If I followed correctly, we don’t have lab results for the oil(s) yet right?
How about putting an OEM reservoir just to eliminate any doubt?
How about putting an OEM reservoir just to eliminate any doubt?
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Right. No lab results are available yet. A new OEM reservoir was added in December of 2021.If I followed correctly, we don’t have lab results for the oil(s) yet right?
How about putting an OEM reservoir just to eliminate any doubt?
Thanks Paul. I'll try that and check the Banjo bolts for color.Here's what I'd do:
I'd get free kit (small sample bottles) for oil return from/to Blackstone. Fill them and set aside. Then take all remaining old fluid. Strain though a good N95 mask. Wash remaining fluid through mask with solvent, like Coleman lantern fluid. Then inspect mask for practicals.
There is no way this many new OEM pumps bad. So for some reason your reservoir, rack, bolts or lines are causing and issue. That started in the beginning with first part(s) and or fluid you installed. Whatever it is, keeps taking out the pump. That kind of heat you felt, must be a sign of excessive fiction or pressure or both.
You can get pump kit, and rebuilt. Rack also, but kind costly and requires tools you may not have. Buying new, would save time a give 1 yr wty.
I would then clear (blow out) all lines and hoses, with shop air. The ATF fluid. Clean the reservoir, while off vehicle. Then replace rack & pump at same time. New fluid, I'd use M1 ATF.
I make sure correct banjos used:
We have 2 different banjo bolts on either end of HP line. Not sure if possible, to mix them up. But just may be if one did, it may effect pressure or flow or both. In ever case of 06-07. The Vane pump banjo is silver, the rack side dark color.
The below pictures are from an 07LX (first 2) & 06LC (3rd pci) , which there are variation through the years. If I find 98-02 pictures, I'll post them later. But it seem hole size, off-set and position is a little different between these and rack side has a valve.
Rack side banjo bolt (IIRC)
View attachment 3126643
This would be Vane pump banjo.
View attachment 3126649
Below is Old OEM and new aftermarket HP line. It's my understand that is a reducer in center of rubber hose(s). If debris in it, could cause pressure/flow issues. So I'd back flush, once both end disconnected.
View attachment 3126660
This from 06LC
View attachment 3126703
On my 99 model, the bolts are very different from the rack vs. the pump side.Here's what I'd do:
I'd get free kit (small sample bottles) for oil return from/to Blackstone. Fill them and set aside. Then take all remaining old fluid. Strain though a good N95 mask. Wash remaining fluid through mask with solvent, like Coleman lantern fluid. Then inspect mask for practicals.
There is no way this many new OEM pumps bad. So for some reason your reservoir, rack, bolts or lines are causing and issue. That started in the beginning with first part(s) and or fluid you installed. Whatever it is, keeps taking out the pump. That kind of heat you felt, must be a sign of excessive fiction or pressure or both.
You can get pump kit, and rebuilt. Rack also, but kind costly and requires tools you may not have. Buying new, would save time a give 1 yr wty.
I would then clear (blow out) all lines and hoses, with shop air. The ATF fluid. Clean the reservoir, while off vehicle. Then replace rack & pump at same time. New fluid, I'd use M1 ATF.
I make sure correct banjos used:
We have 2 different banjo bolts on either end of HP line. Not sure if possible, to mix them up. But just may be if one did, it may effect pressure or flow or both. In ever case of 06-07. The Vane pump banjo is silver, the rack side dark color.
The below pictures are from an 07LX (first 2) & 06LC (3rd pci) , which there are variation through the years. If I find 98-02 pictures, I'll post them later. But it seem hole size, off-set and position is a little different between these and rack side has a valve.
Rack side banjo bolt (IIRC)
View attachment 3126643
This would be Vane pump banjo.
View attachment 3126649
Below is Old OEM and new aftermarket HP line. It's my understand that is a reducer in center of rubber hose(s). If debris in it, could cause pressure/flow issues. So I'd back flush, once both end disconnected.
View attachment 3126660
This from 06LC
View attachment 3126703
Thank you Paul. I will go looking for an IF temp gun to look for hot spots. Another clue is interstate driving on the 17 hour trip back from CO seems to be a sure way to roast a pump.Some random ramblings
I've replace a good number of HP lines (either had factory line rebuilt (once) or used after market (many)). OEM HP lines fail (weep) very often, so I've never considered the high cost of OEM worth it. I've never had issue with aftermarket HP lines, they've worked very well.
Racks I've replaced w/OEM only, having one OEM from LX VGRS rebuilt and reinstalled. The deciding factory to replace a rack, has always been leak(s). I will note. I've had issue with both new OEM Rack & Vane pump for Dealership parts dep. Issue was someone returned to Toyota a rack that was damaged in the HP line inlet/threads. In an OEM boxed vane pump, someone returned replacing with used (cleaned) non OEM vane pump. Otherwise new OEM, have both worked without issues.
Vane pumps:
I've only had to R&R 3 (they usually leak as bearing fails, due to not servicing fluid properly). Vane pump, is the least of all components of the 100 & 200 series PS system I've seen go bad. I'd not put my hands on Vane pump after warm-up until yesterday, just to see how hot. It wasn't very hot, just warm! But wasn't until ~10 minutes after shut down. I'll try one while running after driving.
Reservoir:
I've never had cap off while running or even flushing engine off. But I'll try that also. I would expect to see, what you saw. That being a plume of fluid coming up where cap steam normally fills the valve.
The heat you reported (like exhaust) is the biggest clue:
All the new Vane pump takes care of a fluke in new OEM pump overheating. Using Mobil 1 helps keep temp down. It one of the reason I love the stuff, as it runs cooler in PS or Transmission than any fluid I've used.
Heat is either caused by fiction, pressure or both. Pump would be fiction point from moving part of equation. As it's only high speed moving part. A new one should/would not run excessively hot. Even a bad used one would likely not be that hot. Provided they get ample ATF fluid through suction hose from reservoir. If starved of fluid, yes it would burn up. But then you'd not see fluid movement in reservoir (cap off), as that is sign fluid circulating through the system.
So why would a Vane pump run so hot.
First though a contaminated in system, possible metal or sludge or even a piece of rubber (like a seal out of place) stuck at chock point where fluid is passing. The screen in reservoir should capture metal, before fluid carries it to pump. If the screen become to clogged, it will restrict flow. If flow so restricted pump starved, vane pump would run hot and fail.
Rack only has minor fiction in gearing, and only while turning. But it is keep under high pressure and pressure increase during turns. Excessive pressure could be from restriction of fluid flow before or within, or even lack of flow control. Pressure issue like a restriction, would have to be from a point beginning after Vane pump (since you had so many new), beginning at vane banjo bolt. Next point being reducer in HP line, than banjo at rack end of HP line (which you also replaced). Next point could be within rack.
A fluid restrict point in rack, could cause fluid to get very hot. In this event, rack at some point and return line should be very hot. Touch it or check with IF temp gun, along entire length. I'd actually start at Vane moving along HP line. A restrict, would not only cause increase pressure at chock point, it would be fluid fiction point also. Both creating heat. So if you find a hot spot, it would be very big clue. I'd tart while cold and keep checking as it heats/runs.
I suspect a restriction, creating excessive pressure/heat. I suspect it's a restriction in the rack. So this is why I suggested blowing out all lines, clean reservoir, either rebuilding or replacing vane pump and install a new rack. All at same time.
I have an IR gun I can bring next weekend.Thank you Paul. I will go looking for an IF temp gun to look for hot spots. Another clue is interstate driving on the 17 hour trip back from CO seems to be a sure way to roast a pump.
Thank you. That will be a good time to check it.I have an IR gun I can bring next weekend.
Thanks Paul. I'll try that and check the Banjo bolts for color.
We went though this on my son’s 2000 TLC.
Replaced reservoir, lines, and rack to “make it happy”.
It was the rack. No idea how or why it developed problems at 2.5 years. I was in a bind to get it back on the trail and had a local shop replace the rack, pump, reservoir, and tie rod ends. It drives like new again or the way it did after replacing everything. I will measure line temperatures to track how the replacement is running.Your system is run at extreme pressure. The HP line has a reducer, but you've changed that, reservoir and pump already. Going back to OP and IIRC, first you replaced the rack. If this the case it's either the rack or banjo bolts. How could it be anything else!