Anyone done the York 210 oil mod...... (2 Viewers)

[flintknapper]

Edit:

No longer applies: Testing done.

 

[flintknapper]

the thing to remember is that the pump was originally used for an AC application and the low side is still pressurized so it's un likely this would be an issue in that application.

When it was a "closed" system...that holds true. Now that the system is open to atmospheric pressure, I don't think it still applies.

Or maybe I have misunderstood your meaning....(I am good at that).

 

[landtank]

I was saying that in the AC application the oil blow by probably wouldn't happen but is now because the low side is at atmosphere.

Looking forward to your testing.

 

[flintknapper]

I was saying that in the AC application the oil blow by probably wouldn't happen but is now because the low side is at atmosphere.

Gotcha!

Thanks.


I am sure I will need help as I try to figure this one out, so you guys get ready for my questions.

Lots of sharp minds here (not mine), so I will need to draw from that resource.

 

[alia176]

If your tests prove positive, then couldn't you simply vent the crank case to the atmosphere? I've seen those tiny, brass filters on exhaust ports on pneumatic valves that should work for this app.

 

[flintknapper]

If your tests prove positive, then couldn't you simply vent the crank case to the atmosphere? I've seen those tiny, brass filters on exhaust ports on pneumatic valves that should work for this app.

Possibly, and I intend to try that first.

But, I want to set up the system so that I can also have vacuum assist from the suction side and can regulate the amount as well.

I want to be able to test it all at one sitting.

Of course, the simplest procedure (that nets the desired result) will be what I settle on.

It's of no use if I manage to curtail oil loss...but had to modify the whole damn compressor in the process.

If I can't come up with something acceptable that folks with ordinary skills can do, then I will concede defeat and just add oil to it regularly.

We'll see.

I am a "tinkerer at heart" so I don't mind doing it, and I do know when to quit. Well usually.

 

[LandCrusher'70]

If your tests prove positive, then couldn't you simply vent the crank case to the atmosphere? I've seen those tiny, brass filters on exhaust ports on pneumatic valves that should work for this app.

My initial thought would be that the brass filter would become a 'sprinkler' under my hood!
I would think that it would be better to route the breather line back into the fresh air (intake) line.


Very interesting. I'll be watching for your results.

 

[landtank]

another reason for venting to the intake is to keep outside elements from entering the case such as water. If this is going to be mounted on a 1FZ-FE with the kit that Slee offers it will get soaked when it rains out.

 

[alia176]

My only concern I have with venting to the intake is that the oil will get compressed and spewed out the outlet, thereby making the air oil separator perform double duty. The object here is to keep the outlet air as dry as possible.

On the other hand, keeping a negative pressure in the crankcase may just keep the oil from going out in to the air stream!!!

Responding to Landcrusher's thought:

In theory, the crankcase *shouldn't* be under a negative pressure so perhaps sucking in atmosphere isn't a problem...? As far as splashing the engine bay with the brass filter, could happen but oil level isn't typically at the level of the fill hole. Hence the reason to make a make shift flexible dip stick on which only the last 1/2" (not sure exactly) of the tip is suppose to be covered with oil (per York). One could simply extend the brass filter couple of inches above the fill hole for added precautions.

Good inputs.

 

[flintknapper]

All of the above are valid concerns. Thanks for the input.

We'll just have to see what happens.

 

[landtank]

back a ways I mentioned an inline filter on the vent line. I was thinking something along the lines of an inline gas filter for small engines. Just something to hamper the migration of oil back into the intake.

 

[flintknapper]

Well gentlemen…..I’m done.

Unfortunately, the news is “bad news” as concerns significantly reducing oil loss beyond what is being done already (oil galley block).

I vented the case of the “Sacrificial” York in hopes of discovering an additional source of oil migration.

Hint: Do not bother venting your York. It had only a marginal effect on the amount of oil that travels through the oil galley and after a time… the vent begins to weep oil itself.

The real culprit is in the design of the pistons themselves. Their fitment to the bore allows the splash lubrication in the crank case to be carried up the cylinder walls. I tore down my brand new compressor and compared it against the used (Sacrificial) one. Results were identical.

Here is the used unit with oil galley blocked, case vented, dry and ready to test:

Continued next post…………………….

 

[flintknapper]

Here is the same unit after being run 60 seconds at 850 RPM with 12 ozs. of lube in the case. Note the oil on top of the pistons:

Now, here is where things get interesting. Below…is the same unit run 60 seconds at 850 RPM with only (6) ozs. of lube in the case:

Quite a difference. This supports what others have said about oil level making a noticeable difference.

Continued next post………………….

 

[flintknapper]

I did the same testing with my brand new compressor and got exactly the same results. The new compressor has perfect cross-hatching on the cylinder walls and new rings, so even though the rings are not yet seated, we know that the unit is in good shape. Note: The unit pictured here is actually a cast iron "Tecumseh", but roughly the same thing as the York 210

And last, the easiest way to plug the oil galley is to pull the top of the unit to give access to the hole shown here:

My conclusions:

1. Venting the case serves no useful purpose.

2. Plugging the oil galley does restrict oil flow, but the effect is not dramatic.

3. Crank case oil level (when kept to a minimum) had the greatest effect controlling oil loss.

4. Basic design features of the York make it impossible to eliminate oil discharge.



My thoughts:

1. Head pressure when the unit is running may reduce the amount of oil that occurs on the piston tops.

2. The oil that does migrate past the rings and onto the piston tops… while excessive….is still a good thing. We now have a compressor that is an open system (subject to atmospheric pressure and moisture). Many of these units will not be used for long periods of time. So, it is beneficial that the cylinder walls are coated with oil to the degree that they are. I plan on cycling mine at least monthly to keep things from getting rusty.

In closing:

The compressor kicked my ass! I really thought (and hoped) there would be a way to greatly reduce the oil discharge, something everyone had overlooked. But, in the end…it came down to a design feature that can not be worked around.

Sorry guys, I failed.

Flint.

 

[landtank]

I didn't realize it was a two piston setup which would negate the need for venting the case, one piston cancels out the other.

next question, is there more than one ring on the piston and are they properly indexed? If all the rings where installed so the breaks lined up it might lead to more oil passing by.

 

[flintknapper]

I didn't realize it was a two piston setup which would negate the need for venting the case, one piston cancels out the other.

next question, is there more than one ring on the piston and are they properly indexed? If all the rings where installed so the breaks lined up it might lead to more oil passing by.

Rick,

I don't know how many rings are on the piston, but probably more than one.

This is all the info I have been able to find on the units:

Technical Support Material

I've been searching for an exploded view of a 210, but haven't had any luck yet.

I just finished doing the oil mod. on the compressor I installed on my Early Bronco. I suctioned out a little oil and ran it with open ports (but top on). It did pretty well.

We will just have to resign ourselves to a certain amount of oil discharge and keep our eyes on the oil level. Looks like 8-10 ozs. is about as much as you can get away with.

I'm certain some compressors will belch more oil than others too.

 

[landtank]

I did some digging around and it seems that replacing the piston rings or whatever is in there is not part of a rebuild. I've got a York on the bench that I'll take apart when the time comes to see WTF is up with all the oil. But there are a few projects ahead of it.

 

[flintknapper]

I did some digging around and it seems that replacing the piston rings or whatever is in there is not part of a rebuild. I've got a York on the bench that I'll take apart when the time comes to see WTF is up with all the oil. But there are a few projects ahead of it.

Rick,

Here is a nice write up with good pics. for replacing all gaskets. Just found it.


York Gasket and O-Ring Replacement - Page 1 of 4

You'll have to visit all four pages.

 

[Beowulf]

What if you ran the York with no oil in the crankcase?

Could the rings be replaced with a teflon type like they have in electric air compressors that have no lubrication?

-B-

 

[landtank]

Rick,

Here is a nice write up with good pics. for replacing all gaskets. Just found it.


York Gasket and O-Ring Replacement - Page 1 of 4

You'll have to visit all four pages.

I saw that one. I think what your seeing is just worn rings. It would be nice to see what they are made of and their construction.