North American market, it what I was told by Paul. I won’t get MAF tank until I win the lottery.

The alternative option to make the sub tank happen is to either custom built tank, or use already existing tank from other vehicle.

I tried to price out custom built tank for 80 in the size of 24gal and it was not pretty in Canada: 1.5-2k range just for the tank.

I tried to find tank from another car but I got stuck on research and then lost access to a shop. But it seems that some jeeps and Suzuki Vitara tanks may work. However, custom built straps will have to be built and I got couple of quotes on them and they looked in the range of $100-$200 which is not cheap.
As some may know I have access to most of the overseas Toyota parts and I was able to help several people to get brand new oem sub tanks and more than a dozen with dual filler necks. Major, hard to source, part for sub tank so far was straps, but it seems that supply is picking up after shown demand.

Even that I have pretty much all the parts to do sub tank installation any time I will still want to go for a bigger tank as for most of my situations 13gal won’t be enough. People that usually get oem sub tank are the ones who will lose the sleep if they have something non oem in their LC or the ones, who do serious rock crawling.

If anybody is really interested in making it happen, I have stable supply of oem dual filler necks and sub tank switches, and I have few contacts for transfer pump with built in valve to prevent spill. I usually have 2-4 dual necks in stock. If we will make run of custom build tanks I can look into making group buy for dual filler necks at the lowest possible price.

I will be up for a run on 20+ gallon sub tanks if it is not gravity, as I think it is the safest way for a lot of reasons.

:beer:
Click to expand...
 
Akella,
Your thoughts on tank size are right there with mine. The biggun is too big and the OEM is too small. 25 gallons is just about right. As I noted in my discussion about the 50 gallon replacement tank in my old FJ55, that same 50 gallons would be much better distributed in the 80 with two tanks, each about 25 gallons. I can see a few needing the 40 gallon tank, but it has drawbacks as you've noted.

I'd personally like to source some key OEM components, so it's good to hear they are available. I'm not worried about winning some concours competition for the most OEM mods to the truck, just keeping it safe, reliable, and relatively easy to source if replacement is ever needed.

BTW, exploring Canada is the big reason why I want to do this. The wife and I have our eye set on a trip to Newfoundland, then across the Trans-Labrador Highway. I'd like the freedom to explore, rather than worrying about if we'll make it to the next gas station if we find an inviting trail.
 
scottryana said:
PM me the price on a dual filler neck please. Shipped to 78251. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I will pm you the price tomorrow when i will get to my desktop computer.

greentruck said:
Akella,
Your thoughts on tank size are right there with mine. The biggun is too big and the OEM is too small. 25 gallons is just about right. As I noted in my discussion about the 50 gallon replacement tank in my old FJ55, that same 50 gallons would be much better distributed in the 80 with two tanks, each about 25 gallons. I can see a few needing the 40 gallon tank, but it has drawbacks as you've noted.

I'd personally like to source some key OEM components, so it's good to hear they are available. I'm not worried about winning some concours competition for the most OEM mods to the truck, just keeping it safe
BTW, exploring Canada is the big reason why I want to do this. The wife and I have our eye set on a trip to Newfoundland, then across the Trans-Labrador Highway. I'd like the freedom to explore, rather than worrying about if we'll make it to the next gas station if we find an inviting trail.
Click to expand...

I have done the trans labrador highway 2 years ago and it the place where you need at least additional 10gal for a stock lc and more than that for armored. PM me if you want some information on that trip.

As other place i want to check out is trans taiga road that is longer than trans labrador and it pure service road for Quebec hydro and on that one you need as much gas you can only bring.:bounce::bounce2:

What oem parts you guys think we will need if we will go for the custom sub tank? In my understanding we only need:

*OEM Dual filler neck
*OEM switch
*OEM overhead console(expensive and hard to get new)
 
TheBigBoy said:
Ok, Im gathering a few of them. Easiest way is to just chuck them on ebay for a set price (average them out for coast of all). Then delivery will be easily seen for all parts of the globe.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me.

regards

Dave
 
Akella said:
I wanted to chime in here since the day one of this thread, but school and work kept me busy.

Anyways I have been drooling on all the sub tank install threads even before I got my cruiser 3 years ago.

Originally, I wanted to get used OEM sub tank from Australia, but in 2 years after hundreds of ebay messages I gave up the idea of OEM used sub tank components because only small number of sellers will even consider ship internationally, and if they do, they will either will say no after finding out that used tanks are prohibited to ship, or will jack up the price very high.

In addition, after few road trips around Canada where gas stations were rare, I conclude that OEM sub tank will be a bit small for my needs, and it won’t worth doing sub tank unless it will be at least 20gal tank.

So after deaching used OEM sub tank idea there was only 2 easy options. One of them is to get 40 gal long ranger, but I don’t want to carry that much weight and have something hanging that low. And I think a lot of people in the same boat.

So the second easy option was 24gal MAF tank. In my opinion it is the perfect size, but the main issues are the price and availability. I don’t remember recalling when I ever seen them in stock, plus the price is a bit high and freight won’t be cheap for us, who don’t leave close to MAF. I even was in contact with Paul, the owner of the company who builds these tanks for MAF, but his reply was short: “We won’t sell just tanks even if you will take 10 of them; only full sets and you will have to order them through MAF”. Apparently 24gal tanks are specifically designed for North American market, it what I was told by Paul. I won’t get MAF tank until I win the lottery.

The alternative option to make the sub tank happen is to either custom built tank, or use already existing tank from other vehicle.

I tried to price out custom built tank for 80 in the size of 24gal and it was not pretty in Canada: 1.5-2k range just for the tank.

I tried to find tank from another car but I got stuck on research and then lost access to a shop. But it seems that some jeeps and Suzuki Vitara tanks may work. However, custom built straps will have to be built and I got couple of quotes on them and they looked in the range of $100-$200 which is not cheap.
As some may know I have access to most of the overseas Toyota parts and I was able to help several people to get brand new oem sub tanks and more than a dozen with dual filler necks. Major, hard to source, part for sub tank so far was straps, but it seems that supply is picking up after shown demand.

Even that I have pretty much all the parts to do sub tank installation any time I will still want to go for a bigger tank as for most of my situations 13gal won’t be enough. People that usually get oem sub tank are the ones who will lose the sleep if they have something non oem in their LC or the ones, who do serious rock crawling.

If anybody is really interested in making it happen, I have stable supply of oem dual filler necks and sub tank switches, and I have few contacts for transfer pump with built in valve to prevent spill. I usually have 2-4 dual necks in stock. If we will make run of custom build tanks I can look into making group buy for dual filler necks at the lowest possible price.

I will be up for a run on 20+ gallon sub tanks if it is not gravity, as I think it is the safest way for a lot of reasons.

:beer:
Click to expand...

Hi Akella, They arent prohibited. There is just a very labour intensive proceedure before they will let it be shipped/posted. Ive looked into on my side. And can see why some sellers would jack the price up, as its a PITA to do. The filler necks are the same but should be much easier. Ive been inundated in PM form from people wanting them. So will hunt it up for you. The funny thing is, here we cant get enough factory flares for our trucks and you guys take them off and throw them away aswell :).
 
Douglas S said:
Hey Akella,

Is there a difference between the part #'s for the dual filler neck for a gas vs a diesel LC?
Click to expand...

Yes and No. How i remember correctly when i did research for the right part numbers for dual filler necks. There are 2 part numbers for filler neck for each version of dual filler neck, pre 95 and 95+.

One for any model and one with restrictor for petrol. The version with restrictor is discontinued and only can be sourced used. Without restrictor is still in production.

So there is no diesel only dual filler neck and subtank. Only different is pick up tube in sub tank. Petrol is single line and diesel is dual with return line

I usually have pre 95 dual filler necks as they are much easier to install.
 
To answer the concerns re a gravity feed tank.

First, the chance of a spill from a split transfer hose is very small indeed, the OE system uses rubber and mild steel from the filler to the tank. The steel portion on my car rusted through but the rubber secions were fine, I replaced most of it with rubber fuel hose from the boat yard. Now for the transfer to work from the OE filler being redirected the aux tank the transfer pipe has to be quite large or the time to fill both tanks would take ages, this got me thinking. Living on the coast there are plenty of boat repair shops and chandlers ect, I decided to have a chat with them about fuel hose. They all use armoured flexible hoses to connect deck fill point to fuel tank and is available in very large diameters, this hose can be stood on and will not crush or kink, as in most things designed for the marine environment I am sure this would be fine.

About separate tanks.

There is a distinct advantage using a changeover switch/flow/return system though, if you were to fill from an uncertain or unreliable source (Africa in my case) you could restrict the top up to one tank, in the event you had a problem you could change the filter and swap to the other tank....just a thought.

Jerry can, ideal if you need to syphon from a drum with a hose!

regards

Dave
 
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