Builds ?????????80 tm Build Input Requested

[Delancy]

It's all governed by the compression length.

That's the basis the extended numbers were calculated from, but due to the lengths and the vast difference between any other known US "lift", cause for concern from shock producer.

The extended lengths posted are based on compressed.

Here's what I "know".

The coils won't fall out with either the front or rear fully drooped, no sway bars attached. For that matter, a strategically placed bottle jack is necessary to allow removal.
Links limit.

To determine the rear compressed, stuffed the DS rear tire (since panhard pulls PS) until it touched the inside vertical face of the wheel well, then backed off a 1/4". This left ~1/2" between the outer lugs of the tire and the outer fender well.

Center of eye to lower mounting surface-20"

The rear is very similar to the FJC, which functions well with 4" up, so measurements seemed consistent to expectations. Stuffed with coils, shocks on (the L's still had ample up travel. They're not ideal for these coils, considering they severely limit droop.)

Front was stuffed PS. Only achieved ~3", but calculated for 4" up, from RH. Can cut the front of inner well, if need be.

Where'd I err?

 

[sleeoffroad]

To determine the rear compressed, stuffed the DS rear tire (since panhard pulls PS) until it touched the inside vertical face of the wheel well, then backed off a 1/4". This left ~1/2" between the outer lugs of the tire and the outer fender well.

Your compressed numbers are high compared to available space for compression until bumpstop. Even our shocks for the 6" will fit into those compressed numbers. However they won't yield the extended as you want, unless the top shock mounts are lowered.

 

[Delancy]

However they won't yield the extended as you want, unless the top shock mounts are lowered.

Christo,
The extended numbers represent the possible length based on the provided compressed numbers.

Pretty much, I provided Glenn the compressed and he replied "something's amiss" based on others he's familiar with. In turn, I asked the net extended length possible based on compressed, and the dimension previously posted are the result.

The original estimated travel dimensions that were given by Superior (I didn't order coils from Superior, but initially spoke with them about)) , using the magical coils and arms, were in line with a 7" TJM lift, according to Glenn. Reason I didn't order based on, besides lack of cycling, was the larger tires more common to US 80s, mine included.

Was concerned that there'd be "unusable" travel since I'm not running 35s.

Sounds like I need to redo.

 

[TheBigBoy]

This is how I do mine. Cycle is the only way. Any trimming will need to be done now, as shocks are the last thing to go on.

Write down a whole list of available shock ex/comp numbers. Remove all sway bars and current shocks. Max out the flex (in a ditch, not with jacks). Measure and calculate all bumpstop extensions. Fabricate and fit, then flex it up again. Your tuck/clearances is now controlled. Measuring the compression side of the shock, cross reference your shock numbers list for a suitable compression match (minus 1"). And note the extension length. Use a large tie down strap to bring the dropping tire back up to match the max extension shock number. Recheck everything and chose the correct shock - easy.

 

[Delancy]

chose the correct shock - easy.

These will be built to spec.

My original plan was to disconnect sways and shocks, lift entire vehicle, check for driveline bind at full droop, then measure. This would be extended dimension.

(Edited: due to the coil extension, they won't fall out at full droop. Can't say how much downforce is present, but they do remain in the coil bucket)

Then, pull coils and stuff the axle, parallel to the frame, and measure. This being compressed.

To check the overall usable within the confines of the links, stuff each wheel independently, allowing the other side to remain extended, measure both sides. Repeat at all 4 wheels.

Take the lesser of all dimensions, subtract a 1/4" for bumps-straps (if necessary) and order/valve according to the shock stroke.

Pretty much, same as your process, setting bumps at whatever time (more or less, don't disagree with this being the ideal time to limit and recheck).

The variable that I added was checking to see if a disconnected front sway bar, attached to the frame for off road, would substantially limit droop. If so, deal with the sway and not limit before it hits. I don't want to buy another driveshaft.

I've lost the ability to borrow lift time, though, and after a conversation with Glenn, that's the reason it was determined to calculate compressed only, with coils in, with forklift. Just don't think the numbers matched what he's familiar with (and according to all other data, they don't) and reason I'm now back to square one.

The articulated variances were important to me, because rubbing on the inside of the well should be restricted, in my opinion, and due to the type of usage intended. I'll never have the entire rear axle off the ground at once, so articulated dimensions made the most sense.

Quick run through confirms the rear dimension, though and highlights the obvious flaws in the initial forklift test.



At this point, there's a 1/4" between the inner tire and the inner wheel well, BUT the front tire is coming off the ground, due to the limited range of the shock. Center of eye to mounting surface is only 3/4" less than what resulted during the forklift test.


For the front, can't get near the same compression as with the forklift.









That's all she'll go before the rear tire lifts off the ground.

Obviously none of this has any bearing on anything but highlighting that compressed dimensions aren't all that's necessary. There's a balance to be found during stuffed, drooped, and articulated.......just not sure if that's more complex than the platform dictates.

 

[Delancy]

Another idea, considering I appreciate the front sway bar immensely, on road, but willing to be berated for sake of furthering development.

In the event the drive shaft is in danger when the sway is disconnected for off road, what about the possibility of a torsion bar being added to the top of the axle, with rear facing arms and links in similar locations to the OE?

They could easily be disconnected using locking hubs at the end of the sway bar housing, yet still keeping the moving components in a predictable path, eliminating encroachment in the drive shaft travel?

 

[TheBigBoy]

If you want wheel travel. You have to lose the sway bar (Offroad only). You don't want to rti ramp it like in your pic. Opposite corners at max tuck at the same time ie. all vehicles weight on 2 wheels.

 

[Delancy]

If you want wheel travel. You have to lose the sway bar (Offroad only). You don't want to rti ramp it like in your pic. Opposite corners at max tuck at the same time ie. all vehicles weight on 2 wheels.

When you say "lose the sway" you mean completely removed, because even if the front is disconnected, it'll still contact drive shaft?

And on the later, considering there's absolutely no danger of the L shocks being fully compressed, I'm assuming that the coils would need to remain (obviously) to get a ditch pic measurement?

 

[TheBigBoy]

Usually the front sway bar is removed entirely. And only the rear sway bar is run (some upgrade it to heavy duty). Then you just disconnect the rear when Offroad. The shocks will need to be removed for duty cycle as they restrict tuck/drop (1 or the other). The coils are designed to always remain captured and exert downward forces. Pain in the bum to fit, but brilliant.

 

[TheBigBoy]

And yes, coils always remain in.

 

[Delancy]

Usually the front sway bar is removed entirely.

I'm too attached to abandon the front, at this point. If I have to pull them both at the wheeling point, reattach when leaving, so be it.

Have lofty ambitions for both, but......

And yes, coils always remain in.

That requires two forklifts, or ditches I've not found here in Oklahoma, yet.

I'm wondering if somewhere the compressed coil lengths exist? Make it easier to lift the axle to that dimension. Don't think I could sell strapping the frame to the lift since no longer have access to buddy's.

 

[LT]

Get rid of the sway bars. Once you put some real shocks on like Radflo the truck will drive around just fine. We drove our 80 all those years with OME shocks and no sway bar, you get used to it.

 

[kbahus]

One thing I have noticed running with the front sway bar disconnected is that the suspension is more compliant but at the cost of feeling more tippy on off camber situations. I will likely run mine more next season due to the tippy factor, I don't want to scratch the roof.

Do you guys feel that high end shocks will take care of this some how? I don't see it, you are eliminating a lever out of the system. Shocks can only do so much, but I like to be enlightened.

 

[Delancy]

We drove our 80 all those years with OME shocks and no sway bar, you get used to it.

Onto a trailer?

Do you guys feel that high end shocks will take care of this some how?

I'm not sold yet, but remains to be seen.

Still think some anti sway characteristics are beneficial off road. A dual rate would be perfect, but not sure if its worth the effort and money.

Waiting till after shocks.

 

[TheBigBoy]

The tippy factor is just because you haven't found the trucks limits yet. Even with high end shock's, propper valving, AND changed geometry. I would still run a rear sway bar onroad. Offroad, it's of no benefit at all. Front is the first to go, back gets upgraded with disconnects. I'm finally getting back onto my "special" sway bars some time in Jan.

 

[LT]

Onto a trailer?

I'm not sold yet, but remains to be seen.

Still think some anti sway characteristics are beneficial off road. A dual rate would be perfect, but not sure if its worth the effort and money.

Waiting till after shocks.

We trailer our rigs because we actually wheel them and have a high chance of destruction. Its okay you keep your sway bars and pink panty ways

 

[TheBigBoy]

Ha ha, no pressure chris.., Meeooowww

 

[Delancy]

The tippy factor is just because you haven't found the trucks limits yet.

Tippy she is, but in fairness, the lower wheel pulls the corner down. Too many opposing forces and with height, it'll wad the pink panties.

The front sway usage is on road only. If I have to pull it off completely for off, I think I will, because it feels predictable, manageable with both on for on road.

If the shocks mitigate the body roll, then will reconsider, and that's the reason I've modified the OE, instead of some other form of anti-sway set up.

 

[Delancy]

We trailer our rigs because we actually wheel them and have a high chance of destruction. Its okay you keep your sway bars and pink panty ways

Glad to see you're feeling better.

 

[devildogcruiser25]

Not to get too far off subject, but did you ever see the aftermarket rear sway that 'ol whatshisface is running? (The guy with a Lexus on front coilovers) he said that it drastically improved handling and I don't think he is running a front sway. Made by white bros or something.

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Edit, don't know how to link from my phone.