An ethical dilemma?

[custyota]

What he said above

 

[PhrogsPhorever]

What a friggin pickle pusher

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[Pierps]

Jim, where does your customer stand on all of this? Is he planning to take Brett to court?

 

[itbrokeagain]

x2 of thousands, I'd assume.
Just imagine the LandCruiser caravans to the Courthouse on the day Jim C. takes the stand...the line of character witnesses would stretch around the block.

Never met Jim or talked to him but I know several people that are good friends of his. Everything I have heard has been good. I'm in if it comes to that. I'm close enough if it happens in Ohio.

 

[FJ40Jim]

The letter is boilerplate "C&D this defamation".

I can't comment on any impending legal action on the part of the CO.

This thread was just to let Cruiser folk know that there is solid evidence of a 'Mud member misrepresenting an FJ40 that he sold. And now he is advertising trucks for sale on this forum.

 

[Pighead]

But the toothpaste cannot be put back in the tube.

If anybody could figger out how, it would be you, Jim.

 

[Pierps]

Jim,

You have done the right thing here... It seems that the facts are on your side, regardless of whether the court see it that way from a legal perspective.

In the end, good triumphs over evil even if the course is hard.

Best of luck.

 

[itbrokeagain]

Jim,

You have done the right thing here... It seems that the facts are on your side, regardless of whether the court see it that way from a legal perspective.

In the end, good triumphs over evil even if the course is hard.

Best of luck.

I'm still struggling to see what he actually did wrong.

 

[Trapper50cal]

I'm still struggling to see what he actually did wrong.

That's a struggle indeed...

 

[78fj40mg]

I'm NOT defending anyone, but please bear in mind even brand new vehicles come out of production with major issues, better known as lemons. I purchased a brand new Grand Cherokee, several years ago, with major issues at no extra cost, the transmission had to be rebuilt three times before the vehicle reached 2,000 miles on the clock. I finally went through the Jeep arbitration process which was a joke, the arbitrators were paid by Jeep, cost me lots of money for lawyers, got zero in return and sold the vehicle at big loss. S**t happens with vehicles all the time, and lawyers always win $$, no matter if they win or lose the case!

 

[nuclearlemon]

I'm NOT defending anyone, but please bear in mind even brand new vehicles come out of production with major issues, better known as lemons. I purchased a brand new Grand Cherokee, several years ago, with major issues at no extra cost, the transmission had to be rebuilt three times before the vehicle reached 2,000 miles on the clock. I finally went through the Jeep arbitration process which was a joke, the arbitrators were paid by Jeep, cost me lots of money for lawyers, got zero in return and sold the vehicle at big loss. S**t happens with vehicles all the time, and lawyers always win $$, no matter if they win or lose the case!

so you think it's ethical for someone to sell a truck with an improperly rebuilt engine and a "rebuilt" transmisssion and transfer case that haven't been touched?

yes, new cars can be crap. yes, jeep screwed you over. yes, jeep should've made it better. yes, you are ethically justified in telling everyone how jeep builds crap and then won't fix it. that's what's happening here. someone built crap (and supposedly blatently lied about other work) and someone is pointing it out so others don't get screwed.

 

[Mopdog]

This whole situation is really hard to believe, used car salesman always tell the truth, the new health care system actually is free, a flat tax system would never work, and that girl at the club really was just doing it to pay for college. I mean if we can't trust car salesman, polaticians, tax attorneys or any other variety for that matter, and strippers what do we have left. If the sarcasm didn't translate, its there.

I am certainly not defending anybody here, this situation seems criminal to me, this is just for a little perspective.

 

[nuclearlemon]

This whole situation is really hard to believe, used car salesman always tell the truth, the new health care system actually is free, a flat tax system would never work, and that girl at the club really was just doing it to pay for college. I mean if we can't trust car salesman, polaticians, tax attorneys or any other variety for that matter, and strippers what do we have left. If the sarcasm didn't translate, its there.

I am certainly not defending anybody here, this situation seems criminal to me, this is just for a little perspective.

but he says he's not a car salesman. he says this is just his "hobby". people don't trust car salesmen...that's why we buy are cruisers from fellow mudders...we hope they are decent and not out to screw everyone over. if mudders screw everyone over, then mud itself (our beloved and hallowed forum) garners a tarnished reputation. hence the reason we weed out the wentzels early on.

 

[Frankencruiser]

This thread makes me feel a little sick to my stomach, and have warm fuzzy thoughts about "old west justice". I have no legal experience, but I can't figure out anything that Jim did wrong. He gave an honest, and from what I could tell unbiased assessment of the truck. Hopefully (if it goes that far) the courts see it that way.

 

[Trapper50cal]

I'm NOT defending anyone, but please bear in mind even brand new vehicles come out of production with major issues, better known as lemons. I purchased a brand new Grand Cherokee, several years ago, with major issues at no extra cost, the transmission had to be rebuilt three times before the vehicle reached 2,000 miles on the clock. I finally went through the Jeep arbitration process which was a joke, the arbitrators were paid by Jeep, cost me lots of money for lawyers, got zero in return and sold the vehicle at big loss. S**t happens with vehicles all the time, and lawyers always win $$, no matter if they win or lose the case!

Apples v. Turnips (not even Oranges)

You are:

A: Talking about a jeep (actually, a Chrysler)
B: Talking about a new vehicle pumped out of a automated factory...
C: ...in an era of disposable vehicles
D: a vehicle that cost, what, $35K new?

whereas...

This situation involves:

A: A vehicle that cost $4000 +/- new...
B: ...in an era of Toyota Land Cruiser indestructibility...
C: ...That was supposedly brought lovingly back to immaculate condition...
D: ...By a supposed expert/hobbyist...
E: ...That was sold at a premium price due to its supposed condition...
F: ...That was sold at a premium price due to its collectibility.

The reasonable expectations of the two scenarios couldn't be more divergent.

And Ige is right, this hallowed forum is here, in part, to protect the faithful from those that would attempt to take advantage
of our love for these vehicles.

I will say this though...both Jeep (Chrysler) and BYofB,WA are banking on the reputation of the vehicles they sell, and both reputations are rooted in the past.

 

[Mopdog]

but he says he's not a car salesman. he says this is just his "hobby". people don't trust car salesmen...that's why we buy are cruisers from fellow mudders...we hope they are decent and not out to screw everyone over. if mudders screw everyone over, then mud itself (our beloved and hallowed forum) garners a tarnished reputation. hence the reason we weed out the wentzels early on.

I agree with you 100%, but 700 cruisers is not a hobby. Here in the PNW you see his ads everywhere and have probably talked to him about parts if you live around here. I can't say one way or another how many he has had but there is no shortage of them at his place. If you talk to him, and I have, he is an admitted and unrepentant flipper, spending most of your conversation with him on how much money he makes off of them. I didn't buy a vehicle from him and it didn't take me long to decide I wasn't going to regardless of the vehicle. If you were from the other coast it would be easy to be fooled, I am greatful that the mud community is here to help keep us safe in our dealings.

 

[crushers]

i don't care if you sell one vehicle or 700.
i don't care if you sell brand new or used
i don't care if you are a curber or a licensed car dealer or salesman ...

no matter what, the seller should be honest as to what they are selling.

mistakes happen, there is a huge difference between making a mistake and blatantly lying to someone. what went on with this truck is not a "mistake". it was a turd selling a turd and BOTH the seller and the truck being covered by a veneer coating that made both seem trustworthy.

i have met honest curbers and dishonest dealers (even on mud) so shop with your head and not your heart.

 

[Mopdog]

i don't care if you sell one vehicle or 700.
i don't care if you sell brand new or used
i don't care if you are a curber or a licensed car dealer or salesman ...

no matter what, the seller should be honest as to what they are selling.

mistakes happen, there is a huge difference between making a mistake and blatantly lying to someone. what went on with this truck is not a "mistake". it was a turd selling a turd and BOTH the seller and the truck being covered by a veneer coating that made both seem trustworthy.

i have met honest curbers and dishonest dealers (even on mud) so shop with your head and not your heart.

Well stated.

 

[Landpimp]

I would like to see him in the Fed Pen in Sheridan OR......I have put a few bad guys(one was a bad bad cop) there in the last year and he would have just a great time

good job Jim!

and who in there right mind would go to a forum like Prison Talk(hell I had now idea there was such a thing)

I now remember when this asshat got in trouble back in 05

other-side WA or I may payed him a visit

 

[surfpig]

I'm NOT defending anyone, but please bear in mind even brand new vehicles come out of production with major issues, better known as lemons. I purchased a brand new Grand Cherokee, several years ago, with major issues at no extra cost, the transmission had to be rebuilt three times before the vehicle reached 2,000 miles on the clock. I finally went through the Jeep arbitration process which was a joke, the arbitrators were paid by Jeep, cost me lots of money for lawyers, got zero in return and sold the vehicle at big loss. S**t happens with vehicles all the time, and lawyers always win $$, no matter if they win or lose the case!

I'm glad you got a bargain on the major issues!