Best Toyota diesel choice for expedition type vehicle

[shmukster]

I've started to look for a diesel-powered Toyota truck to be used as an expedition type vehicle. I know very little about diesels except that the 3B powered FJ70 I owned for two years was woefully lacking in power. Been looking at trucks that are currently readily available here in the US and affordable for me. Been focusing so far on the HJ61 series or the early nineties HJ81 trucks; I know they use different engines and I'd like to know which is considered "better". Would love to hear from people who own either one or even better from anyone who knows about both (or other options i may haven't been considering). Right hand drive isn't a problem for me as long as I buy something with an automatic transmission- I don't care to shift manual gears with my left hand. Opinions welcome- let me know what you think!

 

[Douglas S]

Hands down 1HD-T/FT in my opinion. Good parts availability, very reliable once baselined (beb's), good power with more readily available should you want it.

 

[dare]

I'm assuming you'd turbo anything that didn't have one anyway.

14B/15B-F (DI 1988 onwards B series)
Pros
All timing gear
pushrod
toughest family of engines Toyota makes, all the others have an achillies heel.
Cons
Rotary pump
Dunno if they even exist in the U.S?
Doesn't actually come in a Landcruiser (exept for Bandys) but easy to convert a BJ.

12H-T
Pros
inline pump
all timing gear
Pushrod (simple to work on if for example you need to do head off in the middle of nowhere)
Cons
Needs pistons replaced with alfin ones for maximum dependability.
Some parts are getting hard to find, nothing that will leave you stranded.

1HDT/FT
Pros
Good parts availability
Smooth and powerful
Cons
Timing belt
OHC
Rotary pump
Big end bearings need doing.
Expensive

3B (pre 1988)
Pros
All timing gear
pushrod
Inline pump
cheap
Cons
Heads and precups crack
Getting hard to get parts for or are expensive.

2H
Pros
All timing gear
pushrod
Inline pump
Cons
Heads and precups crack
No alfin pistons

1HZ
Pros
Good parts availability
Less prone to head/precup issues than the other IDIs but it still happens.
Cons
Timing belt
OHC
Rotary pump


They're all reliable engines and precups aside (and if you've got an ancient IDI you're relying on for remote area travel you should probably replace them) there's nothing even vaguely common that's suddenly going to break and strand you with any of these motors.

I think the drivetrain has to be considered too. 80s have a stronger/more modern gearbox and transfer. IMO it's more likely an old Landcruiser gearbox/transfer is going to let you down than an old Toyota diesel.

If someone said to me "Hayden in 2 weeks you're heading out into the desert by yourself for a year, what vehicle would you like?" It'd be a HJ75 with a rebuilt 12H-T. The b engines might be tougher but you've got no chance of finding a gearbox for one in nowheresville where as dead HJ75s and HJ60s are not all that hard to find here in Australia.

If I lived in the U.S I'd look very strongly at an Isuzu 4BD1T conversion in a USDM 80 series. 4BD1s are super tough, not as rough as 4BTs and easy to get parts for over there. You'd also have the parts backup of a U.S delivered vehicle instead of the import PITAs. It will also get better fuel economy than any Toyota Diesel.

 

[joekatana]

If "overlanding " means leaving the US I would choose any lwb Cruiser with a 1HZ or even a 1PZ,1HDT's are great but more prone to grenade themselves with inferior fuel.

 

[tweeek]

1HDT's are great but more prone to grenade themselves with inferior fuel.

Please elaborate on this statement

 

[Tapage]

grenade .. c'on .. !

IMHO 12HT it's the perfect engine .. the only problem it have, was produced very short period, so are rare, expensive and sure don't have the part availability of those motors produced 10 years plus .. on that line 1HZ it's been in the market for ages, so part ain't gonna be a problem.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Its the budget that will be the ultimate decider.
If you can afford the HDJ81's you have been looking at and they are in good condition, I would stop right there. They are the best all round Landcruiser ever made if you consider the on road handling , performance and off road abilty as the main criteria.
If you want to sleep inside ,you will probably want a troopy.
Overland vehicles spend 90% of their life on road ,so you don't need a monster truck.

 

[joekatana]

Please elaborate on this statement

I know several people that had their 1HDT's die on them in Africa because of bad fuel while the 1HZ's in the same groups where not affected by it.Seems that the most logical choice less prone to problems still is a 1HZ with a 5 speed manual behind it.As long as you stay near a Starbucks this will be of course irrelative.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I know several people that had their 1HDT's die on them in Africa because of bad fuel while the 1HZ's in the same groups where not affected by it..

Surely this would be more related to poor filtration.

 

[joekatana]

Surely this would be more related to poor filtration.

Yes it probably was but the effect stayed the same

I love the power from the 1HDT (especially the 1HDFT) and the comfort from an automatic transmission but if I need to depend on a vehicle to bring me there and back off the beaten track and away of your normal backup plans I choose for a 1HZ (with or without added turbo) and a 5 speed.

 

[tweeek]

Yes it probably was but the effect stayed the same

I love the power from the 1HDT (especially the 1HDFT) and the comfort from an automatic transmission but if I need to depend on a vehicle to bring me there and back off the beaten track and away of your normal backup plans I choose for a 1HZ (with or without added turbo) and a 5 speed.

The 1HZ and 1HDT are both great engines, but a blanket statement that the 1HDT is likely to grenade from poor fuel, when fuel filtration in your situation was likely the issue, is complete unsubstantiated nonsense.

 

[Stumpalama]

Hi roof HJ61

 

[roscoFJ73]

I need to depend on a vehicle to bring me there and back off the beaten track and away of your normal backup plans I choose for a 1HZ (with or without added turbo) and a 5 speed.

I think once you get off the beaten track ,the need for high end HP disappears , so the NA 6 cyl is perfect. Even the 4cyl.

 

[Delancy]

a blanket statement that the 1HDT is likely to grenade from poor fuel, when fuel filtration in your situation was likely the issue, is complete unsubstantiated nonsense.

Then, let's straighten the blanket.

DI are more likely to encounter fuel related issues resulting in failure, than IDI.

Since Mr. T put the same filter on both, then the 'blanket' statement can be substantiated that HD failed at a higher rate than HZ, when fueled at the same source.

Since Mr. Joe doesn't talk out of his ass and has experience in these matters, without a dog in the fight, and most modern DI diesels have advanced filtration systems, numerous filters, lends credit that, before the hair is split for the purpose of Internet bravado, the blanket statement kinda covers the chilly toes.

That said, this is Mud where everyone's an expert and no substantiation is necessary.

 

[Sarmajor]

I am not sure why the BEB thing persists for the 1HD-T engine. The problem was reasonably isolated to a specific mileage range and appeared to be related to a specific bearing manufacturer.
Basically if your 1HD-T motor made it past 125-150k miles you had dodged the bullet and your engine was not fitted with the faulty bearings.

Given that the HDJ81 with the 1HD-T motor is fitted with a fuel filter and water trap with a float switch and a light on the dash water in the fuel should not get to be a problem. If the light comes on stop the truck and drain it out of the filter.

I have only had my truck stopped once due to fuel and that was a defective batch of biodiesel derived from Tallow. Unfortunately something went wrong in the manufacture and the fuel got a bit thick for the filter. Replaced the filter and filled the tank with diesel to dilute the biodiesel.

I have also run my truck on straight Waste Vegatable Oil from the local fish and chip shop. Went ok and the exhaust smelt great.

The motor is currently at 340k km and still going strong.

 

[Vossie]

Its the budget that will be the ultimate decider.
If you can afford the HDJ81's you have been looking at and they are in good condition, I would stop right there. They are the best all round Landcruiser ever made if you consider the on road handling , performance and off road abilty as the main criteria.
If you want to sleep inside ,you will probably want a troopy.
Overland vehicles spend 90% of their life on road ,so you don't need a monster truck.

agreed. the over all best all rounder is the 80 series, particularly one with a 1Hd-T as it has that extra power for on road use. that being said, i grew up with an 80 series GX with the 1HZ. it has over 1 200 000 kms on it, shown to me by the latest owner. 600 000 of those kms belonged to my family. my father had a 75 series with a 1hz too, that one went to 800 000kms before her sold it. what im saying here, the 80 series in which ever configuration is all the car you will ever need. all you need to do is consider whether you want that extra power or not.

I know several people that had their 1HDT's die on them in Africa because of bad fuel while the 1HZ's in the same groups where not affected by it.Seems that the most logical choice less prone to problems still is a 1HZ with a 5 speed manual behind it.As long as you stay near a Starbucks this will be of course irrelative.

Surely this would be more related to poor filtration.

coming from africa, maybe i can help out here. there are two type of people here. those who maintain their cars, and those who dont. so yes, bad filtration is a factor to consider.

HOWEVER.

there is also such a thing here as bad diesel. we call it beira brown (coming in from beira, Mozambique). it has the propensity to have VERY high sulfur content. to my understanding, and i may be wrong so please correct me if so, its the poor quality and high sulfur content that wreak havoc with DI engines. ive heard that you can filter/treat the diesel to remedy this, but have no personal experience so wont make any comments on it.

what i do have experience on is having injectors fail due to bad diesel. my mothers car is KZJ95 prado with the 1KD tdci engine. great car with over 280 000 miles on it now (UK spec). however, about a year ago we had to replace injector no.3. diagnosis was damage due to poor diesel quality. thats what the print out said and dont have any further info. we replaced it and now shes running string as ever.

what im really trying to say here is YES, poor quality diesel can have an impact on your engine, especially DI engines. HOWEVER, keeping up with good maintenance and just in general looking after your LC will mean that poor diesel should never be your only reason to discredit getting a DI engine

 

[gerg]

Higher performance and complexity usually come at the expense of durability. Go ask a Russian.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Higher performance and complexity usually come at the expense of durability. Go ask a Russian.

Hmmm, I had a Lada Niva in a past life. It had neither complexity, performance or durability

 

[shmukster]

Thanks for all the comments. Let me narrow my plans a bit. I don't ever plan to leave the US with the truck, and don't plan to ever use any fuel other than diesel dispensed directly from a dealer's pump. I want to buy a truck on whose engine I don't have to do any major upgrades/modifications, this especially important as I am not very knowledgeable about diesels. I have a great very capable FJ40 for rock crawling and stuff like that; the vehicle I'm looking for will hopefully be used for annual trips to Utah and Colorado, for example. No need for a real rock crawling machine, just want a land cruiser that will get me over all the passes and trails reliably, and get some decent fuel mileage in the process.

I believe the 80 series offers a better ride than the 60 series trucks and with the availability of various trucks on today's marketplace I have been somewhat leaning toward an HJ81. Right now I am seeing a really nice low mileage raised roof HJ61, very nice truck but no lockers, priced at $24K. On the other hand is a nice clean HJ81 with remarkably low miles, auto trans, and factory lockers with some other attractive options for $21K. Both are right hand drive with automatic transmissions. If I was to choose right now between these two I'd probably go with the HJ81. Opinions?

 

[mudgudgeon]

agreed. the over all best all rounder is the 80 series, particularly one with a 1Hd-T as it has that extra power for on road use. that being said, i grew up with an 80 series GX with the 1HZ. it has over 1 200 000 kms on it, shown to me by the latest owner. 600 000 of those kms belonged to my family. my father had a 75 series with a 1hz too, that one went to 800 000kms before her sold it. what im saying here, the 80 series in which ever configuration is all the car you will ever need. all you need to do is consider whether you want that extra power or not.

I agree that 80 series would be my pick, or 105 series which is basically a more refined, slightly larger version of the 80series.

there's hundreds of 1000's of 80series in Aus, with examples that have done over 1M km.
I loved my HDJ81, but I think of the cars that have done over 1M km, probably not many would be 1hd-t's on the original engine. Plenty with high km's, but 1hz will last longer in general IMHO.