60 series Full Float axle question

[konradjk]

Hi all,

I've been researching on adding a fully floating axle on my 62 this weekend and read a ton of threads etc, but am unable to find a definitive answer on a couple of questions. It appears that most of the mods out there focus on changing to the adapter plates and using front-end hubs and thus disc brakes, often adding either a caliper that allows for a parking brake (non-Toyota) or adding a driveshaft brake. There is some information that suggests that IF you wanted to keep the same drum brake set up (and thus the stock parking brake function and location) you could simply change the axles, hubs and associated bearings and seals from an FF axle (like Aussie ones) and change your existing North American 60 series axle to an FF axle.

I've seen FF axles go for thousands of $, but it seems to me that the parts that are different are not that difficult to obtain if the whole axle housing is exactly the same. For example, partsouq lists both the hubs, seals, bearings and such as available, unfortunately, the axle shafts are not - however custom ones are not that hard to get.

Does anyone have any first-hand experience on converting stock 60 series axles to FF but keeping the drum brake setup?

Konrad

 

[OSS]

I don't have experience with the conversion, but the 60 series FF rears are quite a bit different than the stock axles. You'd need to salvage parts off a FF to possibly convert, but then you'd have a FF. The 60 series FF axle shafts don't use C-clips in the differential to retain them. Also the pumpkin is welded shut on the back. No access. Also Toyota chose to use much smaller diameter axle shafts on the FF than the stock setup, possibly to allow them to twist with lockers instead of shear splines. Guessing.

From what ive read around here, the best FF option for a 60 series today is get an 80 series FF. Several guys here have done that.

 

[brian]

Also Toyota chose to use much smaller diameter axle shafts on the FF than the stock setup, possibly to allow them to twist with lockers instead of shear splines. Guessing.

.

they don't have to carry any weight.

 

[konradjk]

Yup, the smaller axles are because they are only designed to transmit torsional load not the weight of truck or load which is taken up by the axle housing now. I'm still not convinced that the axle housing is or needs to be different. Would love to hear from someone who has done one - I know TheWagonWay guy seems to have some experience as per his write up on his page. The 80 series I believe adds width and I don't want to change my track width. I'd like to stay as stock as possible.

 

[87CRUSR]

The 80 series I believe adds width and I don't want to change my track width. I'd like to stay as stock as possible.

Yes the 80 series axles are wider.
There are some complete sftermarket FF kits out there. Been a while since I looked.

 

[Willard]

Just do what I did and keep an eye on the classifieds. I picked up mine cheap enough with shipping and then rebuilt it.
It was out of a 60 series and thus a direct bolt-up.
The kits to change from Semi floating to FF just seems way to much work.

I bought mine for one main reason and that was to use an e-locker. Plus I really hate c-clipped axles ever since I broke one on my Bronco.

 

[red66toy]

I also swapped in a FF 60 series rear end under my FJ62. I got a used unit from Canada. All the drum brake parts are the same between the SF and FF. The housings are definitely different and it would not be easy to convert a SF housing to a FF I think. Seals and bearings are readily available and shared across other platforms. If you have your heart set on a FF, either keep hunting classifieds, especially in Canada where they are more common, or go the 80 series route.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

There is an FJ60 FF axle for sale now in the classifieds.

The question I have, is why do you want one? For the most part, most people are better off with a semifloat axle which needs less maintenance. If you off road a lot, then it's different and the FF is advantageous if you happen to break an axle shaft.

The down side that I see to FJ60 full float, is the lack of inner axle spares.

I have put 2 80 series rears in FJ60/62 and it is a solidly good swap. You gain a bit of width, your set up is identical to the thousands of 80s out there, and you get excellent rear disc brakes.

I would not bother converting an existing rear FJ60 axle to full float as you still have the non-existent spares problem.

 

[konradjk]

Gents, I'm not trying to get convinced out of one or justify why I want/don't want one. I was simply posing a question if anyone has ever done this, not just heard that it's difficult. Here are some facts I found: If you compare part numbers between my gas FJ62 and a 87-90 HJ61 with a 12HT and manual trans (Aussie VIN) that has an FF axle the part number for the housing is identical, despite what everyone thinks (see attached pictures - part in drawing is 42110 - which translates to p/n 4211060301 - notice that one drawing says semi-floating and the other says full floating). I keep reading about the interchangeability between the other parts (which are bolt on - hubs, brake parts, bearings etc.) and it just got me thinking out of curiosity. I tow quite a bit with my FJ62 and am in the parts gathering stage for a manual swap. I just rebuild the front axle and am thinking about rebuilding the rear so started looking for options and just like the FF for added strength.

Yes, for sure they can be found used but typically a premium or shipping is a killer.

No big deal, just thought I'd ask.

 

[OGBeno]

The axle housing part numbers are COMPLETELY different between a FF housing and a SF housing.

Trust me on this one.

 

[konradjk]

Alright. If the authority (Beno) says so I guess I have to believe it even thou I don't see different part numbers. I've never seen one in person so just going off documentation or photos.

 

[4Cruisers]

I see six different part numbers for the rear axle housing on AUS HJ61s with 12HTs and manual transmissions (BTW, all 5-speeds). I'm blindly assuming that three are for semi floating axles and three for full floating axles, but I may be wrong. One of the part numbers is 42110-60301.

 

[OGBeno]

This is what a Full floater looks like. You will see that the rear most portion of the axle housing opposite the ring and pinion is not removable and welded to the axle housing vs. the SF axle housing which has a removable cover. That alone would indicate they are different parts and, hence, different part numbers.

Notice the spindle. A SF axle housing has no spindle.

You can see here below the SF axle shaft side.... Looks different does it not vs. the FF above with the spindle?

And then you have here the inspection cover for the diff on the back side of the SF axle housing. A FF does not have this feature nor does it need one since there are no c-clips to take out to remove the axle shafts.

The reason you are having issues, in reality, is your inability to read the parts catalogs correctly.

When you pull up an FJ62 for the US market it will provide two part numbers and two different schematics for the rear axle housings.

42110-60193 is for a SF axle housing.
42110-60301 is for a FF axle housing.

How does one know that an FJ62 does not have a FF axle housing?

1. They never came to the North American market with that set-up.
2. You cannot install an OEM locker set-up in a SF axle housing. Lockers will always be in FF axle housings. Ergo, SF and FF cannot be the same part number.
3. The SF axle housings has no spindles.
4. The FF axle housings has no inspection cover.
5. They will have different gaskets for where the differential engages with the housing itself (notched out to accept the locker mechanism) and different length studs.

Does that make it clearer now?

 

[Willard]

Yes, for sure they can be found used but typically a premium or shipping is a killer.

Yes living in Canada I am sure the price for shipping out of the US for anything will be killer. Maybe ship to Blaine.
But you may be able to find one in Canada.

I bought mine out of Texas and all in with shipping, and the unit I am just under $1300. I find that reasonable.

The $$$ come into play with the rebuild.
3rd member
full rebuild kit
new backing plates
new drums
new wheel cylinders
new brakes shoes
new brake lines.

You can easily hit 2K. But then you basically have a fully rebuilt and new axle.

As @beno said the actual axle housing is not interchangeable aside from a complete replacement. But the 3rd members, brakes, backing plates, breather port, wheel cylinders and shoes are.
The main brake line is not the same (at least on mine it was not)

My front axle had just been rebuilt and my rear 3rd was just rebuilt so I kept the stock 3:70 gearing, knowing that I will rebuild my 4:11 later and put lockers in there. So you can save some $$ there.

The real beauty of going with a 60 unit is the direct bolt in factor. It is worth the hunt to find one.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

While not a direct bolt in, a $500 80 series rear axle gets you everything you want and better brakes. And if you're towing a trailer, the more powerful brakes might be a good thing.

But if you're dead set on this, I'd recommend buying the axle in the classifieds and bite the bullet on costs.

However, you might just consider driving what you have.

 

[konradjk]

Alright, now we are getting somewhere. @beno, thanks for the photos and VERY clear explanation and taking the time to do this. Huge help. I am not having any issues, was just curious and now understand that it's not possible. I had assumed incorrectly that the spindle can be bolted to an SF axle - that's where my question originally came from.

@Willard thanks for the input, sounds like this is basically what my options are. I think one usually starts off with trying to be clever and save a bit but eventually comes to realize that to get what you want you need to be realistic. Just look at my truck....paint, engine rebuild, interior etc etc.

@Cruiserdrew you are right, the extra brakes would be nice, I just didn't want a wider track and the headache of the e brake but might look into this. Again, the purpose was to settle the compatibility of the parts in my head.

thanks and goodnight all.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

@Cruiserdrew you are right, the extra brakes would be nice, I just didn't want a wider track and the headache of the e brake but might look into this. Again, the purpose was to settle the compatibility of the parts in my head.
thanks and goodnight all.

No ebrake headache at all. Use the FZJ80 series cable, which attaches directly to the FJ60 lever and routes/works just like the FJ60 cable.

The wider track is almost unnoticeable. If you run it with stock 80 series wheels, they have less offset and so the width gain is only about 2 inches per side. This does a nice job filling the wheel well without sticking out. I'm running stock 80 wheels, 255/85/16 tires and it gives a nice stock look.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Here is what i'm talking about:

And lots of advantages to an 80 axle, especially with the disc brakes and North American parts availability.

 

[konradjk]

@Cruiserdrew that looks awesome. Thanks for opening up another wormhole man.

 

[Willard]

Here is what i'm talking about:

View attachment 1756943


And lots of advantages to an 80 axle, especially with the disc brakes and North American parts availability.

That looks nice. The disk brakes are a bonus for sure and easy enough to setup. As for parts availability.Just an FYI my non NA FF is not a problem and parts are plentiful.