Any California BAR referee's in here?

[Jerzfj40]

I have a question for any California Bureau of Automotive Repair Referee in here, or anybody familiar with carburator to throttle body swaps . I have a 1977 FJ40 that the previous owner swapped in a 1972 SBC. It was done in the late 70's and BAR re-classified smog certs to comply with a 72 SBC engine. I have a BAR plate on the door pillar showing requirements. I have owned this vehicle for 12 years and have it sucessfully smogged every 2 years as required.
My question: Can i swap in a GM throttle body as long as i retain everything required on my BAR tag and be C.A.R.B. compliant?
I am thinking of installing the Howell TBI universal kit.
Any knowlegeble advice would be appreciated.

 

[65swb45]

Considering that you KNOW the engine is older than the rig and BAR will not certify ANY conversion where the engine is older than the rig any more, I think you're playing with fire going down this road. Sure the end result should blow cleaner out the tailpipe, but BAR has a very poor track record when it comes to logic and common sense.

My .02

Mark A.

 

[Jerzfj40]

Thanks for your advice Mark. I just dont know why it would make any difference.I still get my yearly renewal from the DMV. The year of vehicle is shown as a 77. When i take it to a STAR only smog place, i show them the BAR sticker and they do a smog check based on the info on the sticker. What would give them cause for failure, other than seeing the throttle body on the rig?
This is beginning to get old and i just may have to sell it.

 

[Pin_Head]

It probably can be done, but I don't think that it is worth the effort in dealing with the vicissitudes of the BAR. If you don't like the ruling of one office, you could always try to find a referee that is more to your liking.

 

[Jerzfj40]

Yeah. it would be nice to be able to find a reasonable and fair BAR Ref to sort this out for me. Im considering other options, like just dropping in a clean running new crate motor. Another option is changing out my Edelbrock 650cfm. to a 600. Maybe it would run a little leaner to pass smog. The engine i have now is just a stock sbc truck motor and maybe the 650 is too much .

 

[Fast Eddy]

So you're saying it no longer passes the tail pipe test?

IMO, you're going to have to swap in a motor from a TBI year complete rather than just upgrade to TBI.

 

[terrx]

My question: Can i swap in a GM throttle body as long as i retain everything required on my BAR tag and be C.A.R.B. compliant?

On the BAR tag "C/I" refers to carb vs. injection and yours is a "C", so technically you won't be retaining everything on the sticker. (also no more "oth" HEI)

The BAR sticker looks like it might be for a 65 or 66 VIN. Ref: http://www.sor.com/catframe.sor
If it's a 77 body on an older frame perhaps it could be titled as a 65/66 and be exempt...

 

[Jerzfj40]

I checked the frame Vin # and it is FJ40245054. Looks like a 77 based on your Spector link.

 

[Jerzfj40]

So you're saying it no longer passes the tail pipe test?

IMO, you're going to have to swap in a motor from a TBI year complete rather than just upgrade to TBI.

It runs pretty rich and has to be "adjusted" to get it to pass. Then it runs like crap.Im just fed up with having do this every 2 years and want to find out what my options are to make it run great and be CARB legal.

 

[Fast Eddy]

I'm not much of an expert on carbs, but could that not be helped by changing jets?

 

[65swb45]

Q-Jet all the way. Clean and lean low end, power when you need it.

 

[reddingcruiser]

I have called the BAR several times to ask questions. I didn't always like the answer but at least I knew where I stood, and amazingly enough I even got some information that helpful. The last guy I spoke with was actually a car nut and pretty frank about ways to work within the rules.

That being said, I still think the whole process is a bunch of .

 

[B y r o n]

As mentioned earlier about the tag indicating "C" for carburetor, it may depend on if the Howell kit has a CARB number with documentation as to replacement of carburetors. Other than that it looks like you might have to wait a few years more.

 

[reddingcruiser]

As mentioned earlier about the tag indicating "C" for carburetor, it may depend on if the Howell kit has a carb number with documentation as to replacement of carburetors. Other than that it looks like you might have to wait a few years more.

I don't think waiting will help. In a world of increasingly punitive emissions regulations for ALL forms of fossil fuel powered vehicles, it is unlikely that California will move the 1975 exemption cut-off date.

 

[CRZR45]

Dealt with them many times... Let sleeping Lions Sleep !! They can make your project hell if they are having a bad day ( just like some CA DMV workers..) I would just do what mark said And run it.

 

[Fast Eddy]

it is unlikely that California will move the 1975 exemption cut-off date.

CA SB 1224 failed by a margin of 4-3 in 2012. It would have moved the exemption from 1975 to 1980. F*ckers.

 

[surfpig]

I have called the BAR several times to ask questions. I didn't always like the answer but at least I knew where I stood, and amazingly enough I even got some information that helpful. The last guy I spoke with was actually a car nut and pretty frank about ways to work within the rules.

That being said, I still think the whole process is a bunch of .

Agreed. I have often had good, friendly advice (not always).

I agree even more with your second line though.

 

[pavieSD]

If you need to stay with a carb but have trouble passing emissions, you could always keep a second carb on hand. One that you have adjusted with smaller jets, higher idle etc. Then when you go to the smog place, swap in the "smog adjusted carb", pass the test, and then when you get home, swap back. It's not like they're going to check the carb to the engine and since you're already far from stock, you may have luck with this approach.

Personally, this is exactly why my only real requirement when looking for my FJ40 was pre1975. Dealing with smog every 2 years on a 35+ year old rig is only going to get worse as time goes by.

 

[Pin_Head]

It is the main reason I sold my '76. I was tired of dealing with the emission check for something I only used a few times a year.