'87 FJ60 Engine Swap

[jakerudy]

20mpg would be dreamy emissions not an issue. Is it worth it at $20k?? Are you happy about getting it done,?

Is is worth $20k is the question that always come up. Classic Cruisers put a 6BT Cummins in my '85 FJ60 and it was worth it to me - no regrets. Justifying it depends on what you want. I was tired of the 2F emissions and lack of power. It may never pay off in fuel cost but it has been rock solid reliable with all kinds of power and 20 mpg. What other SUV can you buy for $20k that you would trust to take just about anywhere?

I've heard nothing but good about the LS swaps but if you want simple, reliable, and efficient the 6BT is hard to beat.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

6bt fj60 or fj62 nv4500 np205 custom rear axle with the fj80 frame swap.....wake up Tommy your dreaming

 

[White Stripe]

I will disagree on the mechanical nightmare. Mechanically it as much as a nightmare as any modern fuel injected engine. I would change that to electrical nightmare. Every British owned vehicle I have ever had (I have had a lot) were horrible in the electronics. Mechanically they were fine. We had a joke about them, you could almost tell what day of the week they were built. Wednesday's being the best, Friday the worst.

I agree the LS motors are cheap to maintain, I have had a few of these over the years. That is not where I am coming from here. Sensors go, while cheap, they can leave you completely stranded in the middle of nowhere. Add in computer controlled transmissions and transfer cases and it get worse.
If I were to swap to a LS motor, I would get a new harness that omitted all that junk and keep it a manual trans. You get get the ECU reprogrammed for a fully manual trans. I will not be giving up the LQ4 sitting in my Yukon once pulled, it will find a new home somewhere.

Still I like the simple 2F. Closest I have had to this in all of the cars I have owned in a 6cyl was a carburated Ford 300ci. Great motor and as simple as they come, you could really not break the damn thing and believe me I tried. In the back bush, you cannot really go wrong, duct tape and bailing wire will keep you going 9 times out of 10.

The end of it is this. Freeway, ya do the swap without a doubt, you can pass safely and get out of the way faster of speeding cars. Plus you have the power for those huge hills.

Back country, I am more nervous of sensors that can break and prevent the engine from running than the speed my rig can go.

Personally I am originally from a province in Canada that is reducing the speed on some of their roadways, A good thing. Every ad you read is speed kills, yet we have Highways in the US with 75 MPH as posted limit, and it keeps going up.

I have a mighty 2f in my 40. Everything has been done to it. Its reliable for the most part. I did have a ignition system electrical issue this past summer that threw me for a loop for a while. Intermittently it just would not fire up. One of the pins in one of the electrical connectors was loose. It left me stranded but fortunately I drive my 40 a lot in town so that those issues rise when Im in civilization. I like the character of the 2f, and Im ok going slow at times and is a semi daily driver. The LS cruiser is going to be my daily driver. My goal is to take the LS cruiser on a extended trip to south america. If it breaks down Ill send you a message on the forum to come get me and you can gloat the whole way back about the reliability of the 2f haha.

 

[PCC]

A good thing. Every ad you read is speed kills, yet we have Highways in the US with 75 MPH as posted limit, and it keeps going up.

Fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled have dropped almost every year since the repeal of the speed limit law in 1995. In 1994 and 1995, there were 1.73 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled.

In 2014, the most recent year measured, the number stood at 1.09 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled. That's a 37 percent decrease in nearly two decades.

 

[Willard]

Is is worth $20k is the question that always come up. Classic Cruisers put a 6BT Cummins in my '85 FJ60 and it was worth it to me - no regrets. Justifying it depends on what you want. I was tired of the 2F emissions and lack of power. It may never pay off in fuel cost but it has been rock solid reliable with all kinds of power and 20 mpg. What other SUV can you buy for $20k that you would trust to take just about anywhere?

I've heard nothing but good about the LS swaps but if you want simple, reliable, and efficient the 6BT is hard to beat.

$20K is a large chunk of cash you will never see back. I have this invested easily in my 60 now and that is not including what the PO did right before I bought it from him.

The question that was posted to me when I presented this number, is why did you buy it in the first place? Will the be a second or only vehicle, like the last one for a while? I had to think about that question and for me it was bought out of nostalgia and something I can hand down to one of my kids. So at that point, if I were to drop 10-20K on an engine swap that will make this vehicle more suited to the road speeds in the next 6-7 years, it is a small price to pay for something that I know will be in the family for years to come.

Fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled have dropped almost every year since the repeal of the speed limit law in 1995. In 1994 and 1995, there were 1.73 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled.

In 2014, the most recent year measured, the number stood at 1.09 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled. That's a 37 percent decrease in nearly two decades.

Yes but they would have to break that down a hell of a lot. How many of those have modern safety standards, vs well almost nothing.

I have a mighty 2f in my 40. Everything has been done to it. Its reliable for the most part. I did have a ignition system electrical issue this past summer that threw me for a loop for a while. Intermittently it just would not fire up. One of the pins in one of the electrical connectors was loose. It left me stranded but fortunately I drive my 40 a lot in town so that those issues rise when Im in civilization. I like the character of the 2f, and Im ok going slow at times and is a semi daily driver. The LS cruiser is going to be my daily driver. My goal is to take the LS cruiser on a extended trip to south america. If it breaks down Ill send you a message on the forum to come get me and you can gloat the whole way back about the reliability of the 2f haha.

Damn right and I will!!!

 

[NookShneer]

Check out @ddelong6767 and his shop Well Sorted Automotive in Buena Vista. He had a great 5.3 swapped FJ60 at SAS.

 

[Seth S]

I installed the Katz heater.....never worked. Had it reinstalled...didn't work either. Is the Webasto better?

I'm not familiar with "Katz"...Webasto gets installed as an OEM heater on a lot of vehicles. My merc sprinter van has one....that I've never used but I've seen friends vans that use the heater and its great. I think Webasto has a pretty good reputation. I'd recommend going to the junkyard and grabbing a webasto unit out of an old sprinter van...but it would run on diesel and i don't know if it can be converted to gas.

 

[Willard]

I'm not familiar with "Katz"...Webasto gets installed as an OEM heater on a lot of vehicles. My merc sprinter van has one....that I've never used but I've seen friends vans that use the heater and its great. I think Webasto has a pretty good reputation. I'd recommend going to the junkyard and grabbing a webasto unit out of an old sprinter van...but it would run on diesel and i don't know if it can be converted to gas.

Older VW bugs had them as well. They will melt you inside your vehicle.

 

[Seth S]

For some reason I've really been attracted to the Ford 3.5 V6 Ecoboost engine a possible future swap. Its like $8200 or so as a crate engine and makes decent power and torque numbers. I've never driven it and I think the interest just stems from the idea of having a more compact engine good power that doesnt weigh a ton. However when you think $8000 for a crate motor then it becomes why not go with the 2.8 diesel and get the better mileage too (not sure how the ecoboost would do efficiency wise in a 60). I've looked at the 1HD's and 1HZ's and they don't seem a whole lot less cost other than they are probably a more direct drop in without the need for expensive adapters etc.

 

[Seth S]

Older VW bugs had them as well. They will melt you inside your vehicle.

older like:

or older like this:

 

[Willard]

First one, but looking at the new Webasto heaters, the old VW ones are much larger. the newer ones are very compact in comparison.

 

[Seth S]

A friend with a mid 2000's sprinter van had both the heater and a timer. He would set the heater to turn on at 5am on the day he would be driving the van. It would both circulate and heat the engine coolant and heat the heater coolant as well. so when he went to leave everything was nice and warm. It was a really good setup. The unit in my van is just a heater booster....so when you start the van cold and turn the booster on it helps to heat the coolant faster and shorten the warm up time.

 

[Willard]

A friend with a mid 2000's sprinter van had both the heater and a timer. He would set the heater to turn on at 5am on the day he would be driving the van. It would both circulate and heat the engine coolant and heat the heater coolant as well. so when he went to leave everything was nice and warm. It was a really good setup. The unit in my van is just a heater booster....so when you start the van cold and turn the booster on it helps to heat the coolant faster and shorten the warm up time.

Nice,
I have the old fashioned plug block heater in mine. So some options for the OP.

 

[Well Sorted]

Check out @ddelong6767 and his shop Well Sorted Automotive in Buena Vista. He had a great 5.3 swapped FJ60 at SAS.

Thanks for the shout-out Dave. @WSOPgold2012 if you want to take an LS truck for a test drive come on out to Buena Vista, happy to let you wheel my rig on the nearby roads, over the high passes, and on some trails if you're feeling adventurous. I love the LS, but will also say I'm exploring other options, want to be able to offer my customers a full range of choices.

 

[Well Sorted]

For some reason I've really been attracted to the Ford 3.5 V6 Ecoboost engine a possible future swap. Its like $8200 or so as a crate engine and makes decent power and torque numbers. I've never driven it and I think the interest just stems from the idea of having a more compact engine good power that doesnt weigh a ton. However when you think $8000 for a crate motor then it becomes why not go with the 2.8 diesel and get the better mileage too (not sure how the ecoboost would do efficiency wise in a 60). I've looked at the 1HD's and 1HZ's and they don't seem a whole lot less cost other than they are probably a more direct drop in without the need for expensive adapters etc.

You aren't the only one interested in the 3.5L, but I may be biased (I worked at Ford in the early 2000's and helped develop the engine, then worked at BorgWarner on turbochargers). It's a great little package, hard to beat for performance, weight, and power density. It feels sort of blasphemous to put it in a Cruiser but I guess no more than an LS swap. I live at 8000' altitude so while I love my LS truck, the draw of forced induction is strong. I haven't dug into it yet, but it's on my list. Probably in a second gen Bronco first though. I'm building a customer an FJ40 with an R2.8 now, really looking forward to getting that on the road for evaluation and comparison to the other options.

 

[jakerudy]

$20K is a large chunk of cash you will never see back. I have this invested easily in my 60 now and that is not including what the PO did right before I bought it from him.

The question that was posted to me when I presented this number, is why did you buy it in the first place? Will the be a second or only vehicle, like the last one for a while? I had to think about that question and for me it was bought out of nostalgia and something I can hand down to one of my kids. So at that point, if I were to drop 10-20K on an engine swap that will make this vehicle more suited to the road speeds in the next 6-7 years, it is a small price to pay for something that I know will be in the family for years to come.

I've owned my FJ60 for 20 years. It was a reliable daily driver with the 2F for a long time but the CA emissions system kept causing problems. $20k is a lot and I won't get it back but have no intent to sell it and didn't do the swap as an investment.

How much do you lose driving a brand new truck or SUV off the lot? Then add in the insurance and taxes.

 

[FJACS]

The VW Eberspacher heaters are gasoline fueled and really warm an interior up quickly. I had one in my Karmann Ghia.

You need to tap into the fuel line, and run an exhaust for it, but otherwise they are very simple.

There are a few vendors that sell restored units complete with all of the controls.

 

[Willard]

How much do you lose driving a brand new truck or SUV off the lot? Then add in the insurance and taxes.

The only one I ever bought new I lost exactly $200 when I sold it 3 months later but that was a car and one that was well sought after (the new Charger when they first came out).
Aside from that I have only bought used vehicles. So no idea.

 

[Willard]

The VW Eberspacher heaters are gasoline fueled and really warm an interior up quickly. I had one in my Karmann Ghia.

You need to tap into the fuel line, and run an exhaust for it, but otherwise they are very simple.

There are a few vendors that sell restored units complete with all of the controls.

Yes this is exactly the unit I was talking about. The one that was in my 72 bug was a Webasto unit. Just a great little heater that really warmed up fast.

 

[WSOPgold2012]

Nope. But I thought you were here in Denver. It DOES occasionally hit -10 here though. Process is the same. Gives me time to finish my coffee before driving...

Honestly...it's not really about getting into a warm rig.....I'm still walking around in a tee-shirt It's more about the advantages of warm engine starting > cold engine starting. Even the last CPL days it takes a silly amount of time catch/start ....it.just can't be good for the motor.