A bunch of 2FE questions- finally, an engine build thread

[TobyB]

Update- wiring harness is combed out- jeepers, that's NOT a task for the fainthearted! I know some of
you can do it in an evening, but by the time I'd figured everything out, I figure it took me 5 or 6 evenings!
I'll try to make a comprehensive list of what's what to complement Pappy's lists. I found a few more
than he did!

Engine's at the machine shop, and all the parts have passed mag and measurement testing.
Turns out I have the earlier block with 1- piece thrust shell, which seems like a good thing to me.
Head's been cut, but the shop says it shouldn't be a problem as it's now flat, and they don't need to
take much off the block to clean it up.

More as it gets put together.

t

 

[TobyB]

So in trying to align the harnesses today, it seems like the body and engine don't mate up with each other
very well for the 60. There's just too much heat/AC ducting in there!

So the plan now is to move the engine harness connector and ECU connector about 16" 'out'
to let me tuck the ECU against the pillar. Otherwise, yeah, it ends up in the glove box?

Also discovered that there's a connector for 2, yes TWO oxygen sensors. Why that's a revelation
to me, I have no idea. Things like this make me really want to test this system before I tear into
the truck!

t

 

[TobyB]

Engine parts came home yesterday. Pretty. Camera still awol, so pics are tba. Tla ftw. lol.

Anyway, I'm starting to get nervous about compression already. The head's now 1mm shorter
than stock, and they had to deck to block to clean it up, too. They took off as little as they could-
there are rust shadows where it doesn't matter- but adding up all the little 'gains', I'm afraid, are going
to put it in the alcohol- only range! I have another head, but it's got 300k on it... so it won't be cheap
to clean up.

If I wasn't at work all hours, I'd be able to get some real numbers!

Also, time to get chasing small parts, like head dowels, front gear screws, etc etc etc.

More soon with pix... I hope!

t

 

[pappy]

See if you can find a thicker head gasket.

 

[RockDoc]

I would guess that 1mm off the head would reduce the chamber volume by 5cc or so. Do you know how much was taken off the block? Keep in mind that with a longer duration cam, a higher static compression ratio can be used with a given grade of gas.

Edit: looking back at my numbers, 5cc does seem pretty significant... A thicker head gasket as Pappy suggests, or maybe opening up the chambers a bit may be in order.

 

[TobyB]

Hmm, yeah, I have found one listing for a 1.7mm gasket. Probably worth blowing the $60 to see
how it looks when it shows up. There is a block height number noted of 11.something,
(it's on the paperwork that's at home) and next to it they wrote "-.008"- but again, I need to get butt into
garage and get the crank in to get a deck height for the pistons.

Trying to take 5cc of iron out of each pocket seems daunting. I'm planning on reusing the stock intakes
as the margin's ok, and they sit a lot lower than the replacements the shop sent. Guess the revised plan
is to prefit, measure, and if the numbers don't work, send in the spare head. On the up side, it'd be mostly
time, and this shop is very fairly priced for the work that they do.

Thanks,

t

 

[TobyB]

Some updates, and maybe some visual evidence. The head cc's at 78 in the center down to 75 in #1 and #6- and some measuring of its top shows that it was warped at one time. It was straight on the bottom
whe I sent it off- it must have been warped and then surfaced before.
By my numbers, assuming a zero deck height at 94.5 mm(work has been busy- the block sits untouched) a 75cc
chamber gives me 9.4:1- too high for comfort. 80cc is just a touch under 9:1. So I'm going to try to
balance them all at 78+, and see how it goes. I have no idea where I'm going to get 3cc out of the
end pots- I'm already using the stock valves, and their margins are on the thin end of the range.
I've got the spare (uncut and unwarped but very worn) head sitting in degreaser now- if I'm not happy
with how this head works out, I'll bite the bullet and have the spare reworked.
Again, more as it develops.

What came in the Melling boxes- Summit listed them as a 3- week backorder, but they came in 2 days!

Not very high tech, but it seems to be both accurate and repeatable.

What FelPro is sending as a single 3FE gasket these days. It looks good- much better than what's in the
set that the shop sent. I'm going to try it, and we'll see... the kit DID have the 1- piece cork pan gasket,
so that was something....

I have a theory here- this is a stamped piece, and the dies leave a pretty significant lip on all the
holes, both small and large. This messes up the seal that the gasket is supposed to make, as the
stamping lip is very uneven, and will reduce clamping pressure on the flat sealing surfaces.
It's not a big job to deburr this plate and then make sure it's straight-
in my mind, that should help sealing. We shall see.

More as it percolates to the top,
t

 

[TobyB]

And here are the 62 wiring diagrams with the non- critical bits trimmed out:
Just a hack cut- and- cut graphics job, but as near as I can tell,
it's pretty accurate. This assumes you'll use the FJ62 ignition switch,
and then splice the 60 switch tail to this harness to power the 60 harness.
This leaves your 60 harness unmolested, and if you wanted to go megasquirt or
something later, it's not pre- hacked.

http://home.comcast.net/~racery/fj60/FJ62 2FE-wd1.GIF

http://home.comcast.net/~racery/fj60/FJ62 2FE-wd2.GIF

http://home.comcast.net/~racery/fj60/FJ62 2FE-wd3.GIF

http://home.comcast.net/~racery/fj60/FJ62 2FE-wd4.GIF

http://home.comcast.net/~racery/fj60/FJ62 2FE-wd5.GIF

I'm going to add some more circuits before I install it (trailer power and brakes,
compressor power, speaker wiring, gauge wiring, etc) but this is the straightforward version.

hth

t

{

 

[cruiserbrandon]

Im going to be approaching this exact job in the next couple of months, the biggest question I have is how much lift and duration can you get away with before the pcm is gonna freak? Or is that I call I need to make to Delta?

I want to build a healthy 2fe and I drive very little so fuel mileage is not as important as some healthy power to pull some hills and possibly a trailer when I need to. Sorry for the hijack but this seemed to be the best place to ask.

 

[TobyB]

From trolling threads, it looks like the stock ECU is more tolerant than most.

Take a look at the cam threads- the more aggressive Delta seems to work. The flapper
door is pretty tolerant of a lumpy idle. I'm using the KC, which is milder...


t

 

[cruiserbrandon]

Thanks, I will do some research. Good luck on the build and I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see what I might run into

 

[TobyB]

Did a bunch more cc'ing tonight- the head gasket (1.5mm) came in at 12, which was a bit more than
I'd hoped it would. I'm still getting 9.25:1 or so with a 75 cc chamber- and that's what I've got when I
try to use new valves. The old valves are clean, but they are at the limit for margin.
So I think I'll bite the bullet and get the other head cleaned up. It seems like the guides are ok,
and if the shop agrees, they're pretty reasonable for just a grind. I'm going to try to talk them
out of surfacing it, and see where that leaves the c:r... never hurts to have a spare, either.

The deck height on the block's something like .2mm negative- but the step is .3mm positive, so I'm
calling it a wash, and figuring it's close enough to zero to not matter.
I painted it "V8 blue" simply because I liked the color. It's not Big Gay, but it's not black, either.

I'm used to BMW tolerances- the shop cut things to the looser end of fit, and it scared me.
Pistons are at .003, mains at .002, rods at .003. I'm not used to that much rattle! But the
FSM says that's at the open end of new, so, meh, I'll run it. When I get myself a crank grinder,
then maybe I can get fussier.

Aisin oil pump showed up- looks like I'd hoped. The Aisin water pump has the cast in logos ground off
and Aisin stickers stuck onto it. Wierd. But it looks almost identical to the 1981 pump that I chiseled
off the donor block...

Wish I had more time to get going on this....

t

 

[TobyB]

Took the spare head to the machinist. He looked at me funny, shrugged, said 'OK!'

I have to admit, I looked at me funny, too.

t

oh, and some gratuitous junkyard transmission gloating-
NEVER expected to find one of these in the Pull-a-Part.
Ironically, the t- case cost me more than the gearbox.

 

[TobyB]

Back at it after a few weeks of paying for parts...

The second head cleaned up a lot better than the first- so with the new, flattop valves I'm getting 77cc on all 6- works out right about 9:1. If it has a tendency to ping, I've got plenty of Toyota valves to get it back
up to darn near 80cc- or 8.8:1. But I'm hopeful it won't- I deburred the chamber edges, etc, to try to keep
it quiet.

The numbers are misleading- that's with a Toyota intake and a flat exhaust, and there
was quite a bit of variation on the intakes, as they'd come from 2 different heads,
so they cleaned up differently.

See if you can spot the 3FE parts I shouldn't have used with the 2F valve cover!
(and nope, nothing hits the underside of it- I was surprised...)

Another few hours to button up the oil pan, and then it's on to testing the wiring
harness, getting a few random things ordered (engine mounts!) and figuring
out where the heck I'm actually going to swap engines.

I really hope this thing works....

t

edit- oh, >>biff<< I completely forgot the oil- heat- exchanger and big cast bracket.
Back to the disgusting cleaning stage- again.

 

[TobyB]

Oh, the best laid plans... and project creep. I made the mistake of thinking about how the water flows through the oil cooler and the heaters. The 60 pumps cool water into it from the pump, and returns it above the t- stat. The 62 also feeds cold water to it- but then, returns it into the heater return line. Somehow. It must work on the 62, I guess.
But on the 60, it'll return to the cool side in summer, and possibly backflow into the heater circuit in winter. So I added a return line like the 60 has, and it'll connect to the 62 heater return hose. I'll keep the 60 heater return, and I'm working on an adaptor to ctoss the thermo bypass tube back to the 60 nipple on the water pump. The camera was awol again, so pix will get added later.

Also, I grabbed a Volvo P/S pump a while back, and in trying to sort out accessory mounts, I realized-
mount the PS pump down low on the hot side on an adjuster, leave the alternator in the 60 location, and
get both sheaves of that water pump pulley working! What a concept- a redundant water pump drive!
(the reason this whole project started was that the air pump locked up on the previous owner...)
So 'just a couple of hours' to fab up a bracket... right?

Yeah, I guess I'll be ready to put this thing in in another, what, year at this rate!
Gotta find some motivation somewhere...

t