Battery Choices

[cruiserdan]

If you mean the tray on the RH side, it is not "non-USA" it comes from an FJ80 (3FE) and is very much "USA".....



Yo, Steve, the Brown man shows up tomorrow......




D-

 

[Landpimp]

not in a stock tray, but you could prolly get a pair of Odyessys in, like I did on my fj40.

My buddies local 4x4 shop has no had one Oribtal come back.....but a ton of Optima's.

saw a neat trick with the Orbital, dude ran hold down bolts right down thru the case(in the voids) It will void the warantee however
\

Curious .. you see a bunch of the orbitals Dave . Do you think I could run a dual orbital setup in the stock tray ? I can measure it easy enough .. just thought you may have eye-balled it already .

TY

 

[best4x4xfar]

Take a look at LifeLine batteries...

I posted this awhile back, but will repost for the sake of the current conversation....

"The Odyssey Line of batteries appear to be quality batteries, but to me their specifications seem to let them down (size verses capacity) when compared to other quality AGM batteries available. The PC1200 is the closest in size to say a yellow top Optima, but only carries a 78 min reserve capacity in a similar size/weight package as the Optima which carries a 124 min reserve. To me, reserve capacity is the important number, and a 47 minute advantage in a similar sized battery is a HUGE difference. The PC1700 specs are better, but they are huge next to an Optima. I’m new to Land Cruisers, and still looking for the right one to own. If there is room to fit two PC1700’s under the hood that is great, I never had that much room under the hood of my Discovery. Two PC1700’s will give you 284 minutes of reserve, pretty impressive. As I said, Reserve time to me was always the most important in building a vehicle that will travel far away from civilization.

If you are really looking for a high capacity set-up, consider this. I didn’t get around to trying it in my Discovery, but check out Lifeline Batteries (http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marine.asp ) model GPL-4C. Lifelines are well respected (in commercial applications) AGM deep cycle batteries. The GPL-4C is approximately the same length and width as an Optima, but slightly less than 2.5” taller (I don’t know how much height the Crusier has to play with, but these would have just barely cleared the hood blanket on my Discovery), and is a 6 volt battery. By placing two in series (instead of parallel) you get a 12 volt battery with, are you ready for this, 492 minutes of reserve time (standard 25 amp draw test). That’s roughly the equivalent of four Optima Yellow tops in parallel. Plenty of juice for winching, and would probably run an ARB/Engle fridge for a week or more! That is also an extra 208 minutes of reserve over TWO PC1700’s. How is that for reserve capacity? I’ve seen several photos around this site of PC1200’s used in Parallel. To me these have far to little reserve capacity, with two of them coming I with 128 minutes LESS reserve time than a single PC1700. Just something else to consider, if they will fit. I’d love to hear from someone as to whether they will or not…"

P.S. -- My Experience with exide products in general has been pretty poor, and Optima pretty random (some are awesome, some suck...)

 

[Landpimp]

heard good things about golf cart batteires, they are 6volt, think Trogan is the name i hear at the marine stores. they are not AGM.

 

[RavenTai]

best4x4xfar, the Lifelines do have a nice AH rating that convets into good reserve capacity, main reason is they are larger than the other mentioned.

putting 2 6v batteries in sereis eleminates a lot of the complication of a dual battery setup. no isolators solenoids switches etc there is something to be said for KISS, but you loose redundancy, with 2 12v batteries you can drain/kill/destroy/romove one and still start off the other. two GPL-27t's in parallel give close to the same total capacity as 2 GPL4's, the 27's are the size the 80's tray was made for, the GPL-4C's are narrower but taller and deeper, the width is the tight spot in the 80's try the GPL-4c may very well fit.

comparison taken from Concorde's website

GPL-4C
750CCA
220AH

GPL-27T
575CCA
100AH

at first glance the GPL4C looks like it gives a lot more for in both CCA and capacity but a pair is required, and in series the amps do not add they infact stay the same.

same comparison for for a pair of each the 4's in series and the 27's in parallel

GPL-4C
750CCA
220AH

GPL-27T
1150CCA
200AH

the 4's still has a slight margin in AH but to get acces to that capacity you have to drain your srtarting battery, as electrically you only have one battery, in the scenario you posed of getting out of the boonies after an alternator faiure that is not important. you have already started and are going to use whatever capacity you have to get back to civiliation, in fact having them permanatly wired together no solenoid needed is kind of nice for that use but for the stuff I want dual bats for it dows not work, I want one battey I can drian wile the engien is off (lights radio ect, later maybe carputer winch radio ect) and still have a fresh one for starting. in an emergency I can parallel thm and use the capcity of both to get out.

2 1700's have been put under the hood of an 80, they were the non FMJ version an took soem minor modidification of the battey, not as elegant as using a group 27 bat IMO but it can be done

Odyssey 1700

875CCA
65AH

BTY there are some similarities between all the non sprial wond (non optima/orbital) SVRLAAGM batteries from the case desighn to the terminals, I would not be supprised if they are all made by the same company.

 

[ryanjl]

The GPL-4C is approximately the same length and width as an Optima, but slightly less than 2.5” taller (I don’t know how much height the Crusier has to play with, but these would have just barely cleared the hood blanket on my Discovery), and is a 6 volt battery.

As an electard, I can't comment on any of the amperage, voltage, or "johnson-rays" issues with different batteries.

But I do know that in order to fit an optima or similarly sized battery correctly in an 80, you have to use a 2" or so spacer underneath so it sits up high enough for the OEM cables to connect to the terminals.

Sounds like the battery you are talking about would fit perfectly.

 

[RavenTai]

"johnson-rays"

Those sound dangerous

 

[jmsoule]

Interstate Leaks/Sucks

Hi everyone. Here some photos of my Interstate battery. Most likely OEM. Blah. I purchased a new battery bar with bolts. I have a second battery tray for a dual battery setup. Thanks for all the good information.

James

 

[flintknapper]

Not for me.

That is exactly what I have been talking about. If your Interstate isn't (leaking/over venting) from the top and ruining everything around it then just wait, or check your acid level you're probably low. It's a shame, because other than that they are pretty decent batteries. This is a problem that has plagued Interstate for years and years....come on I-State FIX IT!

[/QUOTE]

 

[RavenTai]

Looks like the same battery that the PO put in mine, group 24 450CCA Interstate, it is not OEM. My only gripe with it so far is low reserve capacity and little cranking power on cold mornings.

Fortunately mine has not done that yet, have you checked your charging voltage? It should not be much more that 14.8V or so, how about the water level?

Got almost all the parts for my dual battery setup. But the solenoid did not arrive in time for this weekend, too cold out there anyway. Hopefully next weekend

 

[Beowulf]

Raven,

We want a complete write-up with pics. Which isolator/solenoid did you select?

-B-

 

[RavenTai]

Will do,

Wound up with the Blue Sea 9012, I could not find any of the Tyco versions for any less. (AKA Czonka III contactor, EV 200, CAP 200 and probably other names) they were available for ~$70 in 2001 but no longer. Paid ~$110 shipped for the Blue sea version. also have about $100 in cable terminal and lugs. havent truely added it up yet but I think it is goign to add up to over $600 total.

 

[best4x4xfar]

Hey Raven,

I agree that the drawback is loss of redundancy. Everyone has to weigh the importance of a second isolated battery or ultimate capacity. I believe your suggestion for two GPL-27T’s (or even better a pair of GPL-31T’s, seem like they would fit if Odyssey PC1700s fit, and these bump the specs up even more, giving you an additional 9 minutes of reserve, and 25 CCAs. Not hugely significant, but every minute counts) would be the next best option if you want to retain the ability to have a separate battery isolated from electrical loads when the vehicle is off, retaining the ability to start the vehicle after draining a battery dead. However, the reserve times (at 25 amp draw) of dual 27T’s falls 120 minutes short of a pair of 4C’s in series though. Given this, I don’t necessarily agree that dual 27T’s in parallel give close to the same capacity. 120 minutes is the reserve capacity of an Optima Yellow top, so the difference is as much as adding one to the mix. And a pair of PC1700’s is still 208 minutes short of the reserve time offered by the dual 4C’s.

At any rate, the redundancy of two 12v batteries certainly has its strengths over what is essentially one large 12v battery (with the two 4C’s in series), but at significantly lower reserve capacity overall. Either way, they are both a great upgrade over the stock electrical capacity, and IMHO better offerings than Optima, Exide or Odyssey. Just some added input to help confuse the choices even more.

 

[RavenTai]

Hey Raven,


................ However, the reserve times (at 25 amp draw) of dual 27T’s falls 120 minutes short of a pair of 4C’s in series though. Given this, I don’t necessarily agree that dual 27T’s in parallel give close to the same capacity. 120 minutes is the reserve capacity of an Optima Yellow top, so the difference is as much as adding one to the mix.

That is interesting, I was working with the Amp*Hour ratings, (at 20 hour rate) there the difference it not much, 200AH for the 27's and 220AH for the 4's giving the 4’s 10% more, but as you said looking at the minutes of discharge at 25A there is a much larger difference, 372 minutes vs. 492 minutes the pair of 4's having 120 minutes or 32% more capacity in that measure. That is significant

The two must respond very differently to different loads.

BTY group 31 batteries will not easily fit the stock tray. There is a little over 12" between the hold down rods,

 

[alia176]

$600 for a dual batt setup? That seems a bit on the pricey side to me! Painless and Wrangler offer two great products for less money and are very easy to install. Dual batts have been in existence for years so the cost shouldn't be that high for a simple wiring setup. We used to use old Ford starter relay back in the ol' days before the fancy oil bathed, cont duty relay came out!! I know that some folks use a fancier, solid state isolators and such, but I gotta tell ya, a simple cont duty relay and a switch is about all you need! Wiring instructions for a DIY is all over the 'net.

I still can't figure out why some folks are paying premium for a 200 amp solenoid for their dual batt system, when their oem alternator can only put out 80 amps! All the relay doing is connecting the two batteries together to the alternator. Unless you have a premier power welder or a Mean Green alternator, the extra amp solenoid may not be necessary.

Just some food for thought.

Ali

 

[RavenTai]

The solenoid also has to carry starter current should I ever need to start from the second battery. A ford starter relay will not last long in continuous duty. Also should the batteries be paralleled when one is very low (not suppose to happen in normal use but could in abnormal situation) there could be a large current from one into the other solenoid has to be able to carry that un-fused load.

You need more than " simple cont duty relay and a switch", more like:
Solenoid
Switch
2 batteries
Second tray,
25" 1/0 cable,
10 cable lugs,
4 battery terminals,
Misc. smaller wire/components,
Misc. hardware.
Washer bottle relocation (witch I made)

There are also parts needed for the aux (maybe 2) fuse boxes that I have not got to yet

Add it up, there are savings to be had compared to what I am doing as on most I went with the best available but even with the cheapest components it will still run at least ~300 unless you cut some serious corners.

 

[alia176]

Good points. All misc hardware can and do add up. I added up my second batt setup and it came out to around <$200.

$50 for Wrangler solenoid 200 amp - long time ago purchased
$25 for the cool wranger switch wth LEDs (green/led) - long time ago purchased
The rest went to purchasing a second oem batt tray from Dan and all #4 and #1/0 wires and crimps. The price also includes the second aux fuse panel and marine batt terms. All 1/0 cable lugs came from a welding store I believe. ACE hardware near me carries #4 and #2 gauge wire lugs.

Ali

 

[Beowulf]

Raven,

The $600 sounds reasonable to me. I am accumulating parts to complete the dual battery, dual aux fuse panels, inverter, and 60 amp air compressor (3/4hp). The costs add up very quickly when you get quality parts like Ancor wire, Wrangler panels, good batteries, connectors, terminals, high amp fuses, 12v outlets, and a quality isolator/switch. I will have over $200 just in wire!

-B-