80 series and a limited slip differential

[flintknapper]

a buddy of mine had the toyota LSD and it was not much better than an open diff...

They aren't very aggressive and don't last very long despite being of robust construction.

 

[scottryana]

There are different types of LSDs some use clutches and others use helical gears. There are now several helical gear limited slips for this application. While there used to only be clutch setups like the Auburn. You can now get an 8" Eaton Truetrac and a 9.5" Nitro Helix. The helical gears will mean no more wearing out clutches and having a weak limited slip.

 

[woodsman 44]

LSD = great. Every diff has pros and cons. You like your locker, fine. But that's not what I asked about in the thread. 2nd best 4wd I had was a bronco with LSD on both axles. It never got stuck. And the Ford LSD (which is 2nd rate quality) lasted 129k in the front and over 100K in the rear. Why? Because I took care of it. If yours didn't last perhaps it's a maintenance problem. Sometimes when you're rolling over certain terrains, one tire has a longer path than the other. LSD will allow the tires to each move at diff speeds and thus not spin under force. Lockers can't do that, ever. Everything is +/- and it's about accepting costs to get the benes you want. I want an LSD. Go find another thread to whine.

Easy there Francis, not trying to trigger you... I've had 46 years of experience in his area and set up many ring and pinion with LSD and lockers on jeeps, scout, toy ect.I know the pros and cons of each with the LSD being about obsolete these days....even most of the manufactures put in lockers from factory now because they know the history of the LSD

enjoy your LSD and report back on how it does....peace out bro

 

[woodsman 44]

There are different types of LSDs some use clutches and others use helical gears. There are now several helical gear limited slips for this application. While there used to only be clutch setups like the Auburn. You can now get an 8" Eaton Truetrac and a 9.5" Nitro Helix. The helical gears will mean no more wearing out clutches and having a weak limited slip.

I had the Detroit trruetrac in the front of my straight axle 85 truck...it worked very good and easier to turn..

 

[DivByZero]

How long did that LSD last for you, in miles?

That's really hard to say. The nature of a LSD means you don't necessarily know for sure when it's helping you, you just find out when it isn't. It also doesn't just "stop working". It starts with a certain amount of "bite", and that fades off over time until it becomes largely ineffective in helping you find traction.

I'd say the LSD on my 1993 Hilux was helping in some capacity for a good 15 years or so, but it was definitely fading after 10. On my 1996 Landcruiser, which I got in 2017, the LSD had barely any bite when I got it, and is effectively non-existant at this point.

I don't personally agree that a LSD is "obsolete", but they do seem to be out of fashion. From an engineering perspective, a LSD is great for driving at speed over loose surfaces. It shines in places like down here in Australia, when you're dealing with unsealed roads like gravel, dirt, or mud, especially when you've got washboarding. You wouldn't engage a locker and drive at 60km/h around corners. A locker isn't designed to do that, and it'll force wheel slippage as you turn, which isn't what you want. A LSD on the other hand will take that in its stride, and if you end up in the soft stuff on the edge of the road, or start bouncing over the washboards, it'll be there working away ensuring you've always got power going to both wheels on the axle. A LSD however is NOT ideal for technical 4x4 work, like rock crawling or advanced trails, or working in dry sand. Basically, if you're in low range, a locker is probably better. If you're in high range, a LSD is probably better.

As for why a LSD is less popular now, I think that's simply due to the rise of modern AWD vehicles with traction control. That uses electronics to effectively do what an LSD was doing mechanically. Unsealed road is also becoming less and less common, even here in Australia. In the end, this means that die-hard off-roaders will still tend to favour lockers, while more casual adventurers are increasingly able to do without a LSD due to less unsealed road and the advent of electronic traction control.


I'm going to put a locker in my 80. It'll give me more control. I also expect from time to time I'll find myself slipping, stopping, engaging lockers, and then moving again, when a functioning LSD would have seen me get up something first go without issue. That's the trade-off.

I had a lot of fun in my LN106 Hilux with a rear LSD, tearing along winding gravel roads at 130km/h. A lot of those more familiar roads turned to tarmac bit by bit over a decade ago now. If they were still around though, I wouldn't attempt the same today with an open rear diff, I'd have to take it down a notch.

 

[flintknapper]

That's really hard to say. The nature of a LSD means you don't necessarily know for sure when it's helping you, you just find out when it isn't. It also doesn't just "stop working". It starts with a certain amount of "bite", and that fades off over time until it becomes largely ineffective in helping you find traction.

I'd say the LSD on my 1993 Hilux was helping in some capacity for a good 15 years or so, but it was definitely fading after 10. On my 1996 Landcruiser, which I got in 2017, the LSD had barely any bite when I got it, and is effectively non-existant at this point.

I don't personally agree that a LSD is "obsolete", but they do seem to be out of fashion. From an engineering perspective, a LSD is great for driving at speed over loose surfaces. It shines in places like down here in Australia, when you're dealing with unsealed roads like gravel, dirt, or mud, especially when you've got washboarding. You wouldn't engage a locker and drive at 60km/h around corners. A locker isn't designed to do that, and it'll force wheel slippage as you turn, which isn't what you want. A LSD on the other hand will take that in its stride, and if you end up in the soft stuff on the edge of the road, or start bouncing over the washboards, it'll be there working away ensuring you've always got power going to both wheels on the axle. A LSD however is NOT ideal for technical 4x4 work, like rock crawling or advanced trails, or working in dry sand. Basically, if you're in low range, a locker is probably better. If you're in high range, a LSD is probably better.

As for why a LSD is less popular now, I think that's simply due to the rise of modern AWD vehicles with traction control. That uses electronics to effectively do what an LSD was doing mechanically. Unsealed road is also becoming less and less common, even here in Australia. In the end, this means that die-hard off-roaders will still tend to favour lockers, while more casual adventurers are increasingly able to do without a LSD due to less unsealed road and the advent of electronic traction control.


I'm going to put a locker in my 80. It'll give me more control. I also expect from time to time I'll find myself slipping, stopping, engaging lockers, and then moving again, when a functioning LSD would have seen me get up something first go without issue. That's the trade-off.

I had a lot of fun in my LN106 Hilux with a rear LSD, tearing along winding gravel roads at 130km/h. A lot of those more familiar roads turned to tarmac bit by bit over a decade ago now. If they were still around though, I wouldn't attempt the same today with an open rear diff, I'd have to take it down a notch.

I think the above is a good synopsis and I agree with it.

The LSD in my '99 LX470 actually still works (246K miles) but it takes a lot of wheel spin to initiate function and I would say it is not very aggressive. I will not ever rebuild it. Just go with a selectable rear locker at some point.

 

[brian]

in an all wheel/full time 4wd drive cruiser, i'm not sure how you would tell an lsd is working or not?
i've been a big fan of auburns for decades...id put them in the old 4x4 trucks back when, and i have them in a rear of a 60 and the 40....the last pick up i ran had at least 150k miles on an auburn and it was still very much a limited slip....i still have that rear in a bucket somewhere.

 

[Malleus]

They aren't very aggressive and don't last very long despite being of robust construction.

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[BILT4ME]

If I had to choose between Auburn and Eaton Truetrac, I would choose Auburn.

I have exploded multiple Eaton Truetrac diffs because of 33" tires, wet pavement, and a 4 speed with V8 power. Going around a corner , catch an area of wet pavement from a sprinkler system, inside wheel spins up, locks the LSD, catches traction on dry pavement, and blows up the spiders inside.

They worked well in mud, but not so much if you actually have a wheel off the ground as @Nemesis1207 stated with rock crawling.

 

[MrMacdugal]

I removed my VC last week then cut it open. It's like a bunch of clutch plates that fluid is pushed through. However mine were all melted and seized together. I cant add a whole lot to the argument but hope this gave some info on the VC

 

[Dusten]

If I had to choose between Auburn and Eaton Truetrac, I would choose Auburn.

I have exploded multiple Eaton Truetrac diffs because of 33" tires, wet pavement, and a 4 speed with V8 power. Going around a corner , catch an area of wet pavement from a sprinkler system, inside wheel spins up, locks the LSD, catches traction on dry pavement, and blows up the spiders inside.

They worked well in mud, but not so much if you actually have a wheel off the ground as @Nemesis1207 stated with rock crawling.

Must be the carrier design.
My trutrac has survived slicks and 700hp and 4900lbs.

 

[BILT4ME]

Must be the carrier design.
My trutrac has survived slicks and 700hp and 4900lbs.

I blew up three of them in this half ton 4x4 (about 6200 LB) truck. 69 Chevy K10 w/ 360 bored, ported, polished, about 375 HP.

I went back to Eaton on it and tried to figure out what the deal was and they would never warranty and at that time a Detroit Locker was WAY too much money. but, in hindsight, a Detroit Locker would have prevented all of that.

I have always been hard on rear differentials. I think I'm a 7 rear diff's, two transmissions (one manual, one auto) and two engines.

 

[Dusten]

I blew up three of them in this half ton 4x4 (about 6200 LB) truck. 69 Chevy K10 w/ 360 bored, ported, polished, about 375 HP.

I went back to Eaton on it and tried to figure out what the deal was and they would never warranty and at that time a Detroit Locker was WAY too much money. but, in hindsight, a Detroit Locker would have prevented all of that.

I have always been hard on rear differentials. I think I'm a 7 rear diff's, two transmissions (one manual, one auto) and two engines.

I'd say it was carrier design. The rear end in my lightning is a 9.75 ring gear with 35 spline shafts. Both stock

My trutrac has been in the truck since 2009. It's the most common locker in the light ing community.

I wouldn't write then off because of one truck. That's for sure.

 

[LXDOC]

To your question.
Detroit True-trac for front diff
Auburn Pro series for the rear.
Both in 100k ago and still work.
Both are quiet.
True-trac can use Dino or Sunthetic no friction modifier needed.
Auburn recommends Dino and Ford friction modifier ( mine required 2 bottles to stop juddering from rear when reversing in tight turns).

 

[DUSTandRUST]

For those pondering the disappearance of LSD's on new cars...
My understanding, is it's due to stability control being offered on most passenger oriented 4WD's.
Unlike traction control, stability control needs independent braking on each wheel, which wouldn't work, with a decent LSD.
In Australia, Nissan dropped the LSD in the Patrols, replacing it with a locker, when some states mandated stability control on new passenger vehicles.
Some vehicles get lockers, some get fancy electronics that mimic a LSD, with fancy names like, Torque Vectoring.

 

[fatrap]

There are different types of LSDs some use clutches and others use helical gears. There are now several helical gear limited slips for this application. While there used to only be clutch setups like the Auburn. You can now get an 8" Eaton Truetrac and a 9.5" Nitro Helix. The helical gears will mean no more wearing out clutches and having a weak limited slip.

Do you have an LSD in your 80? I'm thinking about getting one, but don't know what to do for the front. What do you have on each end?

 

[fatrap]

To your question.
Detroit True-trac for front diff
Auburn Pro series for the rear.
Both in 100k ago and still work.
Both are quiet.
True-trac can use Dino or Sunthetic no friction modifier needed.
Auburn recommends Dino and Ford friction modifier ( mine required 2 bottles to stop juddering from rear when reversing in tight turns).

I don't see a Truetrac application for a Cruiser, front or rear. Where did you get yours? Part number?

oyota - Land Cruiser
1969 - 1999 40, 60, 70 Front Beam 9.5" 30 - 187C152A NEW 14212-1‡
Series
1990 - 2015 70 Series Front Beam 8" 30 - 187SL61B NEW 14211-1*
1990 - 1997 80 Series Front Beam 8" 30 - 187SL61B NEW 14211-1*
1996 - 2002 90 Series Front Independent 7.5" 27 - NEW 14218-1*
1998 - 2007 100 Series Front Independent - 30 - NEW 14214-1
1998 - 2007 105 Series Front Beam 8" 30 - 187SL61B NEW 14211-1*
2002 - 2009 120 Series Front Independent - 30 3.73 & Dn NEW 14219-1*
30 3.91 & Up NEW 14221-1*
2009 - 2018 150 Series Front Independent - 30 3.73 & Dn NEW 14219-1*
30 3.91 & Up NEW 14221-1*
2007 - 2018 200 Series Front Independent - 34 - NEW 14217-1*
1969 - 1999 40, 60, 70 Rear Beam 9.5" 30 - 187C152A
Series
C-Clip Only
1969 - 1999 40, 60, 70 Rear Beam 9.5" 30 - NEW 14212-1‡
Series
NON-C-Clip
1999 - 2015 70 Series Rear Beam 9.5" 32 - NEW 14213-1
1990 - 1997 80 Series Rear Beam 9.5" 30 - NEW 14212-1‡
NON-C-Clip
1996 - 2002 90 Series Rear Beam 8" 30 - 187SL61B 913A610 NEW 14211-1*
1998 - 2007 100 Series Rear Beam 9.5" 32 - NEW 14213-1
1998 - 2007 105 Series Rear Beam 9.5" 32 - NEW 14213-1
2002 - 2009 120 Series Rear Beam 8" 30 - 187SL61B 913A610 NEW 14211-1*
2009 - 2018 150 Series Rear Independent 8.2" 30 - NEW 14215-1*
2007 - 2018 200 Series Rear Beam 9.5" 32 - NEW 14213-1

 

[Dusten]

Do you have an LSD in your 80? I'm thinking about getting one, but don't know what to do for the front. What do you have on each end?

If you mean oem lsd don't wast your time.

 

[LXDOC]

Part numbers

Front Axle. Detroit Truetrac TT 913A612 LC Reverse Rotation Only

Rear Axle. Auburn Pro Series 542030

 

[LXDOC]

913A612 not listed in the current Eaton catalog.
Summit has it listed as special order and a ship date of 9/26/22 at 662.99.