ARB twin compressor not cutting it? (1 Viewer)

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97HM

97HM

Joined
Dec 1, 2021
Threads
10
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53
Location
Houston, Tx
I recently installed ARB lockers so It was time to figure out OBA. My goal for the system was/is to be my main compressor setup rather I'm at home or on a trip. I got the ARB twin motor compressor and a 2 gallon air tank. Most of the time I am using it to air up tires on my trailers (110psi x4) and tow rig, and occasionally I want the ability to use air tools. My issue is that the ARB always starts to cut out when I get to the third tire or so and I end up having to wait a while and come back for the compressor to work again. A buddy told me this is because the ARBs are not made to be be used continuously like that. I am having a hard time understanding the exact reason for this. It looks like people here like the puma but cant figure out if it will actually do what I need it to. If anyone knowledgeable on the subject has any ideas it would be much appreciated.
 
Your friend might be right. 4x110psi is a lot for a portable compressor to handle, and assuming the air flow to your tank isn't causing a lot of backpressure, then the compressor is probably overheating and tripping the thermal switch. Even though it's rated for 100% duty cycle that's probably only at normal tire pressures in the 30-40psi range.

I don't know about Puma compressors but for your use you might need something like an Oasis or an engine driven compressor

Oasis Continuous-Duty Air Compressor System, 12 Volt - https://ktperformance.net/i-6684765-oasis-continuous-duty-air-compressor-system-12-volt.html
 
I agree, and that must be a heavy trailer running 110lbs. I am not sure if you are just topping off or if you are completely filling them. I can normally fill my tires from 15lbs to 35 and another truck without an issue. The compressor gets hot but no issues. So 8 tires from 15 to 35. I assume the work the compressor does goes up related to the tire pressure. It works harder going from 95 to 110 than it would from 15 to 30.
 
ducktapeguy said:
Your friend might be right. 4x110psi is a lot for a portable compressor to handle, and assuming the air flow to your tank isn't causing a lot of backpressure, then the compressor is probably overheating and tripping the thermal switch. Even though it's rated for 100% duty cycle that's probably only at normal tire pressures in the 30-40psi range.

I don't know about Puma compressors but for your use you might need something like an Oasis or an engine driven compressor

Oasis Continuous-Duty Air Compressor System, 12 Volt - https://ktperformance.net/i-6684765-oasis-continuous-duty-air-compressor-system-12-volt.html
Click to expand...
The tank and compressor were setup for maximum flow so I also agree that its probably a thermal switch.
Holy cow that oasis is a unit right there. I think I will have to look into engine driven, I know there is some support for the york compressor fitment on 80s.
REKCUT said:
I agree, and that must be a heavy trailer running 110lbs. I am not sure if you are just topping off or if you are completely filling them. I can normally fill my tires from 15lbs to 35 and another truck without an issue. The compressor gets hot but no issues. So 8 tires from 15 to 35. I assume the work the compressor does goes up related to the tire pressure. It works harder going from 95 to 110 than it would from 15 to 30.
Click to expand...
Its a decently heavy trailer. 7k axles on 14 ply tires. And im never filling them from empty. They just need to be topped off, the amount depends on how long the trailer has sat. I also had this issue on one of my lower pressure trailers on friday. All 4 tires were pretty low and needed to get them to 75. The ARB cut out when I got to 70 on the 4th one.
 
I can vouch for the Oasis being an absolute beast, I had one once as an OBA compressor and it had no trouble airing 37's up from 10 to 40psi in quick succession. It would run a 1/2" air impact gun for tire changes no problem. It is basically an upgraded York compressor coupled to a continuous duty DC motor, so if you can fit a York 210 to your engine you're most of the way there. Oasis parts are available through places like Grainger if you feel the need to do upgrades like their finned cylinder head for extra cooling, though most likely that wouldn't be necessary.
 
97HM said:
I recently installed ARB lockers so It was time to figure out OBA. My goal for the system was/is to be my main compressor setup rather I'm at home or on a trip. I got the ARB twin motor compressor and a 2 gallon air tank. Most of the time I am using it to air up tires on my trailers (110psi x4) and tow rig, and occasionally I want the ability to use air tools. My issue is that the ARB always starts to cut out when I get to the third tire or so and I end up having to wait a while and come back for the compressor to work again. A buddy told me this is because the ARBs are not made to be be used continuously like that. I am having a hard time understanding the exact reason for this. It looks like people here like the puma but cant figure out if it will actually do what I need it to. If anyone knowledgeable on the subject has any ideas it would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Duty cycle is duty cycle. Arb twin is rated at 100%, doesn’t matter if you’re 15-35 or 95-110, it should run.

Is it in the engine compartment and overheating with the engine running? I don’t think this is the problem, but it might add to it.

If you look at the tech specs you’ll see that it draws 29 amps just at ZERO psi, it’s drawing 50 at just 35 psi and 68 at 150 psi.

It’s kicking off for a reason, and it could be too small of wire. Just a guess here.
4 AWG copper is rated at 80 amps at 75 degrees, not sure what the drop would be in the hot engine compartment. 12 gauge is barely enough ampacity at 0 pressure.

I had to the hard way on shortchanging wire capacity on diesel fuel transfer pumps. It’s like running your engine with a clogged air filter, except that the electric motor will just burn up and be done.

What size wire is feeding it?
 
Ditcherman said:
Duty cycle is duty cycle. Arb twin is rated at 100%, doesn’t matter if you’re 15-35 or 95-110, it should run.

Is it in the engine compartment and overheating with the engine running? I don’t think this is the problem, but it might add to it.

If you look at the tech specs you’ll see that it draws 29 amps just at ZERO psi, it’s drawing 50 at just 35 psi and 68 at 150 psi.

It’s kicking off for a reason, and it could be too small of wire. Just a guess here.
4 AWG copper is rated at 80 amps at 75 degrees, not sure what the drop would be in the hot engine compartment. 12 gauge is barely enough ampacity at 0 pressure.

I had to the hard way on shortchanging wire capacity on diesel fuel transfer pumps. It’s like running your engine with a clogged air filter, except that the electric motor will just burn up and be done.

What size wire is feeding it?
Click to expand...
Ok, so yesterday I couldn't get the unit to turn on at all. This has never happened to me after an extended period of it being off so I thought weird. I checked the fuses, they definitely got hot. Went a little further back and there it is.... burnt and melted wires. I feel incredibly dumb for putting the blame on the ARB and not noticing this sooner, but I have looked before and it must not have been as obvious at the time. I think this is operator error.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your assumption. Its wired with 10 gauge and I think this should definitely be upgraded to 4-6 AWG? I was able to air up mine and my buddies 37s no issues at all, but when drawing higher amps at higher pressure that's when I have issues. Heat isn't really a factor since its mounted behind my rear quarter panel, but the wire is long since its running across the entire car.

Edit: Its 2 power wires so will probably go to 6AWG
 
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IMG_7084.jpeg


Hey at least you saved the life of your ARB!
I forgot those motors are powered individually. You could probably reduce the gauge because of that?
I’m not an electrician just a serious do it your self kind of guy, google is your friend to find the right gauge.
 
yup, 50A is too much for run of the mill 10ga. What size fuse did you have on that?
 
I have always installed my twins with the factory loom and kept them fused separately and never had an issue. Size matters, Wire size that is... haha
 
97HM said:
Two 40A fuses
Click to expand...
Two 40A fuses in parallel? Either way sounds like your wiring was severely undersized for the load. If it's running the length of the car then there's probably too much voltage drop under load which was causing it to draw more amps, which was probably triggering the thermal switch. If you're gonna keep the ARB then you probably want to up size the wire to 4ga or larger since you're running continuous duty.

How long does it take to air up from 75psi to 110? ARB doesn't have any specs at that pressure but I'm assuming it's gotta take a while. It's interesting to see that the oasis flows more air at 100psi than the ARB does at 0psi.
 
Ancor Marine Wire's page has a Resources page with various methods of sizing the wire of the load and the length of circuit. I use it or their old printed catalog every time I work on a wiring project to size the wire(s) correctly.

Resources | Ancor

Documentation, spec charts, and installation guides.
www.navico.com www.navico.com
 
Curious what your wire connections are fastened with ? The draw #'s posted above don't state wether thats both motors together or each motor's draw ? If it is listed at 50 amps and you used the arb wire harness it is odd you mentioned 2 supply wires ? Is one for control & 1 for a relay on the 50+ amp circuit ? If there are in fact 2 supplys direct to motors each requiring 50+ amp there should have been some obviously large wires in the harness or the harness sets you up with relay and you run the main power ? #4, stranded, with proper connections & fuses/breakers is what the draw requires. Even then you should run a test because the resistance created by the length, terminals materials, & connections could have even properly done #4 circuit overloaded, E9999 has posted some basic data that would give you some rough numbers on resistance/impedence of specific wire gauge over a certain length.
 
So that would be under supplied because the specs show a max of 68 under certain conditions & 50 nominal so a circuit rated to 50 minus 3% voltage would be insufficient. Now add in whatever connector & connector material & the resistance assoc. with it, temp, and it could be quite under sized.
 
peesalot said:
So that would be under supplied because the specs show a max of 68 under certain conditions & 50 nominal so a circuit rated to 50 minus 3% voltage would be insufficient. Now add in whatever connector & connector material & the resistance assoc. with it, temp, and it could be quite under sized.
Click to expand...
I believe the 68 amps is the draw for the whole compressor system. The two motors are powered individually with their own wires, and their own individual fuses, supplied by ARB at 40 amps.

It’s two 6 gauge wires, not just one.

ARB Twin Compressor Installation Guide

arbusa.com arbusa.com

Interestingly enough, the ARB install guide recommends 10 gauge for extending the length. Doesn’t seem like good info to me, I wonder what their logic is?
 
Bumping this...has anyone had their dual compressor have one of the motors intermittently drop in and out?

I'm using all of the supplied materials and the Slee second battery kit so the battery and compressor are right next to each other.
 
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