91 Octane Requirement (1 Viewer)

[ikarus]

It will produce the highest hp/tq numbers and best efficiency on 91 octane, the knock sensor will tell the ECM to retard timing to a safe level on lower octane fuels and the vast majority of these engines will run their entire lives on 87. 1GR-FE and 2GR-FE have been like this for 15+ years, probably other Toyota engines as well.

Agreed in general, but these guys are saying the Tacoma on 87 and the Land Cruiser on 91 supposedly make the same HP/TQ.

Just went down a little internet T24A-FTS rabbit hole and there are plenty of arguments with no conclusions. Looks like the Highlander requires 87 and the various Lexus models with this engine require 91. But in that case it makes a little more sense, the Lexus models make about +10 hp/tq over the Highlander

Maybe it's a recommended vs required kind of thing and like you said the ECU will tune/detune accordingly

 

[elbarto]

That is a pickle and we asked about it before but it seems that our 'insiders' are busy with other things.

I always thought that turbos required it but I'm out of my element in regards to the technical aspects.

Turbo engines tend to "prefer" it, the higher octane fuel means it is less likely to have knock/pre-detonation, which is more likely on a turbo engine due to the increased intake air pressure and heat. So many turbo engines require the high octane fuel to prevent this, and prevent having to retard timing/pull boost due to knock.
Turbos used to be (mostly) relegated to performance-y engines so spec'ing 91+ was OK and the norm. Now a lot of non-performance turbo engines on the market these days that are designed to run on 87.

 

[jayp2]

Toyota is trying to squeeze blood from the proverbial stone in order with the 2.4 turbo and other motors in order to increase the "fleet" efficiency

91 octane on a truck of any sort is BS imho and its all due to pressure from regulatory agencies

the Nissan Frontier is a 3.8 non turbo, seems to be reliable and sadly is now a consideration for me if I dont replace a G5 4R with a 2024

Its going to be 4-5 years before we have any sense of reliability in toyota's 2.4 turbo and I've sworn off buying first couple model years when there are major drive train changes

If I were set on buying a new LC/250 format and had the $$$, I'd be looking at the tried and true engine/model they offer in the lexus

 

[Phillyd2]

Turbo engines tend to "prefer" it, the higher octane fuel means it is less likely to have knock/pre-detonation, which is more likely on a turbo engine due to the increased intake air pressure and heat. So many turbo engines require the high octane fuel to prevent this, and prevent having to retard timing/pull boost due to knock.
Turbos used to be (mostly) relegated to performance-y engines so spec'ing 91+ was OK and the norm. Now a lot of non-performance turbo engines on the market these days that are designed to run on 87.

It's been my understanding that it's more a requirement instead of just a preference. One tank every now and then of lower octane is fine but on a regular basis it's going cause issues.

I know the GX six requires it but would guess the smaller four is going to need to work even harder and maybe get hotter.

Again, I'm ready and fine with being corrected.

 

[tacoshawn]

I expect Toyota to have done a good job on the development 2.4T + Hybrid.

I will also share our RX500h (Direct 4 architecture with 2.4T) went back to lexus under lemon law (unresolved CELs, very low VIN) and we replaced it with an RX350h (2.5L high efficiency A25A-FXS). The A25A motor has been in service since 2017 and has been flawless in our RX.

Having said that I do like that the V35a-FTS has been in service since 2017 in the LS500 and, aside from US sourced Turbo Wastegate problems on the Tundra, seems to be solid.

 

[M1911]

While rust on any vehicle is not nice and I wish Toyota Japan did a better job coating them, i have never seen a 200 seriously rusted whereby it becomes a frame integrity issue.

My mechanic has looked at it and worked on it. You have not. Believe what you want to believe.

 

[Zill]

I expect Toyota to have done a good job on the development 2.4T + Hybrid.

I will also share our RX500h (Direct 4 architecture with 2.4T) went back to lexus under lemon law (unresolved CELs, very low VIN) and we replaced it with an RX350h (2.5L high efficiency A25A-FXS). The A25A motor has been in service since 2017 and has been flawless in our RX.

Having said that I do like that the V35a-FTS has been in service since 2017 in the LS500 and, aside from US sourced Turbo Wastegate problems on the Tundra, seems to be solid.

The wastegate is not the problem in the v35a, it’s the spun rod bearings that seize your motor up which has both been experienced in the new Tundra and LC300. It’s a design flaw which I don’t believe Toyota has fixed yet.

 

[2021 LC200]

Sure, just google "200 Series Rust"

I wouldn't say these are frame integrity issues a la the Tundra/Sequoia/4Runner class action lawsuit and recall but these are also a lot newer. That second one might be developing holes in the LCA though...

2016 200 LC Rust Concern

Hi all. Negotiating on a low mileage 2016 200 LC that spent its life in the northeast. Underside shows rust (see pics) that seller is assuring is surface rust. Also claims the KDSS valve is rusted some, but nothing to hinder functioning (no picture yet). I’ve also spoken with the group that I...

forum.ih8mud.com

Rust repair advise on North East 200 series

Hello guys, I am considering a 2008 200 series in the northeast with 120k on it. It seems to have some rust on the underbody and I was wondering if it's worth the trouble to buy it and clean up the rust? I live in the northeast and plan on it being my daily to save putting miles on my 80 series...

forum.ih8mud.com

Here's a 100 Series I saw online:

View attachment 3591163

For 200s it's not as big of an issue right now as it is with 4Runners, Tundras, or 100s but give it a few years and I'm sure more will pop up. As with any vehicle, if you live in the rust belt or anywhere with road salt, you have to really care for your Toyota frame if you want it to last. In my opinion rust is the only big Land Cruiser killer. I had a 100 that I loved that had a bunch of rust on the frame and in the rear wheel well. It was too bad, but I learned my lesson to never buy a rusty car and to care for the frame every winter.

While the rust is not nice at all on those 200’s, there is no frame integrity issue going on. I understand in the North all folk with body on frame have this issue and various oil or wax film techniques are available to maintain the same.

The 250 has a steel frame as well so expect the same without TLC.

 

[Rednexus]

Toyota has never really fixed the rust issue as far as I know. As posted above, the only way to get around it is to give you rig regular undercoating treatments, which are inexpensive and easy to DIY. While rust issues are not unique to Toyota, I do find it glaring that they've obviously known about them for 20+ years and have never truly bothered to fix the problem.

FWIW, a colleague of mine who lives in MA recently had his '07 Tundra basically totaled due to frame rust. He took it into have some exhaust work done and was shown sizeable holes/areas of section loss in the frame.

 

[2021 LC200]

My mechanic has looked at it and worked on it. You have not. Believe what you want to believe.

I understand your mechanic would not be a happy camper working on parts attached to the rusty frame. He would be worried braking a bold and making his life harder. Does not mean the 200 you have is not fine and that the 250 will be any better.

 

[Rednexus]

I understand your mechanic would not be a happy camper working on parts attached to the rusty frame. He would be worried braking a bold and making his life harder. Does not mean the 200 you have is not fine and that the 250 will be any better.

You'd be surprised at just how bad rigs can get up in the NE. The frame coating goes at the welds first; some frames can also rust from the inside out. The frame steel is only around 1/8" thick. The weld rust can start within a year or two of purchase and things get worse from there. I'm glad I was able to save mine with the Woolwax/Fluid Film treatment. We use probably 1/4 of the salt down here in the lower midwest, but it will still start to eat up a frame.

200 or 250 or 80 or Tundra, every one of them needs to be undercoated unless you're in a dry climate.

 

[knuckle47]

The main reason I sold my 1974 FJ40 which I bought new in ‘74 was the northern Vermont winters….the salt in 5-6 years ate the body. It looked like it was 20 years old full of holes around the spot welds on the rear and sides

 

[Jeremy556]

The main reason I sold my 1974 FJ40 which I bought new in ‘74 was the northern Vermont winters….the salt in 5-6 years ate the body. It looked like it was 20 years old full of holes around the spot welds on the rear and sides

I know of a couple mid seventies FJ40s that are still in active use as snow plow trucks in mountain towns. They never make it out on the Interstate, so no salt to rot them.

 

[TheLCProject]

I hear the 200 frame is so thick that even significant surface rust/scale would not affect it. May want to ask the 200 owners experience.

This statement is preposterous.

As more and more 200s get older you're going to see the overall undercarriage condition deteriorate.

 

[2021 LC200]

This statement is preposterous.

As more and more 200s get older you're going to see the overall undercarriage condition deteriorate.

Thanks dude

Can you show me a story of a LC200, perhaps a 2008 which is 16 years now, which required it’s frame to be repaired?

 

[TheLCProject]

Thanks dude

Can you show me a story of a LC200, perhaps a 2008 which is 16 years now, which required it’s frame to be repaired?

Is the 200 as bad as the bad batch Tacomas and Tundras? Of course not.

But steel still rusts and Akiyo didn't piss his miracle anti-rust juice into every heat of steel used on 2008+ land cruisers.

Is the 200 Series Frame Prone to Rust?

Searched a bit through Google...didn't see much so forgive me if there's a bunch of threads already. Been poking around and considering the 200 series when I sell my 80. I can't help but notice it looks like most undercarriage images I see have what appears to be rust on the welds and various...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[2021 LC200]

Is the 200 as bad as the bad batch Tacomas and Tundras? Of course not.

Thanks. I understand the factory uses electrostatic coating of the frames in a paint bath and while these frames will not last forever, as none of them do, there should be no real concern for Japan made vehicles. I also assume it is not a real issue anymore for those build overseas either (US, MEX etc.). Now if ownership is wanted >25 years I would use fluid film or similar in those areas using salt in the winter.

 

[ikarus]

- edit - I'm not gonna clog up this thread with talk about rust. With all due respect if you think that serious rust issues don't matter until the frame has holes in it, I think we're on two different wavelengths and there's not much else to be said. I can't stand rust. I would fluid film a car even if I was only going to keep it for one year. I'll fly to Arizona, California or Texas to buy cars just because it's so nice to not have rust on the frame. Everything about rust sucks, it ruins the experience of working on and modifying cars and it is THE Toyota achille's heel.

in the wise words of Beno:

08 Land Cruiser Rust Treatment

+1 on the sticky post recommendation. Personally I wasn't searching for a pristine example - price was much more of a concern than a couple years of salty use for me. I might have felt differently if I was looking at a 15 year old 100-series though. What's the recommended rust protection for...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[yodaslim]

Does anyone in the northeast buy a nice car?

 

[gearguywb]

Does anyone in the northeast buy a nice car?

They can't buy a nice used one...there aren't any