3B Death Rattle (1 Viewer)

[seatosummit]

At the very least, it is looking like I will need new valves, new precup, new piston and accompanying parts, and gaskets.

Took pictures to a machine shop today and the guy there said he wouldn't even touch the thing... he was concerned about the section of cylinder sleeve that appears to be punched. Take a look at the photo:

As far as the head is concerned, it doesn't appear to be comped up. So do I just need valves, valve seats and a precup?

Thanks,

Austin

 

[doug720]

I think the sleeve is dead!

The sleeve is proud of the block deck and the head squeezes the gasket to make the seal. I don't see how that can happen with out a new sleeve...Sorry

It looks like the block needs a good decking also?

 

[seatosummit]

Doug-

I take your point about the head needing to create a nice seal, but it looks like the head gasket seal goes around the pre-cup which may seal things enough? Or does the lip on the sleeve need to be level all the way around the cylinder to make a seal?

A

 

[amaurer]

The precup sits on top of the head gasket. The gasket is part of what helps hold it into the head.

Your precup got loose and started to rattle. As it moved it wore a perfect hole in the head gasket, until the cup then slid out a bit and contacted the ridge of the sleeve. Then it wore down the sleeve lip, and probably some of the block as well. It probably was loose for a while before it finally cracked and destroyed the piston.

The ridge/lip of the sleeve protects the head gasket from the bulk of the hot gas in the cylinder.

You absolutely need a new sleeve. You may need a new block depending on how deep that wear mark goes.

 

[seatosummit]

Great explanation! But not such great news...

I was hoping to salvage the engine for bit longer, mostly as an educational undertaking-- though seems as though the work and $ involved is quickly running up the cost of the lesson...

Probably going to start parting out components here in the new future, and starting a fund for a new power plant.

A

 

[gerg]

It must have run like that for a while. I'm surprised it didn't throw a rod to be honest. That's getting up there for one of the worse ones I've seen still running. Sorry it suck, but at least you've made a good choice to seek another engine. Trying to piece this one together would be expensive and frustrating.

 

[seatosummit]

What makes you think that it ran like that for awhile? The fused aluminum to the piston?

It honestly was driving just fine, with adequate power, etc. until the very end, at which point a very abrupt shaking began that eventually lead to it stalling out at high way speed (all went down within about 15 seconds).

It ran for about a grand total of 45 seconds thereafter, including the video I shared with you guys early in the thread.

It did however spew white smoke a little longer than normal the morning before I started my journey... all a bit of a mystery.

I know of a B engine for $1000 that I might snatch up, which would make for easy plug and play swap. I am interested in exploring more adventurous options with Isuzu, Mercedes or otherwise, given the longer.

 

[amaurer]

It would take many hours for the rattling precup to wear through the HG and into the block and sleeve. That appears to have happened well before the cup actually broke into pieces and fell into the cylinder.

Several people on this forum have pulled the head to find precups that were loose in their sockets, but had not yet broken. It happens.

 

[seatosummit]

Makes me wish I had just pulled the head a few months prior.

Is there some flaw in the design of the pre-cups that makes them particularly susceptible to falling/cracking? Are replacement pre-cups designed to mitigate this risk? I obviously am not the first to experience this, and unfortunately likely won't be the last...

 

[amaurer]

The precups are a weakness of the 3B. They're in the hottest part of the cylinder and are a different material than the head, which creates a high thermal stress environment. They're known to fatigue and crack and fail in a variety of ways.

No matter how well built an engine is there will always be something that is the weakest of the components. The 3B is a good engine, but the precups and the head are perhaps merely good instead of great.

Replacement high nickel alloy precups are available that are more robust, it is said.

 

[gerg]

It remains to be seen if they are more robust, but they are way cheaper which makes changing them more frequently an option most people could do. Sort of like an every 200k job. As a guess that is. You can get a set now for 130$ landed vs 300 each which I've heard they cost from Toyota.

 

[seatosummit]

Interesting info, guys.

For the price, I certainly would have gone through the effort of replacing at the arbitrary 200k mark (that happened some 40k ago) in retrospect.

While I have your guys attention, what kind of recommendations are out there for the next diesel power plant?

Like I said, have access to a cheap B, but I am not sure how short this will fall from my expectations in terms of power. I hear they take kindly to turbos though...

Also interested in Isuzu, Mercedes, Cummins options, given the scarcity (and price) of more powerful and modern Toyota options.

 

[niffa]

12ht all the way. I know they are expensive but great too, changing engine manufacturer WILL bring more headaches over staying toyota, which will probably outway the cost effectiveness of going to another brand of engine also

 

[doug720]

Lot's of Isuzu swaps here on mud, including at least 3 current ones, check the diesel section for 2 and one in the 60 area.

I have been very happy with mine, as have every other one I have seen or read about. Good engines with good power, easy to find, parts at any Isuzu or GM dealer here in the US at quite reasonable prices, and they fit well too!

Mine is below, let me know of you have any questions.

Bummer on the 3b...

 

[cruisedeisel]

Fancy the straw trick eh! theres lots of rusty cruisers with 3bs going for under 2000 up here in canada. if you want one i can resource. PM me if interested.

I had the same precup issue, sucks but what doesn't kill ya just makes you stronger.

 

[gerg]

Yeah I'd connect with some of us up here to get you a donor.

 

[seatosummit]

Guys-

Casually looking for donor rigs in the West. Any recommended resources beyond craigslist/mud for Canada? I heard you all have some additional classifieds of some sort.

Thanks,

Austin

 

[gerg]

I would search craigslist for fraser valley, Vancouver, Victoria, nanaimo, comox, campbelriver, Prince George etc. I can guarantee you will find a suitable donor in a few months with regular checking. Last one I got was a daily driver from 150 miles away and the guy drove it to my house for 1300$. That one had a totally destroyed interior complete with piss jugs, but a great drive train. Was a blessing.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

I blew up my motor a little over a year and a half ago - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/is-it-bad-to-find-metal-in-the-oil-pan.662455/#post-8136412. I was in a hurry to get it back up and running, so I got a motor (and 5 speed tranny and power steering ) from EBI in Vancouver. I know I could have found something cheaper if I would have had the time. However, going that route, I didn't have to deal with customs or dismantling a rusted out cruiser. It worked well for me. Might be worth it to give Steve a call and see what he can do for you.

 

[gerg]

That is true. Would be tons more simple. I've dealt with Steve and he's a stand up guy. His stuff isn't cheap, but peace of mind is worth a lot.
g