4wheel underground 3Link Build (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Noahrob
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- #122
Another successful test drive tonight, but there are a few issues...The springs are not even close to centered around the shock, they are bowed out...big time. They aren't just rubbing the shock body, they are getting hung up. In fact, even after the truck comes to a stop, the springs are still loaded, I can push the truck and unload them. I mean these things are clanking up a storm, not just rubbing, but smashing into the shock body.
Thougths? Feedback
Thougths? Feedback
4WheelUnderground
Suspension is EVERYTHING
Its not the shocks, its the springs. None the less, Chop has a point, its the low quality of the springs. Time for Eibachs.
I have eibachs on my foas and they do the same shiit.
They will eventually wear off the edges of things and get a little quieter.
Wait till them little shallow asss lower cups fall off. That will irritate ya too.
Sounds like you may have longer springs than you really need. what length are the shocks and what links are your first and second rate springs?
Edit: From looking at your picture your top springs are almost at coil bind. You would probably do better with a slightly heavier rate up top and perhaps a lower rate or shorter coil on bottom.
How much extension is left?
Chop, if you have problems with the lower cups falling out you probably need more preload on your springs or spring tenders..
The FOA's bottom cup is very similar to KING's.
Edit: From looking at your picture your top springs are almost at coil bind. You would probably do better with a slightly heavier rate up top and perhaps a lower rate or shorter coil on bottom.
How much extension is left?
Chop, if you have problems with the lower cups falling out you probably need more preload on your springs or spring tenders..
The FOA's bottom cup is very similar to KING's.
4WheelUnderground
Suspension is EVERYTHING
You are right FOA and King and Sway A Way use the same design type for the lower cup.
Noahs 16" lower spring is not causing the upper springs to deform. It doesn't matter that the lower is a 16" on a 14" shock. But I will agree that the upper is almost at bind. Which would suggest that the manufacturer has to many coils in the spring to get said rate and should try using a few less. Besides, changing his spring rates would also make me have to change his shock valving. I run the same rates he is and its fine on mine.
I would do as he is doing and contact both FOA and Blue Coil and ask WTF???
What can also work and Chop I dont know if you've tried this or not, but the coils should face opposite directions. What I mean is each coil has a flat spot both top and bottom. If you turn each coil so that the top flat spot of the lower spring is sitting 180* from the lower flat spot of the upper coil, it will help to cancel this kind of deformation. No i didn't make that up, many "a" pro use this method too.
4WheelUnderground
Suspension is EVERYTHING
If the lower spring buck or cup is following of you need to either perload the spring or buy a help spring and third rate slider so this stops happening.
Just an FYI
I never implied that the lower spring was causing the upper spring to deform. Actually I figured that it was the lower spring deforming and making the noise instead of the upper.
Is it the upper spring that is deforming? on extension/compression?
He is running a dual rate coil setup. That "initial rate" is based on the top coil and the bottom coil together. It looks like he only has about an inch before the upper coil bind (or the second rate kit hits the limiter) at which point the shock is a single rate. Was this done on purpose? Honestly, IMHO, swapping out the springs is the answer. Go for a slightly higher spring on the upper and a slightly lower rate on the lower. That will give you more "initial" rate (shock travel wise) and keep the coil from binding right off the bat and you can keep the valving that you currently have in there. It kinda sucks, but coilovers are all about shock tuning. They take some work, but will perform much better in the end because of it.
The loading issue is very common on coilovers. That is why sway bars are so common to keep the rigs level from one side to the other.
- Thread starter
- #131
Here you can see the coils when the rate is removed, also that the springs are rotated correctly and finally that they are waayy bowed out...sounds like there are two opinions here, first that these springs are too light or secondly, they suck. Thoughts and feedback welcome
4WheelUnderground
Suspension is EVERYTHING
Here is a copy and paste from the Poly Performance web site regarding Eibach springs. Look at the red text
Description:
•Ultra-Lightweight for Reduced Unsprung Mass
•Maximum Deflection in Combination with Smallest Block Heights
•Exceptional Block Resistance and Durability
•Precision Tolerances - The Tightest in the Industry
•Precision Planparallel and Square End Configurations Under Unloaded and Loaded Conditions to ± Degree
•Lowest Side Loads with Load Center Ideally Located Relative to Spring Axis
•Highest Linearity and Guaranteed Rate Consistency Within 2% Of Advertised Rate
•Each Spring Individually Tested and Rated
•Eibach Springs Lifetime Warranty
Description:
•Ultra-Lightweight for Reduced Unsprung Mass
•Maximum Deflection in Combination with Smallest Block Heights
•Exceptional Block Resistance and Durability
•Precision Tolerances - The Tightest in the Industry
•Precision Planparallel and Square End Configurations Under Unloaded and Loaded Conditions to ± Degree
•Lowest Side Loads with Load Center Ideally Located Relative to Spring Axis
•Highest Linearity and Guaranteed Rate Consistency Within 2% Of Advertised Rate
•Each Spring Individually Tested and Rated
•Eibach Springs Lifetime Warranty
Look back at the pic of the king shocks. look where the dual rate slider is at extension. It's right at the base of the shock body. By doing that, you balance the upper and lower springs as a pair. Instead of having a lower spring that is too long and distorts. As far as quality, even Chop said that his Eibacks do the same thing. I'd be he probably has the same problems. The lower coil is too long for the shock and is the wrong rate, so it distorts.
4WheelUnderground
Suspension is EVERYTHING
Yes, and I too have Eibachs, and they dont do that. I even have a 16" on the bottom. And the same rates too. I was also the lead sales men a GenRight for 5 months. I worked with the owner Tony very closley. I sold about 3 pairs of coilovers every week. The springs rates most often sold for the valving type was a 200/250. Even while on a 14" or 16". We never had this problem because we used KING coils. Not cheap crappy "Blue Coil".
IT is not the spring rates. It is the quality of spring. While at GenRight we ran plenty of 200/200 on 16" coilovers. And those never did what Noahs are doing either.
As for where the secondary spring rate stop is located on a coilover, by moving it up like the picture has it (which is for advertisment purposses only) you completely take away the purpose of having it there to begin with. Moving it up and not using that collar which acts like a progressive rate, is to not utilize one attribute that a coilover gives you. GenRight also ran that stop 1" about the lower springs. Noahs is at 1.5"s if he listened to me.
IT is not the spring rates. It is the quality of spring. While at GenRight we ran plenty of 200/200 on 16" coilovers. And those never did what Noahs are doing either.
As for where the secondary spring rate stop is located on a coilover, by moving it up like the picture has it (which is for advertisment purposses only) you completely take away the purpose of having it there to begin with. Moving it up and not using that collar which acts like a progressive rate, is to not utilize one attribute that a coilover gives you. GenRight also ran that stop 1" about the lower springs. Noahs is at 1.5"s if he listened to me.
Well then, you obviously have everything in order and will solve the issue shortly. Enjoy.
I gotta ask this. Why would you run a dual rate coilover only on one rate?
4WheelUnderground
Suspension is EVERYTHING
That wasn't my choice, and I dont know why he did it. It never made any sense to me either. All I will say it that his rates and shock valving worked very well together.
For what its worth, I wasn't trying to sound like an arse. Sorry. But I've done this more times than I can count with more than one spring manufacturer.
If it sounded like I was bitting your head off I apologize. It wasn't intended. From what you've said above I can tell you've had experience with this stuff and more than others.
You are right on a few points, longer spring will deflect more and softer ones will too, Im only saying these rates and lengths shouldn't do this if the springs are made correctly. That was all I was trying to say.
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Nope I have a long ass 100 on top that almost at coil bind sitting on top of a 250 bottom. My dual rate slider is about an inch off the stop at ride height.
Basicly giving me an inch of easy up travel then the bottom spring ramps it up quickly while the long soft top coil gives me tons of WEIGHTED droop not just a shock/tire falling off of a heavy not drooping coil.
But this is for my driving style on a rig with leafs at the other end.
And I probably have 20-30 extra coils hanging around here to fine tune setups before buying new springs on customer rigs.
Trying to plan/make a perfect setup in one shot is too time consuming and a headache. I can build, swap and fine tune, faster than most guys can order the "perfect" springs and still not get it the first time.
because you want the rate to change at the crossover.
what length and rates are you running on your springs?
