An ethical dilemma?

[reconranger]

I got stuck on "clicky", then "cliquey"

Holy, chit, at least get your wife/lawyer to proofread your diatribe.

And, you know this thing is being recorded, right? Dumb.

 

[ccasteel]

So this thread sits idle for a couple days.. and who brings it back to the top? I think someone is in desperate need of some attention.

 

[monniepoo]

Like me? Lol

 

[Trapper50cal]

So this thread sits idle for a couple days.. and who brings it back to the top? I think someone is in desperate need of some attention.

It seems odd that he chimes in every week or so but doesn't really offer anything new in his defense. Just the same misdirection, the same debunked line of reasoning (if you can call it that), the same obfuscation, the same attempts to mischaracterize other's statements, the same statements regarding "conceding" something or other although he isn't really conceding to anyone other than himself and his perception (which is actually known as an "admission")....oh, and some more thinly veiled threats and ad hominem attacks on Jim. This thread has left the first page a couple times and he has deemed it necessary to bring it back himself. The reason escapes me.

 

[Trapper50cal]

Like me? Lol

Monnie, am I missing an inside joke? You know Independent doesn't have an "A" right? Or are you referring to being related to a sister's daughter? Then wouldn't it be "Independaunt"?

 

[crushers]

there is a solution to this issue ...
runs on batteries and saves the guy a lot of work.

I think someone is in desperate need of some attention.

Like me? Lol

 

[Pighead]

there is a solution to this issue ...
runs on batteries and saves the guy a lot of work.

A Prius?

 

[semlin]

Like me? Lol

[ golf clap ]

 

[fj83landcruiser]

So many questions about possible resolution. Copy of the email I sent the actual owner. 90% of this thread is BS and speculation, however I do agree with helping the owner out. Is Jim C going to do this work for free? LOL....he is such a good guy looking out for the owner, we'll see. How about my $1500 cash and Jim C's time to help? Sounds good to me!

Owner name Deleted,



The sale on your FJ40 has sure turned ugly. Jim Chenoweth of TLC Performance has sure gone the extra mile to justify what appears to be a total rebuild of your engine and transmission amongst other things. This comes down to a disagreement between two shops, I feel most of the work Jim claims is needed was most likely an oversell. Jim and his web forum henchmen are cowards that has openly blasted and threatened my family, myself and my business in open web forums. I've never spoke to him directly, but he is sure happy to exploit me to make a buck and justify the job he is doing for you. He has also posted your name in these same forums.



Obviously, you vehicle is on the other side of the US, It is not reasonable for me to ask for it back in pieces to see what is actually wrong to repair or upgrade it. I understand you are holding the bag on this deal. I never implied any type of warranty, but I would like to offer you $1500.00 to help with the fixes. I know you have never asked for a refund, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I'm disappointed this sale came to this, the FJ was running and driving great in my care, all I can see now is a tore apart vehicle that can't be verified at all. Bottom line, if Jim C is such a great guy looking out for you like he claims, perhaps he should give you a discount or do all this "necessary" work for free. I cringe at the thought my $1500.00 goes in his pocket, but I think you have been through enough so I'm willing to help. If you accept my offer please send me your USPS mailing address, I'll get it out today. I do apologize for this fiasco.



Regards, Brett Young

 

[ravewoofer]

So many questions about possible resolution. Copy of the email I sent the actual owner. 90% of this thread is BS and speculation, however I do agree with helping the owner out. Is Jim C going to do this work for free? LOL....he is such a good guy looking out for the owner, we'll see. How about my $1500 cash and Jim C's time to help? Sounds good to me!

Owner name Deleted,



The sale on your FJ40 has sure turned ugly. Jim Chenoweth of TLC Performance has sure gone the extra mile to justify what appears to be a total rebuild of your engine and transmission amongst other things. This comes down to a disagreement between two shops, I feel most of the work Jim claims is needed was most likely an oversell. Jim and his web forum henchmen are cowards that has openly blasted and threatened my family, myself and my business in open web forums. I've never spoke to him directly, but he is sure happy to exploit me to make a buck and justify the job he is doing for you. He has also posted your name in these same forums.



Obviously, you vehicle is on the other side of the US, It is not reasonable for me to ask for it back in pieces to see what is actually wrong to repair or upgrade it. I understand you are holding the bag on this deal. I never implied any type of warranty, but I would like to offer you $1500.00 to help with the fixes. I know you have never asked for a refund, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I'm disappointed this sale came to this, the FJ was running and driving great in my care, all I can see now is a tore apart vehicle that can't be verified at all. Bottom line, if Jim C is such a great guy looking out for you like he claims, perhaps he should give you a discount or do all this "necessary" work for free. I cringe at the thought my $1500.00 goes in his pocket, but I think you have been through enough so I'm willing to help. If you accept my offer please send me your USPS mailing address, I'll get it out today. I do apologize for this fiasco.



Regards, Brett Young

Jeebus, dude. Whatever happenend to your lawyer posse?

 

[re_guderian]

So many questions about possible resolution. Copy of the email I sent the actual owner. 90% of this thread is BS and speculation, however I do agree with helping the owner out. Is Jim C going to do this work for free? LOL....he is such a good guy looking out for the owner, we'll see. How about my $1500 cash and Jim C's time to help? Sounds good to me!

Owner name Deleted,

The sale on your FJ40 has sure turned ugly. Jim Chenoweth of TLC Performance has sure gone the extra mile to justify what appears to be a total rebuild of your engine and transmission amongst other things. This comes down to a disagreement between two shops, I feel most of the work Jim claims is needed was most likely an oversell. Jim and his web forum henchmen are cowards that has openly blasted and threatened my family, myself and my business in open web forums. I've never spoke to him directly, but he is sure happy to exploit me to make a buck and justify the job he is doing for you. He has also posted your name in these same forums.

Obviously, you vehicle is on the other side of the US, It is not reasonable for me to ask for it back in pieces to see what is actually wrong to repair or upgrade it. I understand you are holding the bag on this deal. I never implied any type of warranty, but I would like to offer you $1500.00 to help with the fixes. I know you have never asked for a refund, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I'm disappointed this sale came to this, the FJ was running and driving great in my care, all I can see now is a tore apart vehicle that can't be verified at all. Bottom line, if Jim C is such a great guy looking out for you like he claims, perhaps he should give you a discount or do all this "necessary" work for free. I cringe at the thought my $1500.00 goes in his pocket, but I think you have been through enough so I'm willing to help. If you accept my offer please send me your USPS mailing address, I'll get it out today. I do apologize for this fiasco.

Regards, Brett Young

I'm pretty sure you couldn't be gracious if you tried, but even this bitter offering is a step in the right direction. Kudos for doing the right thing, even if you're an ass while doing it! Customer should take it and run as a lesson learned, even though it prolly won't come close to covering the cost of getting the vehicle like he thought it was when it left your shop. jmho

 

[NorCal Cruiser]

So many questions about possible resolution. Copy of the email I sent the actual owner. 90% of this thread is BS and speculation, however I do agree with helping the owner out. Is Jim C going to do this work for free? LOL....he is such a good guy looking out for the owner, we'll see. How about my $1500 cash and Jim C's time to help? Sounds good to me!

Owner name Deleted,



The sale on your FJ40 has sure turned ugly. Jim Chenoweth of TLC Performance has sure gone the extra mile to justify what appears to be a total rebuild of your engine and transmission amongst other things. This comes down to a disagreement between two shops, I feel most of the work Jim claims is needed was most likely an oversell. Jim and his web forum henchmen are cowards that has openly blasted and threatened my family, myself and my business in open web forums. I've never spoke to him directly, but he is sure happy to exploit me to make a buck and justify the job he is doing for you. He has also posted your name in these same forums.



Obviously, you vehicle is on the other side of the US, It is not reasonable for me to ask for it back in pieces to see what is actually wrong to repair or upgrade it. I understand you are holding the bag on this deal. I never implied any type of warranty, but I would like to offer you $1500.00 to help with the fixes. I know you have never asked for a refund, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I'm disappointed this sale came to this, the FJ was running and driving great in my care, all I can see now is a tore apart vehicle that can't be verified at all. Bottom line, if Jim C is such a great guy looking out for you like he claims, perhaps he should give you a discount or do all this "necessary" work for free. I cringe at the thought my $1500.00 goes in his pocket, but I think you have been through enough so I'm willing to help. If you accept my offer please send me your USPS mailing address, I'll get it out today. I do apologize for this fiasco.



Regards, Brett Young

Why should Jim discount his work or work for free? He didn't cause these issues- he just brought them to light. I'm sure Jim would cringe at the thought of his work putting money in your pocket.

 

[SHUSH]

$1500? that's like cutting off my arm, complaning you didn't do it, and then offering me a finger. (probably the middle one)

Jim C must have lots of hours and parts into this all ready......def. more than $1500

 

[canucksafari]

Jeebus, dude. Whatever happenend to your lawyer posse?

My thoughts exactly. I figure there is enough BS here to fertile the whole Mid-West. But it makes for some interesting .

 

[Trapper50cal]

So many questions about possible resolution. Copy of the email I sent the actual owner. 90% of this thread is BS and speculation, however I do agree with helping the owner out. Is Jim C going to do this work for free? LOL....he is such a good guy looking out for the owner, we'll see. How about my $1500 cash and Jim C's time to help? Sounds good to me!

Owner name Deleted,



The sale on your FJ40 has sure turned ugly. Jim Chenoweth of TLC Performance has sure gone the extra mile to justify what appears to be a total rebuild of your engine and transmission amongst other things. This comes down to a disagreement between two shops, I feel most of the work Jim claims is needed was most likely an oversell. Jim and his web forum henchmen are cowards that has openly blasted and threatened my family, myself and my business in open web forums. I've never spoke to him directly, but he is sure happy to exploit me to make a buck and justify the job he is doing for you. He has also posted your name in these same forums.



Obviously, you vehicle is on the other side of the US, It is not reasonable for me to ask for it back in pieces to see what is actually wrong to repair or upgrade it. I understand you are holding the bag on this deal. I never implied any type of warranty, but I would like to offer you $1500.00 to help with the fixes. I know you have never asked for a refund, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I'm disappointed this sale came to this, the FJ was running and driving great in my care, all I can see now is a tore apart vehicle that can't be verified at all. Bottom line, if Jim C is such a great guy looking out for you like he claims, perhaps he should give you a discount or do all this "necessary" work for free. I cringe at the thought my $1500.00 goes in his pocket, but I think you have been through enough so I'm willing to help. If you accept my offer please send me your USPS mailing address, I'll get it out today. I do apologize for this fiasco.



Regards, Brett Young

Paraphrased for accuracy...

Jim Chenoweth sure has a found a lot wrong with the truck you bought...those gouges in the cylinder wall sure do justify a rebuild, I wonder what else in that motor can't be trusted now. I understand that the pistons are hard to come by. Jim C, as a long trusted member of the Land Cruiser community, is not the kind of guy that would up-sell to get extra work, he's a busy man already due to the fact that his services are universally sought after. I concede that I have half-assed this build and relied on sizzle rather than substance to justify the $30K price tag on this truck. Nobody has actually threatened me, my family or my business, they have only highlighted my history and the apparent lack of care, knowledge and expertise I bring to the table. That I feel threatened probably has to do with the fact that their criticisms are accurate. My own actions threaten my and my family's financial well-being. He tried to talk directly to me but I advised him to communicate to me via my lawyer. I know you are going to be into this truck for ALOT more money to get it right, the way it should have been when you paid me $30K for it. I'm going to try and nip this in the bud and offer you pennies on the dollar as a refund. I don't want to, but my image is the most important thing to me so I want to appear to be getting in front of this. Please accept my offer so my psyche will be vindicated and so I will be immune to any litigation in the future.


To the New Owner....

If you plan on anything other than putting this in the loss column, DO NOT accept this offer. The seller is attempting to stave off the assumption of actual, reasonable damages and litigation. Obviously.
If you plan on just filing it in the loss column, take the $1500 and print $1500 dollars worth of T-shirts that express how your dealings with B Y of B, WA went...Something like, "I Went To WASHINGTON To Get A Sick Land Cruiser and All I Ended Up With Was This Polished Turd and $1500 Bucks Worth of T-Shirts"

 

[Jomama]

Paraphrased for accuracy...

Jim Chenoweth sure has a found a lot wrong with the truck you bought...those gouges in the cylinder wall sure do justify a rebuild, I wonder what else in that motor can't be trusted now. I understand that the pistons are hard to come by. Jim C, as a long trusted member of the Land Cruiser community, is not the kind of guy that would up-sell to get extra work, he's a busy man already due to the fact that his services are universally sought after. I concede that I have half-assed this build and relied on sizzle rather than substance to justify the $30K price tag on this truck. Nobody has actually threatened me, my family or my business, they have only highlighted my history and the apparent lack of care, knowledge and expertise I bring to the table. That I feel threatened probably has to do with the fact that their criticisms are accurate. My own actions threaten my and my family's financial well-being. He tried to talk directly to me but I advised him to communicate to me via my lawyer. I know you are going to be into this truck for ALOT more money to get it right, the way it should have been when you paid me $30K for it. I'm going to try and nip this in the bud and offer you pennies on the dollar as a refund. I don't want to, but my image is the most important thing to me so I want to appear to be getting in front of this. Please accept my offer so my psyche will be vindicated and so I will be immune to any litigation in the future.


.

lol

 

[Fly Rod]

Jeebus, dude. Whatever happenend to your lawyer posse?

She told him he was screwed if he were sued. She recommended he suck tail and try to avoid a conviction for fraud.

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

"I do not agree in the slightest with your "pro" opinion. Any future correspondence will be handled by my attorney/wife."

That made it clear that there was to be no more direct communication to try to resolve the situation.

Being unfamiliar with the term "attorney/wife", I googled it to see what it was. This came up. Jim, I'd be scared, if I were you.

 

[Pierps]

...but even this bitter offering is a step in the right direction. Kudos for doing the right thing...

Agreed with this. I won't comment on whether the $1,500 is a fair offer or not, or how Jim and the CO will view it. But this is definitely a step in the right direction, Brett. It's hard to change course once you've seemingly dug in on a different position, and you deserve recognition for that.

Imagine how this could've gone if you led with this, rather than threats of legal action and counter-attacks on Jim and the current owner? Simply put, you hold the power to defuse the situation. If I were the current owner, here's what would've righted the ship for me:

1) Offer to fly out on your own dime and inspect the vehicle in Jim's shop,

2) Explain to the customer what you meant when you vouched for the condition of the vehicle, and try to understand why the customer believes your representation of its condition doesn't match reality

3) Agree to share the cost of repairs in some way.

If your initial response had been more along these lines, although you would've gotten some flack from members on here, it never would've gone this far. Yes, the above would hurt your bottom line. But I'll tell you what, it's worth the investment. Even if you have 100 completely satisfied customers, it only takes one of these situations to put you out of business. So it's worthwhile to take a hit on this sale and do what it takes to rectify the situation. And of course, it's just the right thing to do!

A little more advice for you (take it or leave it). It seems that you are trying to move the mud community's perception of you more toward the positive, so with that goal in mind, I suggest you stop attacking Jim... even if you believe in your own mind that it's warranted. Whether you believe he deserves the respect he's been given by the members of this forum is irrelevant; the fact is that he has that respect, and the more you attack him, the more you will be perceived as the outsider/bad guy... and the more people will show their support for him and their outrage toward you. This isn't so much a mob mentality- this is people supporting somebody who they respect. Imagine if you were in Jim's position- having earned the respect of the landcruiser community... you get there by handling situations like this correctly and being as forthright and honest as possible.

Anyway, it takes balls to change course, so here's to a clean(ish) resolution between parties.

 

[crushers]

i am curious ...
if Brett never talked to Jim directly how did this ""I do not agree in the slightest with your "pro" opinion. Any future correspondence will be handled by my attorney/wife."" come to be?

seems to me, Jim tried to correspond with Brett but Brett blew him off with a threat.

<shrug> what do i know? i am not privy to the full correspondence between the 2 shops.

$1500 is not even close to the cost of parts to do the rebuild of the engine properly and then there is the machining and labor and fluids on top of that.

the proper venue is to offer the CO a full refund including shipping of the truck (in the condition it is in now) and a written apology for "missing" the flaws.