A warning to anchor your vehicle before winching!

[Rkroelin]

Shouldn't the Jeep have used a recovery rope or chains to pull him up the hill, rather than winching?

They really should have pulled the pickup back off of the hill, instead of trying to winch it up hill. Further discussion revealed that the truck was pretty much hard stuck with the bumper and chassis lodged on rocks.
Pulling the truck up and into the hill just made the situation worse.

 

[Mark W]

That was my thought when I looked at the pics... going back seemed to be a lot more doable than pulling the rig uphill with the front end jammed in the hole. But not knowing the entire situation, I figured they may have had their reasons.

Pulling a rig backwards from a steep downhill position can be a bit scary... counting on the other person to stop it as soon as it is free and not come down the hill toward you. Probably not as scary as seeing the jeep come down the hill at the driver of the dodge was!


I would say that "anchored' should be reserved for when you are securing the rig to an... well... an anchor of some sort, be it something you have sunk into the ground or something natural like a rock or tree... or even a line of rigs chained together.

If you include standing on the brakes under "anchoring"... then I am anchoring the rig every time I slow for stop light.

There are times when it is productive to slam people for their mistakes... when they seem to not think they have made any... or are even bragging about the incident without realizing how badly they screwed up. But in a case like this... I think they probably saw (in hindsight) their mistakes pretty darn clearly within moments of it all happening.


Mark...

 

[Rkroelin]

I think part of the reasoning may have been an excuse to use the winch.

r.e. anchors away:
I had to come up with some excuse for the anchoring!

 

[crushers]

too bad common sense doesn't come natural to most people
and
some should never leave the pavement.

as Mark said, a clusterfawk of errors occured and luckily no one was hurt or killed.

anchoring, i have anchored maybe 3 times in 30 years of wheeling, i ALWAYS keep an eye on the winching vehicle, the cable, and the vehicle being winched for indication of something going sideways. i winch from both inside the vehicle or from outside depending on the situation.

i also use a proper tugg'm rope, seldom use one of those POS flat straps since they are one step above a chain and if a chain is all that is available then i won't participate period.

 

[Rkroelin]

They are actually two very sharp fellows that simply made a mistake in judgement.

 

[Mark W]

I think part of the reasoning may have been an excuse to use the winch.

I have seen this a lot. In the off road environment we have up here, most of the stucks are better served with a snatch strap and another rig. But guys that do not get out as much and have spent their bucks on cool winches always want to use them.

I can remember a few specific instances when "my guys" and I were out with folks that were not part of our normal circle... someone would get stuck and would immediately start setting up for a winch pull. One of us would back up and hook up a strap in the time it took them to pull the winch controller out of the glove box and take a brand new set of work gloves out of the packaging. And then find ourselves having to convince them to let us give them a tug.

One night a few years back we were out on a volunteer recovery run. A Bronco had become stuck and abandoned in a soft river crossing by a GI out on one last run before he deployed. He left the next morning and his buddies had been unable to get it and so had put the word out for help.
We ran in late in the day and it was dark when we got there. It was a mix of guys from 2-3 different clubs. Partially due to luck I am sure, but also due to a bit more experience and better rigs, all of my guys drove through the last crossing with nothing attention getting even... Four of the other rig got mired.... two at the same time. We strapped 2 of them out in a minute or two... the others insisted on winching and by the time they waded back and forth, winched out, repacked cable and gear... we had been working on getting the Bronco out of the river and ready to go for 10-15 minutes or so.


Mark...

 

[crushers]

since i have never met them i will take your word for it ...

simple errors can cost a life.

and

strapping a vehicle can have its own set of concerns... ever hear a hook go wissing over your head? i have and it is not a sound you EVER want to hear.
ever hear a strap break? talk about kenetic energy from hell. very dangerous.

wheeling is a serious sport and it can be extremely dangerous ... at least in my books it is.

 

[Mark W]

strapping a vehicle can have its own set of concerns... ever hear a hook go wissing over your head? i have and it is not a sound you EVER want to hear.
ever hear a strap break? talk about kenetic energy from hell. very dangerous.

wheeling is a serious sport and it can be extremely dangerous ... at least in my books it is.

Sure it is... Life itself is serious and can be dangerous. I have seen quite a few straps break and a variety of attachment points break. All sorts of other unexpected problems and hazards have popped up over the years too. It goes without saying that you have to be careful with snatch recoveries... and almost everything else we are doing out there.


Mark...

 

[peteinjp]

How did that silverado end up on the berm in the first place? Just curious-

Pete

 

[Rkroelin]

Pretty sure he drove onto it

 

[spressomon]

Most 4x4'rs IMO take this recovery stuff WAY WAY too casually. Especially considering how lethal even the most mundane of recovery events can be.

With the very limited real world skills most 4x4'rs have in this area, based upon what I have seen, you couldn't get a job even as a rigger's assistant's assistant; but somehow we all feel our knowledge on the subject is more than adequate.

The best thing folks can do is to get educated...thoroughly educated about all things recovery including proper use of all the involved gear. And just as important after youhave gone through the learning process: Practice what you've learned BEFORE you get into a real life predicament. Some folks can get it in a book while others need a 5-course real live training seminar event: Know which type of person you are and get the knowledge appropriately.

I always recommend starting here: Bill Burke

And this is a great resource too: Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

A great $15 investment too: http://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Handbook-Complete-Illustrated-Reference/dp/1888724080

And lastly: Recovery gear fatigues over time and needs to be frequently inspected and replaced.

Carry on.

 

[peteinjp]

Pretty sure he drove onto it

Since it looks like there may be a road right next to the truck it kinda looks like he bounced or slid onto it to me- hence the question. And only asking to make sure I don;t make the same mistake.

I've learned a bunch from this thread and it has prompted me to do some math for my own set-up. I read thru the Pirate page- a good read. Thanks!

Pete

 

[Jetboy]

I haven't seen much mentioned on this, but why get out of the vehicle? Was there a visibility issue? I don't recall ever winching from anywhere other than the driver's seat. Do the rest of you guys and gals get out to use the winch?

I assume that would have solved the issue here.

Also I've never had a winch on an automatic, and I wouldn't generally use it without the engine running, so that really doesn't leave much option other than staying in and braking. However, I do now have a winch for my 4runner (auto), and although it's really only for my snowplow, there might be a time I'll use it. So I guess I learned not to use the parking brake for winching. It's not something I would have thought of before.

 

[spressomon]

Unless extraordinary circumstances mitigate (eg: trying to recover a rolled vehicle), both drivers should be in the involved rigs. A chosen spotter(s) communicating to the drivers what they might not be able to see is also crucial for safety and overall recovery success.

 

[Mark W]

I haven't seen much mentioned on this, but why get out of the vehicle? Was there a visibility issue? I don't recall ever winching from anywhere other than the driver's seat. Do the rest of you guys and gals get out to use the winch?

I assume that would have solved the issue here.

Also I've never had a winch on an automatic, and I wouldn't generally use it without the engine running, so that really doesn't leave much option other than staying in and braking. However, I do now have a winch for my 4runner (auto), and although it's really only for my snowplow, there might be a time I'll use it. So I guess I learned not to use the parking brake for winching. It's not something I would have thought of before.

The OP mentions that the wincher got out because he could not see the winchee

I have often operated electric winches with no one in the winching rig... held in place by parking brakes and/or line locked service brakes. In and of itself there is nothing wrong with this. It all depends on the entire nature of the situation.

Never us an automatic in "park" as your only means to keep the winching rig in place. and if you are gonna use parking brakes, realize that they are usually not up to the level of performance to keep the tires from turning if you are in 4wd , or that the tail end will likely just skid under a heavy pull if you are in 2wd.


Mark...

 

[Rkroelin]

Yep, the jeep owner found out his parking brake wasn't exactly up to snuff for this kind of thing.

It looks like this thread has turned into a great source of information. Perfect.

 

[Dan2722]

Most 4x4'rs IMO take this recovery stuff WAY WAY too casually. Especially considering how lethal even the most mundane of recovery events can be.

With the very limited real world skills most 4x4'rs have in this area, based upon what I have seen, you couldn't get a job even as a rigger's assistant's assistant; but somehow we all feel our knowledge on the subject is more than adequate.

The best thing folks can do is to get educated...thoroughly educated about all things recovery including proper use of all the involved gear. And just as important after youhave gone through the learning process: Practice what you've learned BEFORE you get into a real life predicament. Some folks can get it in a book while others need a 5-course real live training seminar event: Know which type of person you are and get the knowledge appropriately.

I always recommend starting here: Bill Burke

And this is a great resource too: Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

A great $15 investment too: Amazon.com: Rigging Handbook: The Complete Illustrated Field Reference, Second Edition (9781888724080): Jerry Klinke: Books

And lastly: Recovery gear fatigues over time and needs to be frequently inspected and replaced.

Carry on.

Good info.

Ordered BB's video today.

 

[Mark W]

On one occasion I was attempting to winch my '40 out of a quicksand pit high up on an alpine ridge. Ithis was complicated by a broken birfield whioch resulted in no power to one of the front tires and that tire just dug deeper as we tried to power/winch forward.

No winch under the tail of that rig (got one waiting for install at the moment though ). and the only rig with me had no winch.


As we attemtped to winch out, I kept dragging the other rig toward me. No trees or rocks up there.

So we dig a couple of holes and dropped the front end of the other rig into the holes. Over the midline of the tires and up against a straight side. The frame was down on the ground and the axle was against the side of the hole too.

It made a fantastic "anchor".

Sadly the only thing it let us do was move my '40 further into the quicksand as the dead front tire just kept plowing in.

But it was an approach that I will keep in mind for any future "stucks" where it might be appropriate and useful.


Mark...

 

[daveIT]

It has also been suggested by someone that you have the hood open to catch the cable or hook if the cable snaps.

Great tip! You can drive home without a hood, but not without a head. Cable snaps are scary stuff!

 

[peteinjp]

On one occasion I was attempting to winch my '40 out of a quicksand pit high up on an alpine ridge. Ithis was complicated by a broken birfield whioch resulted in no power to one of the front tires and that tire just dug deeper as we tried to power/winch forward.

No winch under the tail of that rig (got one waiting for install at the moment though ). and the only rig with me had no winch.


As we attemtped to winch out, I kept dragging the other rig toward me. No trees or rocks up there.

So we dig a couple of holes and dropped the front end of the other rig into the holes. Over the midline of the tires and up against a straight side. The frame was down on the ground and the axle was against the side of the hole too.

It made a fantastic "anchor".

Sadly the only thing it let us do was move my '40 further into the quicksand as the dead front tire just kept plowing in.

But it was an approach that I will keep in mind for any future "stucks" where it might be appropriate and useful.


Mark...

So how did you get it out- or is it still there....

Pete